Dec. 9, 2025
The Fatherhood Gap: How Society Is Failing Dads (and Our Kids)
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Ask Rachel anything What's the point of fathers? Michael Ray, father and gender equality campaigner says the way they're portrayed in the media and advertising sends the impression that they are either bumbling idiots or not an important part of raising kids. It was only when Michael was left raising his daughter alone that he became conscious of how little support there is for men taking on less traditional roles in the home. He highlights the lack of representation of fathers in media and a...
What's the point of fathers? Michael Ray, father and gender equality campaigner says the way they're portrayed in the media and advertising sends the impression that they are either bumbling idiots or not an important part of raising kids.
It was only when Michael was left raising his daughter alone that he became conscious of how little support there is for men taking on less traditional roles in the home. He highlights the lack of representation of fathers in media and advertising, noting that only 4% of parenting portrayals in Australia feature fathers.
Ray argues that we've made big changes to our views of women but that hasn't been matched either in the workplace or in the media for men, and true equality is only possible if men are given more status and respect in the role of father.
Michael Ray:
https://michaelray.com.au/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-ray-574079183/
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00:45 - Becoming a Dad at 50 and the “Unicorn” Single Father Stigma
03:34 - Banned Backstage at Ballet: Everyday Sexism Against Dads
04:40 - Flexible Work, “Heel Jobs” and Why Men Are Shut Out of Care Roles
09:22 - Media Stereotypes: Homer Simpson, Daddy Pig and the Bumbling Dad Trope
11:49 - Christmas Ad Breakdown: Why Dad Gets the Moment and Mum Does the Work
12:29 - Supermarket Challenge: Why Men Are Missing from Domestic Product Packaging
14:46 - Gendered Marketing, Amazon Gift Lists and Limiting Girls’ Futures
18:16 - Andrew Tate, Boys Online and Why Most Teens Reject Misogyny
18:16 - Practical Tips: How to Challenge Biased Portrayals of Fathers
19:29 - Practical Tips: How to Challenge Biased Portrayals of Fathers
21:49 - Maternal Gatekeeping, Mental Load and Letting Dads Do It Their Way
22:33 - The “Fatherhood Effect”: Science, Hormones and Why Dads Change Kids’ Lives
26:05 - Talking to Tweens and Teens About Gender Roles and Role Models
28:02 - Powerlifting Daughter, High-Achieving Stepmum and Flipping Stereotypes at Home
29:08 - The Motherhood Penalty, Gender Pay Gap and Why We Need Paternity Leave
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Matt, hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for anyone supporting someone going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now, to what extent do fathers actually matter? My guest today says the way men are treated in society implies they're optional, not really important. Michael Ray is a best selling author, keynote speaker and former journalist and news anchor for the informer and his book, who knew, explores global parenting issues past and present. Welcome to the show, Michael. Now first, what made you focus on this entire topic of the way that fathers are treated. Obviously you are a father, but we what? What made you focus on this topic?
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Rachel, I was a late starter. I didn't become a dad until I turned 50, so blissfully unaware of some of the challenges and stigmas that were around and it 18 months after I became a father, I became a sole parent, just my daughter and I, and suddenly it became glaringly obvious that I was treated as some sort of unicorn. I was either the, you know, amazing and cute, or, you know, it just, instead of being less common, it was seen as unusual or odd.
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There was a lot of, oh, really what happened? Oh, you know, it seemed to be something that really struck me. I'm a bit of a communications wonk and language matters. But then at four years old, my daughter had a four year old ballet concert, and suddenly I was banned from assisting a backstage because I'm a bloke, which would have left her as the only child without a parent by her side. And I couldn't, couldn't have that. The thought of my daughter not having someone to share her excitement or calm her nerves, or to look around that backstage area and look at all of her mates with, you know, with a parent, with a parent, with a parent, and here I am on my own. And then it made me realize, see, as much as we talk about women's equality, until we encourage, enable and allow men to be equally responsible and considered equally capable, women's equality simply won't happen.
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Real choice won't happen, and we're seeing it now in the rate of burnout reported by women.
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We've actually helped them into it, because if all we do is focus on ensuring that women can combine caregiving and careers, then we're just adding more on to it, so the old, original catch cry of women can have it all. Well, that's fine if you're okay with doing it all. So until we go, You know what? Here in Australia, 70% of Australian workplaces now have a formal policy for flexible working.
