Sept. 9, 2025
Smart Phones & Social Media: How it feels for tweens and teens. 159
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What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover? Smartphones can be massively problematic in the hands of the young, mainly because of what kids can access through them. Social media can have a magnetic pull for adolescents who're trying to figure out their identity and fit in, meanwhile predators are well aware of the various access points provided. So are there any positives? Is it even justifiable to give our kids a smartphone, and at what age is it suitabl...
What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover?
Smartphones can be massively problematic in the hands of the young, mainly because of what kids can access through them. Social media can have a magnetic pull for adolescents who're trying to figure out their identity and fit in, meanwhile predators are well aware of the various access points provided.
So are there any positives? Is it even justifiable to give our kids a smartphone, and at what age is it suitable?
My teens have very kindly agreed to chat openly about their experiences, both the good and bad, to give us parents a chance to think through our own approach.
We now know so much more now about the issues phones and social media raise, and I hope this conversation helps you by reducing guilt and encouraging you to engage with the issue by thinking clearly about your own values and the individual children you have.
NOTE: My daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD, which is why she has strong opinions on the subject.
In this episode we explore the pros and cons of social media platforms like TikTok, Instagram, with one of my daughters explaining why Snapchat is particularly stressful due to streaks and friendships. https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/snapchat-a-fantastic-way-to-connect-or-a-cynical-exploitation-of-your-teenagers-time/
What comes through clearly is the importance of parental involvement, setting boundaries, and understanding the impact of social media on mental health and friendships.
We give you the good and bad:
From predator problems, self-image issues, political echo chambers, misinformation, AI and a lengthy digital footprint, sleep issues, and stress...
To opportunities for minorities to find support and perspectives that differ from those in their school, ways to find role models, language to describe their experiences, creative outlets and ideas about fashion and style.
OTHER EPISODES:
https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/screen-time-for-tweens-and-teens-the-latest-on-what-works-and-what-doesnt/
https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/bikini-photos-why-are-girls-posting-bikini-pics-and-what-should-we-say-about-them/
https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/112-boys-looks-and-masculinity-on-social-media-the-hard-and-soft-of-looksmaxxing/
OtoZen — a new driving safety app
Are you worried about your teenager getting distracted behind the wheel?
The OtoZen app helps in real time — not just after something’s gone wrong. It has voice alerts, drive scores, and even safe driving challenges you can set together, it’s the kind of tech that actually helps your teen build better habits.
This episode is sponsored by OtoZen: The brilliant new driving safety app
https://www.otozen.com
Please hit the follow button if you like the podcast, and share it with anyone who might benefit. You can review us on Apple podcasts by going to the show page, scrolling down to the bottom where you can click on a star then you can leave your message.
I don't have medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
And my website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact me:
www.teenagersuntangled.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teenagersuntangled/
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/teenagersuntangled/
You can reach Susie at www.amindful-life.co.uk
WEBVTT
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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled the audio hug for parents going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters, and the teenagers are with me in the studio today.
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Well, it's a scrappy room in the outdoor barn to be more precise.
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Hello girls. Hello Phoebe, hello, hello, Amelia, hi. I've brought you in today because I've had a couple of guests on recently who've talked about giving our kids access to devices, and they don't really agree with the hard line approach of Jonathan Haidt, who says we should hold kids back from having a smartphone until 14 and no social media until 16.
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Now, we often talk about devices at home, don't we? Girls and I am by no means perfect. Hands up. I'm sort of muddling through myself, although I have to get out some clear principles that I would suggest parents do follow, and there will be extra stuff coming through on the podcast and on. But right as we go, what I want to do in this episode is to honestly unpack some of the issues in a more nuanced way, and to give parents a better understanding of the world through a young person's eyes, but also with a caveat that for each wave of kids coming through, it's going to be different. So even between your older sisters, the oldest, and the next one down, that was when there was a Instagram started and Snapchat started. Let's talk about phones in general. Girls, what do you enjoy most about having a smartphone?
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Social media, to be honest, like most of my time on on my phone is spent on Tiktok.
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Um, why?
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Because it's interesting. So it's a quick cure for boredom, right?
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I think it's well for me, I have sort of a love hate relationship with my phone.
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There are some days when I don't want to use it at all, to the detriment of my friendships, really. But I think it depends on also how you define social media, because technically, I would spend most of my time on social media as well, but I'm on Instagram. I'm on Snapchat, and especially with Snapchat, you can do scroll, you know, there's a Snapchat spotlight. All of these apps now have the videos to try to lure you in, but most of the time you're just talking to friends or putting stuff in your story that they're going to see that then prompt conversations. So that's a lot more social version of social media, I would say that, in comparison to Instagram. And then I would say Instagram is more social than Tiktok. That's what I would say.
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Would you agree, Amelia?
