How to Prepare Your Child for University: The Teen view on Friends, Safety, Study, Money and Freshers Week.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

What can we parents do to prepare ourselves and our young adults for university after all these years of having them close to home? I call them young adults, but they still are babies, really. I'm Rachel Richards, and you're listening to Parenting Teenagers Untangle, the audio hug for fearless parents, where we learn to fear less and wonder more. And today I'm joined in the studio by my eldest team Phoebe, who's on her summer break after that first year of university, to talk about everything we parents need to know to prepare ahead. Welcome Phoebe. Thank you. We're going to talk about how to make friends, how to manage the workload, what helps and what doesn't. And it's not actually my idea. Lovely longtime listener Bernadette wrote to Because she has a son who's about to go, and if she's thinking this, thousands of other parents are going to be thinking the same thing. So it's always helpful when I have your suggestions. So thank you for that. Now, Phoebe, I think one of the big things that people really worry about is how do you make friends in your first week at university?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

It's it it is a tough one. I think for me I had gone to um an offer holiday before and I had met some people there. So I I did already know I wasn't going in completely blind.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So Phoebe's at Oxford, so I've got to say this is going to be a different experience from most people in certain ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, I no, although I am aware that other universities do have certain open days and things like that. So I would recommend obviously if you can find or or you know, they set up group chats beforehand, things like that. That's one of the things that Oxford did as well. But I I I know that other universities do this, um, where they kind of try to arrange group meetups and things like that beforehand. And I also went to one of those um separately. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Which was nerve-wracking, but it was really a good idea, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

It really was. And even though I didn't stay in contact with many of the people who I met, it just gave me that confidence boost that I could meet people who I did get on with and and liked beforehand. So I would recommend taking any opportunity that you can to encounter people uh who you know are you're going to be with um at the university. But yeah, but the first week is very nerve-wracking, and even though I did sort of know some people, I still had those I still I was such a bundle of nerves when I showed up. Um and obviously it is different depending on every university what Freshers Week looks like. And we had quite a uh regimented Freshers

Freshers’ Week at Oxford vs Other Universities

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Week. Did you?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

When you say regimented, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, can you remember it was my birthday that week and I had I had an hour for lunch that you took me out for, and then I had to go back and I had all of these. Well, what were they doing? Um it was kind of induction things, you know, um consent workshops and things like that. Really exciting freshers events. But you also had something about free speech and it's not a good thing. Yeah, it was yeah, they were, and I'm I'm not sure, it's probably very different depending on the university that you go to. Oxford isn't known for its night life, I have to be completely honest.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So that's so different to my experience of it. In fact, when I think back to my freshest week, it just seemed to be I wasn't a drinker really, but it just seemed to be a lot of people getting quite drunk and just roaming around the streets.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I mean, we did do that too. Okay. And what about sort of signing

Freshers’ Fair & Trying New Activities

SPEAKER_00 3:22

up for things?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, so there will always be a freshest fair. Um, and I would say literally, even if it's the last thing that you would want to do or that you'd ever show any interest in, just do it anyway. Because if if it's if it's a hilarious experience, you know, if you sign up to a cappella and it's ridiculous and you can't sing, it's a funny anecdote, you know? Yes. Just I I would say sign up to anything um that catches your eye. That can also be something, like it's a good way of meeting people. You just want to maximise your touch points, basically. Yeah. Um, because you might meet someone else who's done the exact same thing and who you can actually laugh at the experience with. Yeah. And and then that could be your reference to the case. And you might meet some lifelong friends. Yeah, exactly. Or you might find that you really enjoy a new activity that you've taken up um and and you know, start a lifelong passion.

Regrets from Freshers’ Week & Taking It Too Seriously

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Were there any regrets from Freshers Week? Um, I that's a good question. Um, well, I got quite sick with Fresh Fresh's flu quite early on. Um and I didn't even go out that hard. Um but I I think I just took everything a bit too seriously. I wish I yeah, I wish I'd just gone with the flow a bit more. Um Why do you think you took it too too seriously? Because I think because I was so nervous and it was such a new environment, which is it's quite it's easy to say in hindsight, but you know, when you're like it's so overwhelming, you don't know where you are, you're still settling into your circumstances, you've got a new room, you know, you don't really know how everything works, you don't know what you're allowed to do, which sounds strange, but coming from a school environment and going to the university is completely different. There are very few rules compared to what you know, and I used I like I quite like rules, so I was like, I don't know what I can do. Um anything. Yeah, exactly. I was like, wow, this is overwhelming. Um but yeah, so I think were I to do it again, I would just kind of throw myself into everything. Which I did do, but I I don't think I'd I would do it to a greater extent.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I remember you didn't sign up for certain things, or you signed up for things and then you weren't able to go because you were got sick, and then you were saying, Well, I've missed the boat, and I was like, no, no, go anyway. For example, rowing, which you'd never done before, and you thought, oh no, I've missed, you know, everybody else knows each other, they've all been training, I've missed it. Yeah. But I just said go, and it was good, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:52

It w yeah, it was fantastic. I mean, I I've been rowing for a year now. Um I haven't gone from nothing. Um yeah. Uh and and that was so lovely. And yeah, they were very, very supportive of anyone. I I think that's the whole thing, is that a lot of these it's all student run. I mean, at any university, all of these kind of, you know, clubs and things, they're all societies, they're all students. Yes, and they want to recruit people. Yes. So if you go into it with that mindset that, you know, obviously you want to meet people, but also they want you there, um, just show up and and you know, and even if you're a late starter, it doesn't really matter. People will be very welcoming.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

So and if you have a passion, obviously not the very when you first get there, but there's also an opportunity to have your own club doing the thing that you're extractive, it doesn't exist. Yeah. So that's a wonderful thing, it's quite a creative environment.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah, we had um our our college started a bouldering club, which is really yeah, kind of out of left field, but uh it's very popular, the climbing climbing club, and they go every week and it's great for socials. They run pub quizzes, and yeah, so there's a lot of you know extra, and you can just show up to anything even if you're not actually doing like I remember one girl inviting me to some netball socials, and I don't play netball, and she was like, Yeah, no, it doesn't really matter, you can just come along. I love that. I love that.