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Less than 2% have set targets for men's engagement in it. So it really boils down to the simple fact, if dads can't, mums must, and we haven't ensured that dads can. And yet we paint that as some sort of gendered destiny, that men aren't that interested, they're not that capable. They really don't. But imagine if we did the same with women. When we said, you know, women in management C suite.
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They just need to work a bit harder, they just need to be a bit more ambitious. But We rightfully measure and try and address all of the hurdles and challenges there, but we don't seem to do it for men, and I've hit those barriers.
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Yes, that's absolutely fascinating, and actually that resonates very much with the conversation I had with Giselle Goodwin about the way that women heard, we can have it all, and when we we heard, we can do it all, which is a rather different message.
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And unfortunately for men, they've been sidelined in that message, as you say, and there's quite a few things to unpack there. So for example, the sort of being backstage, there are a lot of women who are a bit scared, or people safeguarders who are scared about having men backstage, that really causes problems for fathers, but also just in careers, because I remember reading Richard Reeves book, and his whole point is that in order for men to succeed in the world going forward, they need to have more access to heel jobs, so all the sort of soft, caring jobs, because those are the ones which are really rising, and yet there's still so much stigma around men taking on those roles, like in teaching, in education and health care.
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What are your thoughts about how we can tackle this, these worries about men being in those spaces?
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Rachel, I can, I can understand the concern for being in those spaces, but it's not a black or white or an either or imagine if the ballet school's position was we can't have parents who are wheelchair dependent backstage because we haven't gone to the trouble.
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Them to facilitate their involvement. So if, if there was a male such as myself that wanted to be involved, surely it was up to them to provide the resources and the space. I'd been at that ballet school for two years sitting in the hall with Mums the only bloke there I've become one of the one of the girl they were, my mum tried. They threatened a boycott if I wasn't allowed in. Luckily, one of the mums was a friend of a journalist, and it hit the news. And it went worldwide. It went nuts, second page of the main papers on all the major news channels and all the rest of it. But then suddenly I was bombarded with all these other dads saying, yeah, it's happened to me and other mums saying, yeah, it's ridiculous. Hard to take the day off work because they wouldn't allow my husband to do it. There are so many subtle messages in men's toilets. We retrofitted syringe disposals in every toilet, but no change tables. So what does that say about what we expect from men? But we grow up in that fetishised Disney only a mother's love, mother knows best, maternal instinct, all of which put immense pressure on mums who are struggling with the natural challenges and struggles of raising a child, and, you know, struggling as a mum. But does that mean I'm flawed as a woman, because I meant to have this maternal instinct. I'm meant to just know all this stuff. And I've found a lot of my mum friends won't actually reach out for help until it's at crisis point, because they feel that burden of expectations, like, you know you'll be right, you'll be okay, whereas with dads, as long as I don't drop it. You would think I killed cancer because, I'm afraid. Say it's ridiculous. You get all this attention. I say, Yeah, but it's well meaning. Is what the praise is. You need to realize it comes from a place of, gee, you're not a deal. Well done.
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Good for you. You know, it would be like me, you know, saying to female CEO, Oh, you're kidding.
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Like, well done. I thought you were the secretary. Like it is patronizing and it's just parent, and that's what I keep saying. You know, caregiving isn't dependent on chromosomes any more than ambition and expertise is. So, you know, it comes down to values and character, and I've found the best version of myself. And when some people say, Aren't you concerned about your masculinity, it's expanded my masculinity. I'm a bloke.
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Anything I do, by definition, is masculine. My caregiving is masculine. My you know, whatever I do is masculine, because I'm a bloke. So whether it fits in your limited understanding or the narrow definition of society, the problem with stereotypes is they make one story the only story, and there's so much more than that.
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So, you know, I taught my daughter how to sew, and everyone says, oh, unusual bloke with a sewing machine. But the reason I can use its own machine Rachel, was, when I was bigger, I was a strength athlete, and clothes wouldn't fit me, so I learned to alter my clothes to cover my muscles. But then I started a sportswear company to dress all the other big, muscley bikes. And now suddenly, oh, you know, that's, I say. It was being a, you know, a stereotype of a male that led me to learn how to use its own machine.
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Yeah, the hairstyles I got quite involved in because my daughter saw one of her mates at Candy.
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Doesn't that look great? So I went to a hairdresser and had lessons, bought a mannequin because I didn't want to torture, and that's why I say to guys, if you can learn to master Excel or car repairs or home repairs or anything like that, it's just, you know, caregiving is competency. That's all it is.