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That's the Instagrams more social than Tiktok,
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and that Snapchat is the most socialism.
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Well, Snapchat is the most social, as in you talk to the most people, in a way in this cos Snapchat is basically WhatsApp for young people, plus, like, a little Tiktok kind of thing, yeah. And I guess Instagram, you could say it's more social. People talk about Tiktok like it's not social. I have lots of conversations with people on Tiktok who are my friends. Obviously not random people, some random people, actually. What do you talk about? Well, I would send them in I'll send them a video which I think is funny, or I think relates to our relationship, or something like that. And they'll see it, and they'll be like, Oh, blah, blah, blah, you know? But you can also talk to people in comment sections, and it's really interesting.
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Comments on what, to be fair, I would say the comment sections are probably one of my most favorite things. Yeah, comments, on it? Well, I'm not on Tiktok. I mean, it's so I can't really, I have been I've had phases in my life where I've been on Tiktok, but I prefer not to be on it. And I fully deleted my account because I just, I find it drags me in so much. It really is a very different app to Instagram, even though Instagram has reels, which is interesting. But I really enjoy the Instagram comment sections.
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And I do remember when I was on Tiktok that the comment sections were probably my favorite thing, because people are just really funny. And you'll you'll see what people funny comments get.
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Like, yeah, the funny. So then they come up to the top. So then you see the funniest comments at the top that most people are relating to or liking, and they have, you know, however many 1000 likes and and you get to see how other people are responding to the same videos that you're watching. And so you know, you're either going, oh, you know, everyone else had the same reaction as me, or, Oh, my God, they've said a really funny thing. And then you laugh out loud, or you see other people's perspectives on the video that you might
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not have considered. I This is so interesting to me because I wonder how much of it is funny.
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I think for a lot of parents, what they're worried about is the toxic comments. Do they come through a lot, or is it more that they're just funny?
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The toxic comments?
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Yeah, but those are only on posts if you don't post them.
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You're not going to get a toxic comment, aren't you? Right? The toxic Yeah, you can see the hate comments, but like, those are also kind of funny. Sometimes, yeah, to be fair, I agree.
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Sometimes the arguments that arise in comment sections, yeah, it's funny. People, people, intentionally, rage bait.
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People, yeah, but, but also, um, on, on, stuff like the though, it's really funny, because there are stuff like, um, there are political accounts as well by the actual politicians. So there's, like, a labor account, there's, you know, conservative or form whatever. But the funniest ones the American politics accounts, because half of their posts is this one meme about JD Vance, right where they like, blew up his face, make him look really fat.
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But I was really petty.
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I would say that, um, in terms of toxic comments. I mean, obviously, as Amir says, If you post and you're the person who has posted, then if you see a lot of negative comments, and that's going to really badly so you can delete the comment.
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Yeah, exactly people do delete comments. But at the same time, if I go into a comment section and I see some one person has said something really negative or toxic, you often get a lot of responses to that comment, of people who then correct the other exactly interesting. So you see sort of arguments arising, but you also see debates and people correcting certain opinions
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also your, um, what you see in the comment sections is actually depending on your Tiktok feed. Like, if you have a lot of like, hey, look like, for example, if you see a lot of videos, or you engage with a lot of videos, which call people fat or whatever, then on, that's what you're going to do. If you're, if you're if you've got a video, and there are people in the comment section, Section saying, oh, yeah, this girl so fat or something, then those are what's going to come up, right?
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Whereas, if you've got a lot of like, if you like lovely videos, like loving videos, whatever nice videos on your thing, you engage with those. And you open the comment section, most of the comments that you'll be seeing will be the ones which are like, which relate to you.
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Yeah. How interesting. So, so one thing you said in the past, Amelia, that I thought was very helpful for parents, was, if you want to get a sense of what your child is doing on social media and how they are feeling, have a look at their for you. Page comments.
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That's a massive invasion of privacy. No, no. I don't mean to do it separately. I mean to do it with them. Just say, Can I, can we sit together and look at your for you page
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on like you don't like, I mean, if you're, if you're trying like, they might say, No, either child is like, scrolling on tick tock. What like me, my friends, used to do is we used to, like, watch like, somebody's tick tock together, like somebody would be scrolling.
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We'd all gather around, like, watching their for you page as well, because obviously it's so different to everyone else. It's interesting. We page is different, yeah, and yeah. So I mean, if they're just like, on their phone scrolling, you can always just, like, sit beside them and watch as well.
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I'm only asking because there's a lot of fear mongering, and rightly so. We were talking yesterday, and you showed me that you had started watching hope core. I think it's called, oh yeah. And then you got some horrible I
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didn't, I didn't start watching hope co so what had happened is, I thought I'd seen this video, which was like, if you've got any of these things in your search history, then you know, you shouldn't have Tiktok.