Building Friendships and Not Getting Stuck in One Group

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah. So talking about friends, how was it when you very first got there?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Um, it was it was very stressful, which I think is to be expected. Like, no one finds it easy. Even like this is speaking f uh uh as someone who kind of had a ready-made friend group. I mean, it wasn't really, but it was like I had already met these people, we had, you know, spent some time together, and even then I probably spent the first term feeling a bit, you know, uh out of my own skin. Yes, like I just wasn't was not comfortable. Um, and there was so much kind of shuffling around. I would, you know, find myself all nights out with random friend friendship groups, um and you're just kind of trying to see who you work best with. So I would say in hindsight, like this group that I made friends with, I am still very close with. You know, they are my closest friends in my college, they are lovely. Um but I think because I already knew them, it did close me off to other groups or you know, meeting other people. And I would would say that actually staying open is really important because then you know you can be more not necessarily selective, but you can just kind of you know filter through different people.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Um But you did actually make an effort to then step out once we realised that that was happening, that you're sort of feeling like they're lovely people, but they're not necessarily a hundred percent comfortable to be with because we are many different people. Yeah. So what happens is you'll find groups who fulfil one particular need. Yeah, exactly. And then you may feel that you would like to expand yourself in other ways, and you need friends for that too. So how did you extend your friendships?

Building Friendships and Not Getting Stuck in One Group

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Um, yeah, so that's exactly right. I I kind of I loved, you know, these are again, like I say, they're my closest friends, but um they were I became very aware that if I became too dependent on this particular friend group, then um I don't know, like if they were my only friends and I became closed off to other things, then I would be limiting myself. I think it's very important. Um and I didn't want to, you know, shut myself off. So in my second term, I made a conscious effort to go and sort of branch out. And um uh I actually there was one girl that I met, um, you know, it's it was basically just saying yes to things, so I went along to um this prees and I was just chatting to random people and I was, you know, mentally saying, I am going to talk to, you know, random strangers, and I, you know, I like I I want to, you know, get people's details and things like that. And there was this other other girl who I had been following on on Instagram for a while, who was also at the university, and I saw her, and we kind of we saw each other across the room and we were like, Oh my god, hi! You know, we're finally meeting in person. Let's get coffee. She said that. She said, Let's get coffee. I really want to get coffee. Uh that's a great one. Yeah, it is a really great one, and it's very casual. Um, and and so we did, we met up for coffee, and we've been friends ever since. It was, you know, like an immediate, you know, we we instantly liked each other. And then through her, I met several other people, and it's just kind of it it's the follow-through where you know, because we're s ever I think everyone does this. You you know, you'll meet someone, you quite like it a function, you're like, let's get coffee, and then you never follow through. And actually taking it to that next step is already advancing that that relationship. And then and then if you meet for coffee and you're like, actually, this is someone whom, you know, maybe I like them, but I don't see us being uh, you know, best friends, then that's okay. I think that's also something that I realize is that just because I don't see someone as my closest friend doesn't mean that that I like I need to make a drastic decision about having them in my life. Like I can still sort of have someone in my circle but not be super close with them. I think I've I you know before university I viewed friendships in quite a binary way. I had my best friends and then I didn't really have lots of other contacts because you know I just have my close circle. But now I know a lot of people and have lots of like mutuals and friends and things like that. And it's really nice because you can just see people around.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yes, and if somebody that somebody's doing something you don't particularly want to do, you've got to do it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

It's a really healthy way of looking at life. Um, this other girl who I met through um the one I followed on Instagram, we'd only met once, and then I uh mentioned this event that my college hosts called Prosecco and Pals, and she just said, Can I come? Fantastic. And I was like, uh yeah. And obviously I was a bit like, oh, okay, I don't know how this is going to go at all because she's not necessarily friends with any of my friends in college, so this might be interesting, but like actually, why not? And I brought her along and we had the best time, and again, I'm very good friends with her now. So I think it is I think just inviting people to random functions, going to random functions, not taking it too seriously, I think, is just a great way of meeting people, and then the follow-through just inviting someone for coffee, just things like that. Small um because my other friend at Cambridge actually has been doing that a lot, and um, and she's made so many friends do it like through that, just saying, come and go for coffee. It's like dating people, yes, you know, almost, but but for friendships, it's great.