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You just skills to be learned, whether you're a male or female, and timing role changes that. So we're all a bit nervous going in the misnomer if we become parents a day our children are born, that's like saying a student becomes a scholar the minute they walk through the gate. That's where it begins, and it's ongoing. And remember those days when you could rattle those keys and like, calm the tears down. I tried it the other day, when Charlie's 14, with some friendship things I know he got slapped, so that the skill sets ever evolving,
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yes, and that, and we grow all the time. And it's, I love your point about the hairstyles, because actually, that was one of the things I was truly terrible at.
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And, you know, I'm a woman, and you know, the whole stereotype is you're supposed to be good at hair, and I've got girls, and I'm just, no matter how much I tried it, just thought, I just don't care. So the whole point is that you've gone to all that trouble, and it's not about gender. It's just that you genuinely love doing your daughter's hair, and it mattered to you too. So I think it's a wonderful message that you're giving. And can you talk a bit more about what you're seeing as a man? Are the roles for men and why that's a problem.
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One of my head hates.
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Rachel, I bang on a lot about advertising, and in Australia, less than 4% of parenting portrayals in advertising of fathers, and less than 2% of them actually parenting. So we talk about workplace policies and workplace equality and initiatives and programs and parental leave, our kids are marinating in this stuff well before they can even spell career, or when they think C suite is something you get if you eat all your vegetables. And so it sets up that expectation.
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So at the moment, I'm trying to get a study off where we interview boys at sort of four, 812, and 16, and ask them what her dad is and see where it changes. But when you look at the portrayals of fathers in media, Homer, Simpson, Daddy Pig, you know, Peter Griffin in Family Guy and bumbling man, jobs always wrecking something around the house, always going to mum to check if it's okay, ask your mother. Don't tell your mother all of these things, or wait until your father gets home. But we saw what happened back in World War Two with Rosie the Riveter, when, you know, was a national emergency, we needed women to enter into the workforce, and so the media got behind it, and they changed the narrative. Not only was it necessary, but women could do this. Women were strong. It's never extended to men. So we rightfully have a chorus of voices saying women can do anything men can do when given the opportunity. But there's barely a whisper of saying men can do anything women can do, apart from birth and breastfeeding. We're left out, and women were told they could have it all. That was a lie. But men have been told that there was only one role for them, and that's a travesty.
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We had a very popular advert here in the UK.
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Christmas adverts here, they're quite long. The expense on them is huge. And this one, I don't know if you saw it, but this one portrayed a father having a moment with his son, and it was very moving. However, everybody who watched it, who is aware of the issues, noticed that the mother had called everybody to help, to put the to lay the table, and that meanwhile, the dad has a moment with the son, while the women are in the background with the daughter laying the table and doing all the work. And which I just thought, why can't they get this right? Why does this continue?
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It's It is ridiculous.
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Rachel, my daughter was, I think, eight years old. We're walking through the supermarket, and she noticed, she said, Dad, why are there no boys on the packets? I'm gonna, I'm gonna challenge your viewers here.
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Next time you're at the supermarket, we walked every aisle in the supermarket. Oh, I love this man. 28 products with a picture of a person on it. Out of those 28 products, only three had men on them. Mr. Muscle, a drain cleaner, Mr. Sheen, a furniture polish. And there was a really cool looking dab with dreadlocks on an organic nappy throwing his kid in the air.
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Apart from that, everything from laundry detergent to floor polish to dish washing liquid to baby products to cake mix women.
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So at eight years old, my daughter is suddenly being influenced. If it's in the domestic realm, it's you, it's it's yours. And we rightfully call out the obvious sexist stuff. But this stuff, I think, is even more influential because it seeps in and we don't notice it, and it is everywhere. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
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So listeners, have a look next time you're in the supermarket, and just try and find a man actually using the product in the way it's intended. And I think you'll be hard pressed to do it
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absolutely that's a really great thing to do. That'll be my challenge next week. I suppose the thing with advertising and marketing is, when my kids were quite young, I got really annoyed with it because I noticed clothes were gendered and everything seemed to be gendered, and they would put pink things in a sort of, this is for girls and boys and and one of the reasons I thought, Oh, I must talk to you, was because I had a listener message in saying, I'm so enraged, because Amazon has sent out a gift list for girls and boys, and they're the boys.