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You know that that's really disgusting or whatever. And it had these things. And it was like, one of them was hope core, the other ones. I was like, Okay, well, yeah, there's all disgusting. But then the one, which was hope CO, I was really confused, because hope CO is normally, like, you know, you know, like, you can see a homeless man being given, like, a coffee or something, and he's really happy, or people, people growing all together, just stuff that gives you, like, hope for humanity, you know, like, just, like, heartwarming. So I was like, Okay, I don't understand why that's on there, so I searched it up, and then I understood, right, right?
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So is there anything about phones, smartphones that you find stressful or annoying?
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I do find I mean, me personally. I'm not necessarily someone who lacks self control or discipline or anything like that, but I do find it hard to manage my screen time and definitely has an impact on my sleep. So I found that if I'm on my phone before I go to bed, I will not sleep anywhere near as well as I could. It's very important to remove that phone, isn't it, and also it's it's almost like an impulse just to if I have nothing that I need to be doing at that moment, that I will just open up Instagram and it's just, you know, you're filling the seconds, the minutes, whatever that you have, you know, your stolen moments, but actually that time should be going to something else that you could be doing. And if you Yeah, and if you sort of accumulate all of the small moments in your day when you're just, you know, impulsively going on Instagram, you could be doing something so much more, yeah, with your time.
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So I always have that in the back of my mind. So I have a very sort of, I don't know, love, hate relationship with it.
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Or the what psychologists are finding is there's something called the default, Default Mode Network, which is where you're. Brain when you're doing nothing or seeming to do nothing, is still seven to 80% using the same amount of energy as before, using 17 to 80% of the energy it would normally use. And so when they've looked at that, they've realized that your brain is actually processing things that you've been experiencing. So it's actually a very important part of our life experience. And if we're not actually giving our brain time to do that, then there is a wonder about what's happening. What about you, Amelia? Do you find, um, any of it?
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Well, when you say stress
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or annoying?
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No, well, I would say the only thing that stresses me out is like, like, Snapchat when you're in my opinion, that's for me, that's the most stressful thing, because it's like, you know, you've got your streaks and you've got everyone texts each other, yes,
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oh, I didn't do anything. Yeah, well,
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no, but you've gone beyond that because you're now, because I think that, I think when kids would go on,
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so, um, the thing, the thing that's stressful is, like, you know, you you can see that every you can look like, if you have snapshot plus, which don't get because that's that's such a bag, like, it's so sad. But you can see when other people are where you are on other people's best friend list. And best friend list, it's like, you check the most, and then, you know that can be like, Oh, who you're closer to, whatever. And it can just get really messy and, like, whatever. And if you're in a bad situation with, you know, this kind of stuff, and it can get very stressful, but,
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like, it supercharges all the stresses about friendships, isn't it?
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Yes, like, in my opinion, the most stressful thing is Snapchat, Yeah,
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I bet again, but it's, it's dependent on how you use it, though, yeah, because I don't put any of that pressure on myself. I've never had Snapchat. Plus, I've never, I don't have a big friendship group where I'm constantly checking up on, you know, where I don't know.
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I've never felt stressful, stressed about Instagram, Tiktok, any of that stuff?
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Yeah, no, no, I really like that. You've made that point. And actually, I had done an entire episode on Snapchat worth listening to as a parent if your child has it, or if you're contemplating allowing them to have it, because there are some really important things to understand about the stress that it can cause and that you can be aware of, or that your child needs to be aware of. If you didn't have a phone for a day, what would you miss most?
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Tiktok. Tiktok, the debate lives. I think you like the political stuff, don't you?
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Yeah, yeah. I really, really, I don't know if any of you guys will know this, who's listening, but like, There's this one guy called Dean withers who's quite famous, and he does debate lives in the evening for us, in the daytime for them, because it's his full time job where he invites Maga up and basically rips apart any of their arguments.
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And you love that. I mean, I have a battle with you that's, there's a debate on and you're interested.
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You're like, Please don't
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take my food. Yeah, you know when it's bedtime in America? So it's like, yes, it's an evening.
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I think for me, I don't think I would miss that much at all, but, but I think the main thing is that there are certain friends of mine where if they call me, then I know that we need to have conversation. Yeah, that's really important that we need to discuss and deal with in that moment. And so if I miss a call from them, you know, it's, it's crucial that I get back to them. And so I think I wouldn't be stressed about having missed something, but that would sort of be the one thing that would weigh on my mind, or, you know,
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so and you said earlier that for you, that if you're not on social media, or you're not connected to your phone, then it's actually the you say that your friendships, yeah, because that's clearly why you connect. Yeah. And I think this is one of the reasons why Dr Lucy Fuchs and Catherine, Dr Catherine nibbs have pointed out that there are some very pro social things about being having a smartphone, and if we just have absolutely no option, then you kids can actually miss out on those things. I went out yesterday with you, Phoebe to borrow markets to take gallery.