Parties, Drinking, Drugs & Peer Pressure

SPEAKER_00 12:42

And you mentioned proseco and drink. Let's be honest, there are drugs. To what extent do you have to be doing these things and how much pressure is there to be drinking, doing drugs, vaping, all that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah. Well, I will say uh like there's every single kind of person at university. So there are some people who are absolutely teetotal, don't don't touch alcohol. There are some people who who drink all the time. That was the same when I was at university. Like there's a there's a wide range. Um and actually I would say that, you know, your friend group does kind of it doesn't determine what you do, but obviously you gravitate towards similar people. But you know, a lot of I you know, saying that, um, a lot of people in my group do drugs, for example. I I don't touch them um just because I don't feel the need and uh, you know, I that's not my thing. Um, but actually I find it very easy going out on a night out with them and just not, you know, not doing it. And you know, so the thing is you can't escape alcohol and drugs when you're at university. It's going to be around you all the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So, what are your top tips for parents to teach their kids about how to say no? Because I think one of the things your sister said this recently. She said, you know, it was so lovely to go out with some friends who weren't drinking because she said there's often a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, there is a lot of indulge. So, what would you say is a really good tip? Okay, well, I've done this at function, so for example, prosecond pals. So, prosecond pals, just for context, you pay a fee, and then for the and it's a small fee, and then for the entire night you get unlimited prosecco. But he, I think he had 16 glasses or something, and they actually refused to serve him anymore. And then uh I just remember him running around the the quad. So that's kind of the the context. But I I don't like getting extremely drunk at things like that, and I don't really like prosecco. And I literally just bought my own drink, you know, as in I got some um I literally had flavoured water, like brilliant, but yeah, you can bring soft drinks, whatever. And then, you know, I had a couple of glasses of prosecco, and then I just started filling my own glass, and when everyone else is that drunk anyway, they don't really notice at all. Um, some people will say, Oh, let's go and get another glass, and then you just go with them, get a glass and leave it on the side, or you just fill your own drink up. It's really not hard.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

You don't need to make it.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

You can be really subtle, and so you don't even, yeah, you don't even need to say, Oh, I'm not drinking, I'm not drinking, you know. You can do other things, but equally that you know, at these events, the university usually does tend to provide other alternatives because they understand that people won't be drinking.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So

Clubbing Without Drugs & Coping with Pressure

SPEAKER_00 15:15

I would do that. What I thought was really interesting was that you've been out clubbing and a lot of people take drugs clubbing. Yes. And you didn't grow up in that environment at all. And so you actually are very happy going out dancing all night, not taking any drugs, and they're all quite shocked because I think if you've grown up in an environment where you've got used to drinking, you've got used to taking drugs quite early on, you're gonna be scared to go out and because you'll think I won't have a good day. Well, this is the well, this is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

So some of my friends weren't actually taking drugs before they came to university, but they I think they were very open to it. Um, that's very much the case. And you don't have to go far to find them, basically. And yeah, and then they started taking them. But also that it's really expensive. Like hearing from my friends, I'm like, well, you could buy a lot of nice things.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Well, you know, I'd much rather spend it on food. Didn't they? It's so funny because somebody raised an eyebrow when you came back with a lovely mark. Yeah, I went to MS. Very nice brand in the UK of really lovely food. And she came back back with her MS bag, and they were all like, What are you spending your money on that for?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, and then the next night they're dropping 60 pounds on drugs. Um that's so much money. But yeah, I actually I feel really not necessarily even proud, just kind of thrilled when I can sustain a night out and not have taken any substances and then, you know, be dancing just as well and have just as much energy as someone who's doing drugs. I love that. Um like I get a kick out of that because I'm like, oh my god, go me. I'm doing so well, I'm having so much fun, I don't need that. So it's like I I can enjoy myself, I can have just as much fun without doing anything. I love that. Um and so I would recommend it actually. It's very it's really fun. Even a sober night out, yeah, it's it's great. And then it also means that you don't have to deal with the hangover the next

Academic Step Up: From School to Oxford Workload

SPEAKER_01 17:03

day.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Well, this is the other thing. So let's talk about um the workload and homesickness, and because universities differ. Oxford is at the extreme end of the workload. Which we knew before you when you were applying, I said, darling, you do realize you could go to a different university and have a lot more fun and work less hard and still come out with a great degree. And you were like, No, no, no, I want to go here. Yeah, how was that first term?

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Um, the first term was very hard. I think uh it was a massive step up from A levels, and obviously it depends on your like your course, your university. Um, but I for me especially it felt a like a lot. Um when you say it's a big step up, what do you mean? Well, the sort of what they're asking from you, um, like their expectations, and also I don't know, at school you get very used to being told that you're great. Well, at least I was, um, you know, and then you kind of get thrown into a completely different environment where everyone is great and and actually you're not that good. Um and and suddenly your essays, which at a level were, you know, considered fantastic, are now really poorly written.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

They weren't giving you grades to start with.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

And also they don't, you know, they don't tell you how to do these things, they expect you to learn yourself. Um, and so you learn, yeah, they don't grade you, they just give you feedback. And so initially that was quite a hard pill to swallow because it was like, right, so I'm not being told I'm good and I'm just being shown all of the criticism of how bad it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

But you know that's the creme de la creme of teaching. Yeah, no, no, exactly. Rather than giving grades, because people don't look at the feedback if they see the grades.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

No, but if you give feedback, then you're forced to But also you're forced to confront it, like the um for anyone who doesn't know, Oxford has a tutorial system, so you uh it's two-on-one, sometimes even one-on-one, uh tuition, and you're with the leading academics in the world, basically, who are who are your personal tutors and you see them every week, and your tutorial is basically sitting down and talking through your essay.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So there's nowhere to hide.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

There is nowhere to hide, everything's exposed, and they tend to gravitate towards what you did wrong. Because that's what's worth talking about, right? So it's often an hour or two hours of of discussion and trying to defend your points or having really humiliating discussions about why you wrote something which you can't even back up. So yeah, it was it was a massive uh adjustment for me. Um and my first term was quite hard because I do tend to put quite a bit of pressure on myself. But I think a lot of it was actually about learning how to learn. And because, you know, gradually I became more of a you know, I spent seven hours working on something and it just wouldn't be quality work at all.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

And you were trying to read all the things that they were giving you, and then you realised that that's not the best way to um not at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