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Stuff is all about, you know, electronics and sport and learning things, and the girl stuff is all about nails and beauty. And so it's very it's very persistent. The problem, I think, is that, when I looked into it, is that the marketing departments discovered, you sell more stuff. Obviously, we can just boycott products the gender stuff, but it's how do we get that message across? For me,
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this isn't about brands being politically correct, or if you want to call it woke, or any This is about future proofing your product. The narrative hasn't caught up with modern day reality. So I'm going. Use Australian statistics here, just because I'm comfortable with them. Currently in Australia, one in five single parent households are led by fathers.
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Single father households, and now the fastest growing family demographic in Australia, they're increasing by 14% every five years, where single moms are only increasing by 9% and they estimate that they'll be increased by 40 to 65% by the 2041 census. So this trend continues. The single the old single mum, working mother, will be in the minority the term working mother. 65% of mothers now work, so stay at home mum would be more the thing to point out, because dual incomes are necessary in today's lifestyle.
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The other thing that happens is Australian dads are spending triple the time in hands on parenting is what they were just one generation ago, but the narrative still sticks. So we don't tell those stories and we don't see it. So there's a there's a behavioral science term called pluralistic ignorance. So it's basically like you think that your normal, your beliefs are different to everyone else's. So you keep your head down, you don't speak up, you don't say anything. So this snowball. So when at work somebody says, Oh, you know, parental leave available, I'm going to be judged for this, whereas 75% of the other people at work would actually support you doing it, but you feel like you need to shrink because of that pluralistic ignorance of stories don't get told when media go on stories about caregiving, child care, all the rest of it, women are quoted in Australian papers 92% of the time. Around those matters, they don't seek out a father to comment. But when it comes to matters of expert areas like economics, science, all the rest of it, women are called on less than 20% and yet those fields are full of brilliant expert women experts. So we keep perpetuating this stuff. So we really need to hold the media and advertisers accountable for it.
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Oh, my goodness, that's such an interesting point. I think you're onto something very important. Two of my girls are in their 20s. One's now 31 actually, 128's and I've noticed that even those guys they're dating are so much more interested in cooking, taking care of children. I mean, one of them's desperate to have children. And I was on a train recently going into London, and I noticed the guys, two guys, sitting next to me who were having a conversation about their their babies and how they you know, how do you look after this and what you're doing here?
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And I thought, wow. When I was growing up, I never heard men sitting around on trains talking about their caregiving. And do you think there are any particular areas where we're widening that gap? Because I wonder about boys being online and the message, the messages that are coming through there, and the extent to which we're just going further apart rather than closer?
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Yeah, I think that there's a little bit of pearl clutching going on with some of the stuff. When you read the way that their headlines go, where they say, one in six boys have a positive opinion of Andrew Tate, to me, that means 85% of the boys think he's a deal. But we report it as one in six and go, Oh, boys. You know, boys are the problem. Boys are this and I'm not saying dismiss it, but when 85% of the people don't do it, but I can still remember when Elvis was going to lead everyone astray, and, you know, the teams were going to go and we clutched at pearls, and there's, you know, he's an abhorrent deal, but we've got to ask, What part are we playing in driving to it?
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Because we're basically a marketing funnel for it. That's that's the purpose in the world, is to have everyone call him out to be the counterpoint, to be the provocateur. So rather than pointing out the bad ones, we need to highlight the good ones on a day to
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day basis. What are your tips for the ways that we can actually challenge what is being portrayed?
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I think we need to accept that fatherhood is different, not less so, whether Bubs on dad's shoulders or mum's hip, Bubs being carried, whether dad's having fun, you know, making bubble hair in the bath, or whether mum's using the, you know, the real nurturing, caring thing, Bubs bathed. For all the mums out there that want to complain about the way dad's doing it, hush up, he's doing it. It. Means you don't have to, and it's done. You know, as long as he's not putting the child at risk, give him some space.
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Because when I now speak to a lot of dads, and when I ask them, What do you think the main challenges are? What's stopping you being exactly the sort of dad you believe your kid wants?
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Maternal gatekeeping is in the top three nearly all the time.
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Work challenges, confidence.
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Maternal gatekeeping. Women get a head start the minute they start trying to become pregnant or broach it. Hormones change.
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They get connected. They have all this. When I speak to dads and you say, when did you first feel that you know you're actually Dad Your kid? When you realize, and most of them, I'd say probably 70% was the first time they were left alone when they were solely responsible for the bub, whether it was a trip down the street in the pram, whether it was mum had gone out and was just the two of them, then it was suddenly like, this is actually happening. This is me, but a lot of dads think because of that maternal instinct, because we've been drummed into it all our life.