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I didn't have my phone here.
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The one problem was when we got separated around the market trying
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to find your tool. So, yeah, that was great.
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But also, of course, you know, there are the issues. And yeah, pulled out your Nokia phone the other day, which was the phone I gave to you little I said, who I'm going to start using this?
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And of course, then you were going to a concert, you can't, yeah, the smartphone for a ticket, you couldn't use it.
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Yeah, you needed the stagecoach app. I needed the train line, so I had to actually buy a physical ticket, which is good, but there are more impediments if you don't have access to these devices.
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My least favorite form of social media is Snapchat.
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Tell me, I just buy Snapchat.
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Why? It's just, like, it's just possible. I find it a bit pointless. Like, if you if you want to talk to people, you can use, I message you can use without having that social media. And second of all, is like, as I said before, it's just really stressful. I find it really stressful. And I think a lot of other people also find it quite. Trustful. I mean, maybe not Phoebe, cos she's just different, yeah?
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But you also, I mean, I've noticed that when it comes to people in relationships, for example, it's easy for people to see who else they're talking to. That's best friend list, yeah? And that becomes, I mean, you know, like, whether it's an emotional relationship, or whether it's just a friendship, I can I think that can cause real friction.
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Well, all of my really close, like, or even, you know, romantic relationship, we've always taken things off Snapchat. Yeah, interesting. So I think especially, I don't know, maturing, you would never ask someone for their Snapchat when you're 18, that's like, that's an immediate red flag if, yeah, no, if a guy comes up to me or whatever, if someone comes up to me and asks my snap exactly, then, then it's instantly like, okay,
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like, friends, like, because I'm going to new school in September, this, September today, but like, on Friday, I'm going to a new school. And if they're like, Oh yeah, I can, like, I get your stuff, it'd be like, yeah, sure, because it's like, a form of social media, yeah, okay, and I will talk to them on Snapchat. But my point is, I just wish that it was wasn't on Snapchat.
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I love that.
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Yes, one
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of the things that I do like about Snapchat is that you send each other videos, which, no, like, I'm trying. That's true. People, it's not the same thing at all. Mini vlogs, yeah, where you just like, yap to the phone, yes.
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But on WhatsApp, you make me laugh because you'll send me something, you'll write something, and then you'll send a photo of your face. And I said, Why did you say no, you
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replied to it, you're reply to it, you'd be like, Oh, you look so pretty. Or you're like, that's not attractive.
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But then you say, Mum, that's just me showing you my what my mood is. I want you
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know, it's more like, like, if, first of all, it's habit from fracture, yeah.
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Second of all, it's like, if we if I've said something and I can't affect tone to it, and you might take or, like, it might come across the wrong way. I said a photo to be like, oh, like, you know,
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so we don't use grammar anymore. We just, you basically send photos of our faces. What do you mean? How do you use grammar to
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affect tone? It's good point. Yeah. And then, like, also, if it's at the end of your conversation and I don't leave you in red. I sometimes send a picture because it's like, oh,
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this is just like, and that's the other thing, isn't it? With with social media, with phones, is this whole instant always on world thing you end up in when you're when you have a smartphone, because there's this element of, once you've read a message, you have to respond to it. This is sort of young person code, which is not old person.
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CO so I leave, I've got lots of friends where I I'll read their message, and I'll leave it for a day. So infused time to get back
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to the thing is, you'll just leave your phone open on the countertop. You've opened someone's message. You'll just leave it like that, and I'm on the other end of the phone, and I can see that you've read my message, and I'll just be waiting if you reply, no.
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But the problem with that is, if you can read somebody's message without opening it, when you open a message, it's saying, Okay, I've now read your message, and I'm ready to reply, yeah, and like, I'm ready to reply, but I'm not going to reply because, you know, I'm annoyed at you or something,
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and I like, you know what? I love that you have your own this is new manners.
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This is your, yeah, this is where I'm not understanding your it's a version of manners which is a good thing, and I can see why that's frustrating for you.
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And I'm very, very sorry change, but,
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oh my god,
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you reply when i Whenever Amir and I have done something a little bit, you know, off, or we're asking for forgiveness, or something, you're applying. Okay, full stop, oh
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my god, wow.
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And you'll be on the other end of the phone going, Oh yeah, I've just said, Okay.
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Like, I'm a bit annoyed, but that's and we're losing our minds, like, Oh my God. She's just said, Okay, full stop.
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She's so angry you
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don't really use, like, unless you're annoyed at somebody,
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or you're, like, trying to hammer a point home? Yeah, yes,
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one of you did actually say to me, can you stop using full stops? I just went, what? Okay, right. So, yeah, it's fascinating. So are there, What rules do you think are absolutely fair around phones?