And so I think

Learning How to Learn: Reading, Essays & Deadlines

SPEAKER_01 20:06

better. Well, originally I was trying to read every word, digest everything. Well, now I start with the essay title and go, what am I looking for? That's not useful for long term. You know, for my exams, I'm going to have to go back over everything, which is why I'm quite stressed at the moment. Um but but you know, you just go, okay, what is the task at hand? I'm going to skim read this and look for key things which I will find useful. Um, maybe note down things that are interesting as well. And also not taking note of everything. Yeah. You know, I don't, you know, uh unless it's actually useful information, I I just need to write down the core points.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And that first term you called me a lot. One particular night that would be the night before your essay had to be in, which was very hard, wasn't it? Yeah. Because you'd call me and go, Mummy, I don't know. I'm I'm I'm not getting this essay written. I don't know what I'm doing. What what helps and what doesn't help? That's a really good question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

I I was literally, I would work into the early hours of the morning um doing those essay deadlines. Really, really awful. I think organisation, definitely. I think also a lot of that was perfectionism. I would get really stressed if I didn't have an amazing new take on something or a really bright idea about, you know. And sometimes you just don't have that. Sometimes, sometimes you're just going to have to write a mediocre essay and you have to accept that. And I was not accepting that. Yes. I really want to get it in.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah. Which is more important than I had that with journalism when I first started out, and I would be thinking, no, no, no, this isn't good enough. And my editor said to me, Rachel, it it goes to black if we don't have your piece in, so you have to do, you have to deliver something.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. And and that's the thing, is that they'd much rather you submit something. Something than I mean, not there is no excuse for submitting nothing. Because then it just looks like You haven't worked hard enough. Yes. Um, so yeah, I would say removing the perfectionism. Um, I mean, this is obviously this is very specific to people who are working with hard deadlines because I do know that a lot of universities now they do work with coursework, which is slightly different. I mean, those are also deadlines, but that's kind of more progressive work over time. But even with that, like you do want to be like pacing yourself and not being perfectionist about things. Letting go of that was a really hard lesson. It's quite difficult to know how much reading to do for an essay and you know, just things

How Parents Can Support During High-Stress Deadlines

SPEAKER_01 22:36

like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

But And what about what about me as a parent supporting you? What was good and what wasn't good? That's a good question. What would my essays specifically or anything, anything in that first term? Um because you were homesick at certain points and it was just exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah, I think well you could tell when I need really needed you and you would offer to come and visit me. I think that was really helpful because coming home was is quite a long journey, and that especially for me, at least in that environment, that was extremely stressful. I think the environment changes is quite a big thing when you're starting out at university as well, because you spend so much time trying to settle in. So any big transitions are quite difficult. Yeah, yeah. Like I came into London for a f a concert once, and that like gave me a mental breakdown because I was like, I'm not meant to be leaving university and I have to do all this work and dah dah da, and I can't take a night out, but you know. Um so it's better if the parent comes to the child if they think if they feel I suggested it to you, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

I said, Would you like me to come and see you? And I just took you out for lunch. You didn't want too much.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a coup just a short two. And that was really lovely. Sometimes you do need someone to kind of pull you out of your of your hole almost.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Do you remember you would be writing an essay and be going, I don't know how to do this, I can't do this. And I'd say, right, um, you now have to do an hour, and then I'm gonna call you back, but you've got to sit down and start writing. Yeah. Oh my god, that word did that help the word card.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Like, I just need to write 400 words. Um, yeah, no, it really did help. It really, really did help.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Um because sometimes you've just got to start. Yeah. And you would be panicking about it, and having someone just say, Right, you have to do this, and I will check in with you every single time. You you just got cracking. Yeah.

Sleep, Burnout & All-Nighters

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Oh, I think another thing, sleep, your sleep will be absolutely messed up in your first year. And I mean, especially my first term and also last term. Routine is really important, but also it's very difficult to do that um when you're going out and everything. And that's also something. And that's the hard thing to balance, right? Yeah. But obviously, sleep is very important. But I think something I also learned was that actually it's worth, you know, even if you've got a horrible deadline the next day, it's worth going to bed early and waking up early than trying to force something. Like, because I was working until 3 a.m., 4 a.m. And just, you know, you get to a certain point of exhaustion and and also just burnout, where like the words would start moving around my page. Genuinely, I would like my eyes would go blurry, I couldn't really, I couldn't think straight, you know, because you feel drunk when you're that tired. Um and had I just stepped away, like you need that kind of distance from something, and and then looking at it with fresh eyes. So actually going to bed and just starting a fresh, even you know, I would go to bed at what, like 12 and then wake up at five, and that's still not great for sleep at all. But then at least I'd have that separation and I'd, you know, work in the morning. So I think that was really helpful as well. Um

Using University Resources & Libraries

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Do you feel like you use the resources effectively? Were resources what for resources? I don't know, the libraries, the help that was there. Again, this is very specific to Oxford, but um the libraries are absolutely fantastic. I mean, this is this is one way for anyone who's thinking about consider like applying to Oxford or Cambridge, Oxford really trumps Cambridge. I'm sorry. Um just even in the library like facilities, we have so many places you can go and work. It's incredible because I've heard my friends at Cambridge they always refer to I think it's called the University Library or something, and that's open to the public as well. Oh isn't that insane? Whereas we have exclusive access, exclusive access to um the Radcam, the Bodleian, like these um incredible libraries that no one else will see ever, unless you go on a guided tour. So um, but yeah, I definitely made the most of that. I think it's uh you know, and obviously it again it depends on your university, whether it's um campus or city life or something like that. But it's so nice just kind of like traveling around and experiencing different So you're not in your just in your exactly oh I can't work in my room. I've realized that like even the late night essays, that was not good in my room. Yeah, yeah, it's just crying at my desk.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

And what um what productivity hacks actually

Productivity Hacks That Actually Work

SPEAKER_00 27:18

work?