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You know, great dad is a provider, a disciplinarian, a protector, and a great assistant that just adds more load on the mums. And that's why I said and there's a reason why management gets paid more, because you got to figure stuff out. And you know that mental load that we keep hearing about. So you constantly saying, What do you want me to do? How do you want me to do it? Just trust you've got your own story to write, your own half the walk and your own lessons to learn. Do we we know the benefits of diversity in management? Why don't we accept the same in parenting?
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Yes, yes. And rather than them having to say, So, how should I do this?
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Saying, well, you you do it the way that was going to work for you. I think it particularly when the kids become teenagers.
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I hear a lot of friction between parents, and I do get men contacting me saying, I feel really locked out, like I don't know how I'm supposed to do this. And there's this assumption that there's a perfect way to parent and that somehow women know how to do it instinctively, we just don't, and none of us is doing this perfectly. All of us are making mistakes. So having that opportunity to make your mistakes, and then have a conversation and then say, Oh, I'm sorry I didn't get that right. I think men get given less grace with that. From what I see, what do you what do you feel? And what do you see? Do you get given advice all the time,
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the unsolicited pairing advice. Rachel, I did a big TV thing about it, and it's, you know you should, you need to.
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This is how you know, and you know, that's why I say to dads.
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When somebody says to you or you know what you should do, just say, I do actually. Thank you.
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We accept cultural differences.
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There are some cultures where Bubs out on the mum's back all day, whereas if it was here, it'd be borderline child abuse.
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We accept racial and cultural and religious differences on the way they do it, but if dad does it differently, Dad's wrong. But the science shows that there's a great paper for your listeners to listen if they do a search.
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It's called The Science of the fatherhood effect shows that children, children with dads, have better mental health, better physical lower risky behavior, as far as drugs, more likely to have better academic outcomes. So I'm not trying to minimize mums at all, and it could well be too because if dad's still involved, it usually means that there's a good relationship at home, so there's cooperation and co parenting going on. So we can't just put it down to gender, but there's something about the way, even the way dads read, they find that literacy skills are better because they use more abstract language. There's even a study out that says Dad jokes help with children's language, because it's basically like Jazz. Jazz is the music is language, though they learn figurative and literal. So, you know, I'm hungry. Hi, hungry. My name's dad. Different ways to think and use language as well.
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So, you know, the the two combined. But what people don't realize is when they say, you know, women are built for it.
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Men have huge hormonal and neurological changes as a result of caregiving, and it's epigenetic as well. So there's a great evolutionary biologist called Dr Lee Gettler, and he found that fathers who hands on caregivers, their sons become better hands on care, their testosterone levels. So one of the things that happens is men's testosterone drops the minute their wife becomes pregnant, stops them being greedy. He stops in seeking other mates, leads them to be there. When a child cries, mums hear it.
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Prolactin, the hormone that helps with breastfeeding, it increases when a baby cries and a man hears it. Guess what happens? Prolactin goes up in a bloke and he can't breastfeed, but it's sensed in the part of the brain that is protective. So it happens with another hormone called bacipressin. So dad hears it as a threat, so he goes to the baby, brings baby to mum, watches mum breastfeeding, and guess what happens to his hormones? He gets a big surge of oxytocin, which is a social bonding one that keeps him around in that family group. So all of these things are happening. So men's hormones fluctuate not at the magnitude of women's, but it literally rewires men. So if we truly want more caring, emotionally and empathetically intelligent men, then we must provide them with more opportunities to care, and we will literally change them from the inside out.
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Oh, I love that. That's fascinating. A lot of the parents here have tweens and teens. What can we be saying to our tweens and teens about what they might be seeing? So Joanne Finkelstein, when I interviewed her, she said, when you're watching the film, ask them whether that female role could be replaced by a sexy lamp post, for example. And I thought that was a very good example of how girls get sort of sidelined in in some stories. What do you think we can be saying to our our boys and girls about what they're seeing around them, and that would challenge this.