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Let's see. Let's Okay, let's go to parents who've got young kids, they're going to give their phones. First of all, what do you think about not giving a child a
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smartphone? Don't give a kid a smartphone until maybe not 14, but they have to at least be, you know, 12, I would say, because
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we're 13. Why 12? Why 13? Why?
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Like, why does a kid need a phone in primary school, also Snapchat, like that child, in my opinion, having Snapchat when you're that young is a bit iffy as well. Like, why before any I mean, before 12, I mean, or even before 14, I find because there are videos on Snapchat. Like, I'm gonna give it to you straight there. Yes.
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People on Snapchat who does not, who do not have good intentions, and they use Snapchat, well, they're on everything, aren't they? Yeah, because, because they know the young kids use Snapchat same as Roblox.
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It's interesting, because I always said to you, do not talk to people you don't know. But I'm very interested. Did you have you had, even in spite of that, have you had
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:35.960
people approaching Yeah, because that's how Snapchat works, right? You know, there's a thing called Quick ad where, yes, you see it's like on Instagram, you have people following you who you don't know it's the same as that, but you have to add them back. And that's just how it works. And you know, you have mutuals, so you can see that somebody like has they're like, friends with someone who you're friends with.
00:20:36.259 --> 00:20:52.420
But the thing is, you don't know who that. You don't know whether they actually, yes, you don't know if they know each other and you don't know who they're friends with as well. So it could be someone who you don't even know who you're just friends with by, you know, accident or whatever, but yeah, like, that's just how Snapchat works. Which is why I would say, like,
00:20:53.380 --> 00:21:40.759
the problem is, is that it depends also, at, you know, you say prep, like, primary school or prep school. But that's different stages of some people, some people stay at primary school until 13. Some people leave at 11. And so you go through different phases of maturing at different times, but so it's quite hard to give a prescriptive age, because also your child might be very mature and might understand all of the ramifications of having, like, all of these social media platforms. I think it's like AI in the sense that it's sort of a tool, and if you're equipped with enough knowledge as to how to use that tool correctly and responsibly, then you can have fun and, you know, enjoy it and whatever. But if, if it's clear that your child does not understand all of the potential harms and dangers, they should not be having a smartphone.
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:41.319
Yeah, that's
00:21:41.440 --> 00:22:15.599
what it is. Also a problem with there are also problems with not giving your kid Snapchat until whatever age because of everybody else has it, and especially like 12, 1314, really, really like tumultuous ages. I feel really, really awful for any 12, 1314, year olds right now, because it's really, really hard being like, but maybe that extra thing to mean that you're going to be left out is just like, I think that's really hard. All I'm saying is be careful. So if Phoebe
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:37.039
you because you're my first child, which means I experimented on you, but I really held I held you both back, but you we went through co bit, so I was more lax with Amelia, but with you, I really held you back. Yeah, and then you went from junior school to senior school, and you'd only just been given access to phone.
00:22:37.278 --> 00:22:44.558
So it was different for us, because the school we were at, had a very, very, very strict, known phone, and I
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:58.480
chose this policy, like for you when you moved. I specifically chose that school because I looked at kids at your old school who were six, seven, walking around with smartphones, and I just panicked. Yeah, absolutely not.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:19.019
There are other reasons I chose that school, but I really was not ready, and I didn't think it was the right thing, and I already knew that they were starting to talk in a different way, and there were all sorts of things going on. So you moved to a senior school with only just having access to social media and to a phone. How did that impact you?
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:37.699
I think, Well, I've been aware of it from a young age, but I, I think even though Amina and I are definitely in the same generation, we sort of, we both left school at different times through lockdown at different times. Yeah, absolutely. So I missed the whole introduction to Tiktok and everything like that.
00:23:37.699 --> 00:23:44.439
So I that completely went over my head. So everyone was doing dances and things like that, and that just was not me. I did not understand it because
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:48.460
you were, when I was introduced to Tiktok, you were, it was your first year at senior
00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:52.180
school. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I completely missed her. I missed the boat. So she
00:23:52.420 --> 00:24:05.759
she also she was sitting there and she'd go out to a break, and all the girls were on their phones. And Phoebe was not used to that at all. She was used to playing, you know, like cards and things.
00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:08.160
And so she would call me and say, Mommy, I don't know what, like these girls,
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:27.259
but also I was at at that time, I really hated my device. I really because I didn't really know how to manage myself. I still don't really, but I was really hard on myself with my screen time, and so I would not really want to use Snapchat or anything like that.