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Um that's that's a good question as well because I do I struggle with productivity. Well, yeah. I think don't kid yourself into thinking that you can work for five hours. That's just not produ like it that five hours of of not working. You know, if you're even if you're not on social media, if you're just surfing the web and you're just you know, like switching tabs all the time, if that's not working, sit down at the desk, work for an hour, take a 10-minute break, come back to it, you know, things like that. Um, then you can sustain it for a lot longer. Um I yeah, I think I think the sort of efficient, um, you know, deep focus bursts are so much better than um than that. Definitely not working in your room, working in a different, you know, having different locations, um, and also switching up your environment. So Do you have a study body?

Study Buddies, Brown Noise & What Doesn’t Work

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Um, I do. I actually find it depends what kind of work I'm doing, but often I I find it much better than working on my own because I'm quite a performative worker. So it means that I want to outdo whoever's with me. Like I'm very competitive and also I'm conscious that they're watching me.

unknown 28:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

And so I won't be checking my phone if there's someone with me because I I want to look like I'm locked in. So so so often if I've got someone with me, it's almost like I'm holding myself accountable because they're there. You know what Amelia does?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Oh yeah, she records herself. She actually videos herself and then I close it to a little TikTok account. She's got a channel.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I can't do that because then I'm I'm performing for the camera. Yes. Interesting. Because then subconsciously, I'm not focused on the work, I'm focused on the recording. Like I need to be completely 100% locked in. I also realized that all throughout A levels, I thought I could work with music. I can't work with music.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

No one can work with music.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Um listen to brown noise. Yes. Put put your headphones in, brown noise, drones out, everything. Just the kind of the constant, yeah. It's fantastic. It's absolutely fantastic.

AI at University: Help or Hindrance?

SPEAKER_01 29:33

And what about AI? Um AI is everyone uses it. Um Oxid is very um like they have very strict guidelines about AI usage.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

People not all universities do, yeah. And that's actually problematic because it's harder students to know where the boundaries are.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah. So I'm sort of conscious of becoming dependent on it, and that scares me. Because I mean, not to get sort of existential, but I do think humans' quality of thought is declining. I think we are becoming dependent on AI.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I think it's a very important thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Because, for example, like my dad also went to Oxford and he read law, and they didn't have any devices, any AI resources, anything like that. And you literally you were given-comput. Yeah, you were given your reading list, yeah, you'd you'd handwrite your essays, you were given your reading list, you would go and read it, and y and you would have the you'd have to go and find the book in the library, open it up, handwrite your notes, all of this. And you didn't have tools to help you think. So often I find if I if I'm, you know, if I meet with a philosophical concept that I can't understand, I'll ask AI about it, I'll put the reading into AI and get it to explain it to me. You couldn't do that before. No. Um you would just have to think it through. You genuinely have to just use your own m capacity, and if you couldn't do it, then you'd have to go and ask someone about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

And so I feel like this d dependency on AI is actually Well, what I've read about that particular issue, which is a very, very important issue now, and I love you that you've raised it, is that the critical thing is struggling with the concept first. Because if you instantly go to AI and get AI to solve the problems, you're not actually making your brain try and deal with the difficult things and and teaching your brain to do that hard work. And then the people who've done it that way, when they are then tested later on, they perform worse than the people who have tried to come up with solutions first and then gone to AI exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Because you're not if you if you're getting AI to explain it to you, you're you're not doing the thinking. Yeah. You don't have that connection of having thought something out and then understood it by putting in the effort to to actually come to your own evaluation about something and understanding it.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

And you're tested at the beginning of every single term, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yeah, we have sample collections.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yes. Um just proof.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah. So yeah, so they keep me working over the holidays, which is super fun.

Money, Budgeting & Real Costs of Uni Life

SPEAKER_00 32:04

So one of the other things that people tend to worry about is money and the cost of things and how you fund things. What surprised you about university costs? Or would is there anything you didn't anticipate?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

How much money can fly out of your account without going towards anything substantial? Um that's something I'm still working on managing my budget because it's quite difficult. What makes it difficult? I think just I think it well, I think if you do it right, then it shouldn't be difficult. But but what's right? Well, just like budgeting.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

You know, I I'll just interject there. You are actually a very organized person compared to a lot of people your age. You're quite a spreadsheet guru. And so if you're finding it difficult, that's a bit hard, but you can't.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah, I hadn't I I had a plan and then it didn't go how I thought it would. But yeah, so I am working on that. It was difficult last year because obviously it depends on your accommodation. But last year my accommodation was catered for. So I found it quite difficult knowing how much to put aside for that because you would pay for your meals, but you would pay per meal, and so I wasn't doing a weekly grocery shop or something like that. It would just be very sporadic payments, and then I'd also buy myself my own food as well. So it was just very random, disorganised. But whereas this year we um I still have the option of being catered, but I don't particularly like the college food. Um, and actually it's not great value for money. So we're good at cooking. Yeah, and I'm so I get a kitchen this year. Because last year you just had a fridge. Yeah. Microvey. Yeah, literally just had a fridge, microbe, and a toaster. So I think this year I'm going to be a lot more diligent about having a weekly budget for food shops, for example, and then and then do that and stick to it and plan my meals and stuff, and then hopefully I'll be more on top of it. Yeah, it's really important to have an idea of what you need to spend and how you'd like to. It's really helpful to look at what the averages are across the country because it varies depending on um what city you're in. Oxford is a very expensive city. Yes. Whereas I have a friend in St. Andrews who is spending a lot less than me, but that's because she's all the way up north and and not, you know, it's just a very different experience. Really good point. So I even I come home and I'm like, wow, milk here is so much cheaper, you know, that things like that. Like it's quite small, but it really adds up. Um so looking at like average student costs per per city is is because they do vary, but it it is expensive. What was worth