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Rachel, I actually point out opposite genders. So we hear a lot of things. Let's say Jacinda Ardern, what a great female role model. She's a great male role she's a great role model. Because if we point Jacinda Ardern out to boys and go, that's what you should not only accept, but possibly expect. That's what she's capable of. She's a great role model, like she led a country who drive an ambition, not because of agenda, not despite it, and it's the same with with boys. That's why I'd say to my daughter, she's got lots of male sporting role models, but she likes Muhammad Ali and Ruth Bader Ginsburg because they stood up for things bigger than themselves. So we keep reinforcing this. You know, you can't be what you can't see. I'd like to extend that to also and you won't accept what you don't expect. This stuff isn't dependent on chromosomes. It's dependent on values and character. I'm not going to fall into that only being what I can see. I'm going to be what I what I dream.
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And so we can all be advocates. We can all have these conversations. We can speak to the schools, you know, and and our workplaces speak up, because maybe there are other people there who feel the same way.
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Rachel, my daughter, holds two or three Australian powerlifting
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records. No, great
00:28:10.378 --> 00:28:44.318
girl, wow, yeah, and it's because she hangs around me my computer, but also her her stepmom, now her mum, she holds about 40 world records. She's physically stronger than me, and she's half my weight. She's got more qualifications, more degrees than she's most superior in every way. But I run the household. She really, really enjoys her work in a professional and academic studies. And so Charlie gets the best of best of both worlds.
00:28:44.319 --> 00:29:07.319
And that's one of the things that I've learned when I talk to my girls and I've got friends where the the fathers, the parents, who stays at home and the wife is out working, it's it's not, it's not should. It's what works best for you as a unit and and raising your kids, because we want to create more opportunity for people to make choices that work for them, rather than saying, This is what you have to do.
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:14.579
Yeah, there's nothing I wouldn't trade over and over again to have what I've had.
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:43.119
There are times when I'd want to pull my hair out, but there's never a time when I think like, Gee, you know, I'd rather have more possessions or a bigger title at work or more responsibilities at work I can't home, is the greatest thing, but to see this kid growing and thriving and thinking that I'm playing a small part in it, being a dad's like being the bloke on the back of The elephant at the circus.
00:29:40.420 --> 00:30:14.519
Everyone's sitting there going, Oh, look at him steering that elephant making a walk, whereas you know full well, you're nothing but a passenger, once that elephant makes up so you can just hold on and do the best. But yeah, it's about choices. Rachel, that's what equality is. So. Whether dad wants to stay home, and most of the time that pesky gender pay gap is painted as something that is because we value men more.
00:30:09.539 --> 00:30:17.579
It's actually because of what I call the parental value gap.
00:30:14.519 --> 00:31:03.059
It's because we assume that women are better at it, that gee, push comes to shove, mum's going to have to take time out of the workforce. The funny thing is, the gender pay gap now we've really done well with lessening things like education, access opportunities have brought it all down. So the motherhood penalty portion of the gender pay gap is actually increased as a proportion contributing to it, and yet we can't see, gee, being a mum is the biggest impact now, because education, qualifications, experience, all of those have come up, but being a mum is still contributing disproportionately to it. What could we possibly do to fix that? Put some things in place for dads. You know, imagine if you have mandatory paternity leave,
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:11.819
absolutely, absolutely, it's insane that we don't have the this in place.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:14.940
Michael, what an inspiring story. I absolutely love the message you're getting across.
00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:24.380
It's a wonderful thing to be able to reflect on and try to do something about in our own small way or big ways, whatever, whatever we can contribute to this discussion is very helpful.
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:30.079
Where can people find you if they want to sort of follow up with this and have maybe a conversation with you?
00:31:30.618 --> 00:32:01.499
And I'm pretty prolific on LinkedIn. I'm a bit slack on some of my socials. I do a lot of talks recently with schools, but also with some men's groups, a lot of organizations, and now, recently advertising. I've got a website, but I don't really update it. I've got a book called who knew, from bouncing and barbells to ballet and braids, yeah, so LinkedIn is probably, probably the best all my Michael Ray solo dad Facebook page
00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:41.559
that I found, I found you on LinkedIn. You write some really interesting, insightful comments on there, and put all the links in the podcast notes so people can find you. And, you know, get him in your school to have a conversation that might be really useful. And if you want to follow through and find out more about what I'm doing, I'm on sub stack, which is teenagersuntangled.substack.com I have a website, www.teenagersuntangled.com and you can email me on teenagers untangled@gmail.com it's all the teenagers untangled. I'm all over social media, but inconsistent as we all are, I think there's too much of it isn't there. It's just too much.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:43.420
And that's it. Have a great week. Thanks very much. Michael, bye, bye.
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