00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:36.019
And then that would exclude me from grades, because everyone was on SNAP turn. So, you know, people would arrange to do things, and then I wouldn't be in a minute, or things like that. And if
00:24:36.019 --> 00:24:48.278
you start off behind, yeah, then actually, what happens is, I think when you go into a school, you get sort of bunched as, or you get labeled as that person, and then it's very hard to shift the narrative.
00:24:48.338 --> 00:25:04.919
Yeah, and not, not that I minded at the time. I've never been someone who struggles with FOMO, so just, I was just kind of like, I don't really, you know, yes, but, but looking back, yeah, they were totally different. Yeah. Yeah, but looking back, you know, I definitely was not as integrated as I could have been.
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:30.079
One of the things I'd like to ask you, Phoebe, is, I think the way that you and your schoolmates approached social media at a young age was a bit different to Amelia. And I'm just saying that because I think immediates friendship group tended to be kind of, oh, body positive. And, you know, doesn't matter what size you are, but I think you had a different experience from that. What are your thoughts?
00:25:30.380 --> 00:26:16.559
Yeah, well, I think people didn't handle the like movement into secondary school so well, and you ended up with our entire year getting very upset, like, sort of obsessed with this toxic, you know, body, idealistic, body, online, interesting, and so people would be using Pinterest was a big one Instagram, but, you know, they would follow certain people who had, you know, very unrealistic body images and, you know, super skinny models and things like that, or make Pinterest boards of them, and everyone was doing it, and that's how they would watch social media, or like they would watch runway shows and use it as inspiration, or something like that. Yes, yeah. So that was
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.019
fascinating.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:36.380
And I guess one of the things that I've noticed is I think it really depends on the school. So I think that social media can be a real problem. I think there are definitely problems with it, but I think whether you end up in these kind of groups of of social contagion really depends on the people around you. What do you think?
00:26:36.440 --> 00:27:01.619
No, 100% and and also, I mean, in a very strange way. It was sort of used as the way of socializing, like people would skip dinner in groups. Oh, wow, yeah, yeah. So you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't go to dinner on your own. So then if everyone was skipping dinner, then you must skip dinner with that. Do you know what I mean? So it was kind of like a, it was a social Yeah, yeah,
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.019
interesting.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:11.880
Yeah, yeah. Because I, when I was at school, I did a whole load of meal skipping, but that was very much me, doing it alone, rather than with other groups of people. Very interesting.
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:47.140
But, you know, one of the things so I work as a waitress, one of the things which I really, really hate seeing, is how many parents bring their kids for an evening out, and the kids are just on their phones, as in. So yesterday, I was clearing a table, and there were these two kids sitting on we have, like, sofa things by fireplace, and they were just on their phones, and their parents were next to them, who weren't on the sofas, and they were having a really nice meal or whatever on this, like, Table for two, and they'd put their kids on the sofa, literally just on their phones.
00:27:47.140 --> 00:28:12.539
And I was like, What is the point of and these kids are, like, six, maybe seven, and what is the point of bringing your kids if you're not even going to eat with them, and they're on their phones the whole time? I think one really, really important thing, oh, wait, I normally don't like many rules concerning phones. One really important thing, though, is you cannot have if you sit down for dinner together, you shouldn't have phones. Then we have that rule. And I think it's a really good thing, yeah,
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:31.460
and it's I, what I find interesting is, again, I'm not going to judge parents, because I would look at that and think, Well, maybe those parents don't get a break, maybe they can't afford a babysitter. Maybe they just want, I don't know whatever's happening with six or seven. I know it's very depressing at that point. Just like, or at least have them on your table.
00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:31.700
Yeah. And they have games there, yeah?
00:28:32.778 --> 00:28:35.058
Place we have like, all these, like, different games.
00:28:35.058 --> 00:28:36.259
You have car games, yeah?
00:28:37.220 --> 00:29:31.039
And that we used to actually just play hangman or things, didn't we? We always played like the monster game when we were at restaurants. We always take we always take things. But um, coming back to this, I think what I find really interesting, and I'd love to know what listeners do at home. I was surprised by how many people don't sit down as a family to dinner. And I'm again, I'm again, I'm not going to judge, because I don't know why, but I really think that that's one of those really important opportunities, a to talk about everything in the world, everything that's going on. Have experience of taking your turn in having conversations, listen to each other, right? And also, as a parent, you get to notice if you one child's down and feeling a bit miserable. Yeah, you see, right? Yeah. So, and what do you feel? Because we have quite a set ritual, ritual, yeah, at dinner time every we always lay the table. We and
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:43.000
I think, you know, from when we were really young, obviously we had earlier bedtimes and everything, yeah, so we wouldn't eat with you. But I think from quite a young age, we would start. We started having family meals.
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.579
Oh, I had two meals. Yeah, I would sit with you, yeah, I remember that.