What’s Worth Spending Money On

SPEAKER_01 34:35

spending money on? I think club tickets or like events and things like that, that's worth it. Definitely don't drink out. I don't buy drinks in clubs. If someone buys a drink for me, then obviously that's a different story. But I tend not to because it's so expensive. It's not necessary when you can drink at home. Obviously, not alone. We do social gatherings. Although sometimes a nice glass of wine with an essay isn't so bad. Maybe I've said this to you before. Some of my best essays have been written under the influence. I mean, I have people writing in saying, What have you written? You've raised an alcoholic daughter. Um, no, I actually I really don't drink a lot compared to me friends. So I love a sober night out. I would say drink beforehand saves a lot of money. The best spends, it varies from person to person. Like some of my friends spend their money on completely different things. I mean, we've already discussed drugs, but like that 60 pounds that they'll spend on some drugs for a night out. It blows my mind. I spend on food. Like I love food. Yes. So I'll just after a month. Yeah. You know, I'll I'll just buy really nice quality things throughout term. But that's just, you know, it's just personal preference, really. Yeah, it's just like what would I rather? Because it's it's a trade-off, and some some of my friends just don't value that at all, so they'll go and buy a McDonald's or something, and then they'll have uh extra cash to spend somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

And one thing we got you for your birthday was a cappuccino machine, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

And

Smart Purchases: Coffee Machines, Tablets & Tech

SPEAKER_01 36:00

it wasn't a cappuccino, it was just a coffee machine.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Coffee machine, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

So was that a good thing to have, given you like coffee so much? Yes. And no coffee is so expensive. Right. Like, no, but you just think about, you know, if you go out for a coffee, it's what's ridiculous. I mean, I don't do Starbucks for it, but even even with student discounts around me, you know, you're spending at least £3.80 on a coffee. It's really expensive. So I would say that's a a good investment if that's something you enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Is there one particular purchase that you think any first years should make or have? Ooh. Having talked to your friends as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Um Well, okay, I would say one of the setups that a lot of people at Oxford have is a laptop and then also a tablet that goes along with that for like physical note-taking, but but like digital. Because regardless of your degree, whether it's a humanities or I mean, especially for STEM, but humanities as well, it's so useful being able to write with a stylus and have all of your notes on on one database. That's rather than a brilliant tip. Yeah, and they found that you're more likely to retain information that you handwrite. So any notes you handwrite are are going to last longer in your memory. So that's worth it anyway. But then obviously, if you're handwriting on random sheets of paper, or you know, you might have a notebook or something, but it's more likely to get damaged. Whereas if you have it all on a tablet, then it's really good. And and everyone, like you go into a library in Oxford, everyone has that. Everyone's that's so interesting. Literally everyone, yeah. Um Mac, they'll have a I hate MacBooks, I hate Apple but um I mean I have an iPhone, but different, different, different vibe. Um, but everyone will have their MacBook and then they'll have a little iPad or a little tablet, and they'll um you know, and it's just so useful, definitely worth the investment. I I had a friend buy one recently and she said it's changed her life. Fantastic. So I would be good to love that one.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

And that's a good investment. Like that will last you a long time. And also it doesn't have to be super expensive. You can get a very simple one as long as you can write with a stylus on the exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

You don't need all the functions that an iPad has because you can do that on your phone. As long as you have to literally just need stylus and notes app or something. Um, other than that, oh, depending on where you are, uh, maybe a bike bike would be good. You just got a beer bike though, didn't you? You bought one bike. Yeah, it's it's it needs to be really bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

It's really like I should we have given you the bike from home should have taken that.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I think I might do that.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Yeah. Well at least as long as you have somewhere to that was the problem. We didn't know whether it would have storage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good tip. I like that. What about mental health issues? Um, you know, you even if you haven't had any specifically, we've all met people who had mental health issues. What is the hardest part of being at

Mental Health Ups and Downs at University

SPEAKER_00 38:52

university?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

It's very up and down. It's never going to be a consistently great or consistently bad experience, regardless of whether you're having a tough time. Like my first term was really hard, but when I realized that that wasn't just me, that like that is generally the case. I think I found a lot of comfort in that. Yes. Like how did you find out that that wasn't just you? Well, I asked you. Yeah. You hear other people who have been through it and then come out the other end, and a lot of people who I admire, like adults that I know who are doing really well for themselves and now say that university was the favourite part of their lives. Yeah. Or one of the their favourite moments, and then they said that their first year was really tough. Yes. First term, first year, even. You're still not an adult. First year is just all about figuring things out. Um It's a lot going on. Yeah. And and it's your first taste of of being an adult. Like you are managing things yourself. So it it you're managing a lot.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Are there skills that you think you would have been bene you would benefit from that you didn't have? That could have been taught to you before you went.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Perhaps certain organizational skills. I've never been good at keeping a tidy room, but there were times last term where it got really bad. I think just time management, but I don't know if that can be taught. I feel like that has to be found out from experience.