00:29:45.579 --> 00:30:38.240
No, I remember that. But I think it's really good as well, because your kids, I mean, we were talking about this the other day, kids are a lot more intelligent, I think, and subservant. Incentive exactly than I think parents give them credit for, yeah, and they're picking up on certain social skills and conversation topics and things like that. And so when you have them at the table with adults, and they get to observe adults interacting, and, you know, engage in those discussions as well, I think you're allowing them to develop really, really important things, whereas when you kind of pigeonhole them and say, like, okay, you know, you just go sit over there with your device, yeah, your device, or whatever, you know, that's, that's then what, what you're teaching them is the norm, and you're telling them that's how they should, yeah, I don't know. I think that's their other they're not mature.
00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:43.359
What we are doing, presumably, is impacting on what you think is normal.
00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:47.378
I think if your child does have ADHD, you need to limit their phone use.
00:30:47.378 --> 00:31:04.919
Yes, it's and it's it's really hard, because I think when parents have got children who are neurodivergent, it can be extra exhausting and stress worrying, and it can be a way of, sort of just getting a break. But at the same time, those children need more regulation.
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:22.519
Also, you know, one of the things which I've seen people say that, you know, ADHD is caused by devices. I was thinking about this a bit earlier. I don't think it's necessarily caused by devices. I think people with ADHD tend to be on devices a lot more, because it's a cure for the lack of dopamine that they have.
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.199
Yes, and that's a
00:31:24.318 --> 00:31:42.459
vicious cycle exactly because it has been proven that attention spans are decreasing because of devices, cause of DH, no, no, I'm not. I'm not saying that. I but I just said it's a vicious cycle. So the attention then, is not being you know, it's your brain is a muscle that you have to exercise.
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:54.519
So, yeah, very much. So interestingly, so what do you when you're choosing to follow, or do you choose to follow? How do you choose who you're going to follow? And do you ever curate?
00:31:55.298 --> 00:31:57.278
Oh, you're following.
00:31:55.298 --> 00:32:48.999
Jenny, do you I'm constantly following around, following people? Are you not? In terms of why? Well, not people my age, really, as in, you know, if someone from my school or something follows me or requests follow me, then I follow them back, and that's the end of the story. Like, I'm not unfollowing people who in my peer group. And for like, I'm not that. I'm not constantly on the lookout for them, but in terms of sort of influences or people I find inspiring online, if I see a post that really appeals to me, I'm inclined to, well, usually, I'll then click on their profile. And if I find more in their feed that I like or relate to, or I'm learning or whatever, then I'll follow them, because I just want to see more of that in my feed. Because obviously it is the kind of the whole scrolling, you know, it might come up on your feed once, and then it's gone forever, yeah, you don't know if, and it's a big well done, yeah. But then, you know, then if it's suddenly irrelevant to me, then I'll unfollow. You know, it's constantly
00:32:49.119 --> 00:33:02.759
I mean, when you started dating a girl, did it have any impact on you that you could view other people living alternative lifestyles on social media? Did it matter at all?
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:33.380
Yeah, very much. So I think for people of any minority community, especially if you're in an environment where a lot of people are the same, it's very difficult to connect with other people who share, you know, whatever it is that you have that's different. Whereas online, it's very easy to, especially with the algorithm.
00:33:29.720 --> 00:34:27.260
If you go on Tiktok and you search up www, like women, loving women, or whatever, right? Yeah, that's a hard thing then. And you know, you do a couple of, you know, I don't know, swipes, yeah. And then, even when you come off that hashtag, it will just automatically start giving you reels with people, not reels tiktoks. I don't, I don't use Tiktok anymore. I'm on Instagram. But yeah, that was the initial allure of Tiktok for me, actually, was that I was seeing, I could see and access a lot of people who I could relate to and connect with online, who just did not exist at my school, really. And they did, obviously, there, there were, you know, very hidden, yeah, yeah, no one was out at all. Basically, there was, there was, like, one out guy in my year when I came out.
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:42.519
And, yeah, so I think it's, it's very positive, and you also see that community in action. You know that I don't know you get exposed to certain, like, certain ways of looking and dressing and things like that that you don't get to see, yeah, yeah.
00:34:42.818 --> 00:34:51.458
And also ways to flag up that you're part of that, yeah, certain way of dress, yeah, whatever that. Then other people can spot you and go subtle signals.
00:34:51.458 --> 00:35:08.338
And then also people talking about their own experiences as well. That's a big one, because obviously you don't have anyone else who you can relate to. So here. Sharing stories from other people. Yeah, online of that, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was a big deal being able to, yeah, yeah.
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:32.119
And I think that that's one of the, to me, that's one of the big reasons why, with guardrails, having access to some form of of social media can be very positive, not just in it, because we know there are a lot of negatives, but I think that for people who aren't surrounded by people who they can instantly relate to or that they feel very comfortable, yeah, it's such an important outlet.