University Support, Reporting Concerns & Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yes. Um and you found that actually when you were deteriorating, your room reflected. Yeah. When things were going to be like, my room is and the other students, when there were students who had issues. Did people notice them? Did people report them? What what happens when someone's struggling? Can they ask for help?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I assume that every university has this because I feel like it basically is everywhere now. But you know, some kind of mental health support system. I know um Oxford offer, I think they offer f like a they have a free um like line that you can call. They have a night line as well. Um yeah, they have like free sub, which is really good. Um and then also it it was part of the induction talks, but they said we have this team, we have the junior dean and people like this, and and they're fresh as reps and things like that that you could. Go to those talks, don't avoid them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you know, they'll s they'll also they'll they'll send it out in emails. But obviously, if you go to the talks, you're getting the f information firsthand and it sticks because there was uh a time when I had to go and report someone. Not it and nothing had happened to me, but it was f for someone else, and and ha it was quite early on, and I had learned who to go to through the kind of induction. I was very proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

You saw somebody was struggling, and you said, you know, we need to make sure that they are being looked after.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

I didn't think it was dealt with very well though, but um at least in that situation I did what everything that I could, and it wasn't it I realised that it wasn't my responsibility, it was the universities, and so I kind of passed on that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

I think that's such an important message, and this has happened when you were very young, both you and your other sisters, when someone comes to you with a difficult problem or you see something, there's a tendency to want to take it on for yourself, but it's not your responsibility, the adults need to be taking that responsibility, so it's finding the right person and handing over, isn't it? Yeah, exactly.

Safety, Walking Home & Looking Out for Each Other

SPEAKER_00 42:04

And it's very important. What about things like safety? Safety in what sense? How do you ensure your safety? I think a lot of parents are seeing their babies disappear off into the distance, and for us it's a very difficult thing. So, for example, when you would call me and you were feeling very stressed or upset about something, it's very hard as a parent to kind of calm down and go, it's gonna be fine because our job is to support you, not to get tangled up in all that emotion. And that's a technique I've learnt over time, it doesn't just suddenly happen. I think the other thing that parents so it's that moderating our own emotions and not getting caught up in it so we can really support you. The other thing is parents are really scared when they see their babies fly off. Yeah. Because I told you years ago that when you have babies, it's like parts of your heart are now wandering the world without you having control over them. And so we're and I think the the fear and the risk aversion has risen dramatically in this generation of parents. So, what sort of things can you say to parents that would help them understand how they should treat their kids? Um, how are there key safety things that you would give a tip any tips on?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I think obviously like all children, well not really children, teens, will be in different um will have different experiences of independence by the time that they go to university. You know, it's really interesting, like there's such disparity between those who have taken a year out, who are now like 20 or something and they're starting university, and those who have literally never lived away from home, you know, haven't really drank or or gone out clubbing or something like that, and now it's their first taste of freedom, and you can really see a difference in just in their behaviour. Um but I would say that even those who I've seen who fall into the latter group who are very excited about finally they're free, I don't underestimate them. They are making Choices that are the best for them. And obviously making mistakes is part of growing and learning from experience. But the thing is, you're still in a controlled environment at university. It's not a free-for-all. You do have a lot more independence, but there are still certain measures in place to make sure that people are safe, basically. I would say that that's a big one. Like it's it's kind of the perfect place to learn how to dysfunction on your own. Um and also it does depend on where you are at university. Um, but I know for me, well, I think for a lot of like university cities and towns and things like that, they they do have a very safe feel to them. Maybe not London, but like um Oxford when I'm walking around. Like I I've had no problem walking home alone from a club, which maybe isn't the best thing to do, but and also that they're not very far out either. Like we're talking maximum 15 minutes walk. Yeah. But it just feels so insanely safe. And because it's because a lot of people are students. It's about Oxford is dominated by the university. It is the university. The city is the university, and so you know, even if you're not walking past your own college, you're walking past someone else's college. So it's like you are actually just surrounded by porters and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Do you when you go because you've said you walk home alone? Do you are there? No, I don't usually if are there any rules in terms of going out looking after each other, or is it

Should Parents Track Their Teen’s Location?

SPEAKER_00 45:26

quite relaxed? Not rules that the university imposes on us. No, I mean your rules.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

But but yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean usually I won't leave on my own and I won't let my friends go on their own. Um we tend to move in groups and we'll tend to say, oh look, I'm going home now and make sure everyone knows. I think that's a big thing. But um, but yeah, we we also all have each other's locations and and we're constantly updating the group chat. So it's things like that. It's just it's just making sure that you have touch points.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

So I think there's a lot more awareness of each other and than there used to be when I was younger. And what do you think about parents tracking their kids?

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I don't have any problem with it personally. It depends on like I have one friend whose mother constantly checks her location, and I think that is a little bit of an invasion because unless I think unless you know she's constantly checking. Because she tex she the mother messages the daughter and says, I can see you're doing this right now why you do why are you here? Um I think that's an invasion of privacy.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Well, her mother's struggling to let you know she's struggling, she's trying to keep control, isn't she?

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, so I would say like there have also been times when I've gone home and I thought actually I would like an extra safety measure in place. Yeah. And if you're awake, then I will call you and I'll or I'll we do that. Yeah, and then I'm and then I'll just talk to you and we're just chatting. But it's nice to have that comfort of someone on the end of a phone call who I know, you know, is looking out for me. But but I think unless you have a particular reason to be looking at someone's location, I think it's good to have, but don't abuse that because it is a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

I've got all of you, all four of you, on location tracking. The oldest was the last one where I said, Would you mind? She went, actually, no, I'd love that. And it's so cute. If I was looking at it every day, I think, oh gosh, I've got a problem here. Every now and then I'll look on it and say, It's so nice to see what everyone's up to.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I know you can go, oh, you know, this friend's over here and this one's over here.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

But also I can go, oh, she's not in you know, that city. Where where is she now? Oh, she's there. And it gives me something to call her about and ask her about. So yeah, I love that. Um I think it just depends on how much you feel compelled to check. So final things, how does it feel coming home in the summer having been away? It was quite a change.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Um because I'm I've got very used to having a lot of independence and I think especially especially at the start, I really struggled with moving back home. I I felt like I everyone was sort of treading on my toes and like getting in the way almost. But I like I love being at home and I love having you guys around. And so I would say that if you find that your child is getting really touchy or like irritable or wants space, it's not you, it's just because they're so used to having adjustments, yeah.

Coming Home After Uni & Family Adjustments

SPEAKER_00 48:15

And it's probably gonna be the same for the parents or the rest of the members of the family. Exactly. Or you have a transition, it's just different.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, exactly. I love being home. I was really looking forward to coming. I was exhausted by the end of the time, so I was so excited to come home. But I do really miss it. You do, I really really miss it.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah. That's a good thing. I'm happy that you miss it. Yeah. And you said something just the other night, which I absolutely loved, where you pointed out that we were not having enough fun. Yeah. And and you said, look, I'm 19, we don't have endless amounts of time together, and we need to be making the most of it. Because of course, your home, you're having to study because you've got mods coming up, big, big, big exams, you know, your sister studying for her A levels. You know, we're all busy. But actually, what was your suggestion?

Protecting Family Time: Daily “Sacred” Fun

SPEAKER_01 49:00

I just think having a set time every day, well, obviously when people are around, where everyone just convenes and and it's non-negotiable, and sort of it's like sacred time, and you allocate a game or something to that type, you know, tennis or card games or whatever. And then people can have their space.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

And we played cards last night for oh my goodness, it was so much fun, wasn't it? It was really fun. And then you think, why don't we do this more often? And you had some really good ideas, some good uh games that you introduced to us, and you know, we didn't want to stop really. I was just tired. I I one of the things I've noticed is that you have to prioritize these things, but you just have to make it a habit because it's too easy for people to slip off and go and do their own thing. So having special time together becomes more and more rare as we're getting older, doesn't it? Yeah, it really is. Okay, so if people forget everything else about this conversation we've had, what would be the one message you'd like to say about how we can prepare our kids for this transition to university?

Final Advice: Trust Them & Let Them Learn

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I think trust them.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Give them space, they know what they need, and even if you think they don't and they actually don't, then they will realise that they haven't. Yeah. That's the thing. I think that's the most important thing. Just don't be too invasive, don't be too overbearing, be supportive. Um scaffold it. Yeah, scaffold it. And the first year is just for screwing up, basically. Like that will happen. Um don't panic if they call you and they need support and they're crying or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

This is not the end of the world. Just tell them it's okay, this is part of the process, it's going to get better.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Yeah. For the kids or kids, I don't know what to call them, teens, whatever. Um also don't panic if you don't find your people immediately, because often it takes a lot of sifting through people. Um yeah, and and so, you know, it and also, I mean, Brideshead revisited, quote, you spend your second year trying to lose all the friends you made in the first year. Now, that's not my objective.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Actually, I think I remember being at university and it was you spend the rest of your year getting rid of the people you met in the first week. But whatever.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

That's but but basically nothing is set in stone. Things are always yeah, yeah, yeah, be fluid. And I think I think that's what actually helped me is that my in my first time I I think I panicked because I felt so very set in my ways and very stuck. Um, I loved all my friends, but it but it was more like I just hadn't realized that I just needed to be a lot less binary about my relationships and friendships and just kind of be open to everything. It might take some time, but don't panic, it doesn't mean that they're not out there. The great thing about university is that there are so many people there that you are bound to meet people that you like at some point.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

So many people. Um and this is the time in your life when you have access to so many people. It's gonna be easier now than at any other time to go and try out different hobbies, try out meeting different people, so it's worth really taking that on board. And we we turned up in that first day with a car absolutely bursting with stuff that you'd taken, and each term that was within the streets. It's just dwindled.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah. Well, last time I didn't even bring any decorations for my room. I was so fed up. But I think this time round I have a smaller room. Um, I'm going to be a lot more particular about the things that I choose to bring.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Um But we understood because you were taking your life with you and you didn't know which bits of your life were going to be most important when you were there. So, you know, just understand that your child, if they take huge amounts of stuff, that's just them fed it in your nest, and then slowly it will become less important. Agreed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

It also didn't help with keeping my room tidy.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Correct. Yes. Oh my gosh, less is more less in your life, whittle everything down. The less you have, the the less you have to clear up. It's just one of those mantras that I've slowly grown into.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah, like I had so much random clothing that I never wore, and then I didn't have any cutlery. You know, things like that. Like, bring the essential stuff. I mean, obviously you can replace cutlery quite easily, but it was I just realized that I had a whole load of useless stuff that I brought with me and then actually the things that I needed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Right. That was um so helpful. It was lovely for me because obviously we chat an awful lot, but there were always things that I don't ask you unless we sit down here in the room and have these conversations. So I feel very blessed that you had have taken the time to talk this, talk through this with me. Thank you very much, Phoebe. Thank you. If you found this useful, please, please, please send it to someone who's about to start university, a parent who's feeling a bit fretful about it, anybody who's trying to prepare for the entire process and wanting to make sure that they don't forget things. Obviously, experiences are going to differ, but there are a lot of things that are similar. And you know, Phoebe's got friends at different universities around, so some of that will be things that she's heard from other people. You can find my website www.teenagersuntangled.com. If you have another suggestion, any other questions, anything you want to ask my daughters, let me know because we're very open to suggestions, particularly since they're home at the moment, because get it while you can. And that's teenagersuntangled at gmail.com. And I'm on Substack where I write a lot more. So if you like reading things, come to my Substack, which is also Teenagers Untangled, Fearless Parenting is what I call it. That's it for me for this week. Thank you so much for being on this journey with us. Big hug, bye bye.