00:35:32.179 --> 00:35:40.420
Yeah, yeah. I mean, even thinking generally, it's sort of the same with with role models.
00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:58.539
It's like that you you want to see yourself reflected in someone older and maybe not from your same background. Yeah, and so, you know, it's not just LGBTQ, whatever it's you know, anyone from any community. Yes, you what you want to see other people and interact with them.
00:35:58.659 --> 00:36:10.559
So do you have any thoughts for parents who might be scared that the people that their children might find as role models wouldn't actually be positive role models.
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.079
I mean, there's always that risk.
00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:24.079
Are there things that parents can be doing that would help stop that from happening, or that would help offset it.
00:36:24.860 --> 00:36:30.980
I think it's just genuinely just having conversations with them. Yeah, you know about because it does.
00:36:30.980 --> 00:37:28.099
It comes down to values. If they're seeing you know clearly, if they're seeking role models in people who don't necessarily align with your family's values, then that's a conversation that needs to be had. But if you're constantly you don't need to be checking in, as in, you don't need to be constantly on their back, saying, Oh, who you following? Who are you? Yes, who are you listening to? But in an implicit way, if you're just discussing certain things that you care about, like women's rights and things like that, then, then, yeah, then your sons, well, not even that, but your sons wouldn't necessarily, feel the need to go and find and you know, if, if they feel like there's a dearth of role models, then present them with alternatives. Yeah, you know that's good to suggest people, because you can't expect your child to go and find positive role models if you don't know who they are, either. So do you do your own research and say, oh, you know, have you heard of this person? Have you heard because, I mean, you're constantly doing that. I am
00:37:28.340 --> 00:37:30.500
Yes. There's a bit of writing, yeah.
00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:32.900
We know, yeah. But I
00:37:32.900 --> 00:37:34.639
think I do challenge narratives as well.
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:41.260
Yeah, I hear things and I will question it and say, Yeah, but that doesn't sound quite right, because I'm seeing this, and I think that helps.
00:37:41.860 --> 00:37:49.420
But you, Amelia, I follow someone, and then I will forget about it, and five years later I will still be following.
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:57.579
I mean, do you so does that mean you've just got huge number of people you're following? Yeah, right. Do you ever, I don't. Can you ever look at something and think like
00:37:57.579 --> 00:38:24.079
people like Phoebe told a mom that she's true. She follows too many people, but, yeah, there's more people than follow, then follow her. I think, well, that's that wasn't true, but she followed more. She she had yet she followed, yes, because she's so famous, but I think I really, really like, I think that that's just like I following followers. They don't really matter.
00:38:24.139 --> 00:38:32.300
No, I was talking more about a business, but also I but the thing is, a lot of people my age do care about Yeah, right.
00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:40.280
Like, I just find that ridiculous. Like, it really doesn't matter. It's so annoying when someone requests to follow you, and you think, Oh, wow, you know that. I know this person.
00:38:40.280 --> 00:39:00.219
They're mutual, whatever, and they only request to follow you, so you'll follow them back, and then they unfollow you, so just so that they can gain a follower. Why are you irritated by that, though? Because I feel like I've been manipulated. I don't care that I'm now following them and they're not following me. I don't care that about that. It's more like it's you have a question to follow me, just so that you can gain a follower, and then you un
00:39:01.539 --> 00:39:07.500
I don't really like, I it's annoying, but like, I don't really mind about that either, because it's like, I want to see what people are
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.539
up to. But you know what's really interesting?
00:39:09.539 --> 00:39:37.519
Phoebe told me, You're following too many people. And I thought, well, that's interesting. I haven't gone through and just sort of culled things that's not relevant. And I started doing it, and I realized that I was following a lot of things that aren't that I could follow separately on different accounts, like lots of gardening stuff, actually. Also I found that when I started unfollowing a whole load of accounts, the there were more interesting things coming up, because I hadn't seen a lot of those things, because
00:39:37.639 --> 00:40:21.920
then flooded. When I talk about followers, I'm mostly talking about Tiktok and very different Instagram. So the thing, because I don't really go on Instagram very much, the main thing with Tiktok is you have, like, a bunch of different feeds. So you have your for you page, you have your friends page, you have a following page, you have a stem page, which is quite funny, whereas, like, they're all these videos about science and stuff. Off, and then you have an Explore page. Now, all your followers? Oh no, everyone who you follow will be on the following page. I never go on my following page because I follow the most random people, and I can't be asked to go through my following my Yeah, my father. Then why do you follow them? Because I followed them like three years ago, and I can't be asked to take them off anyway. But what the reason you in your bedroom? Why clean up?
00:40:18.179 --> 00:40:31.460
Exactly the reason why I follow them is because if you follow somebody, they're more likely to pop up on your for you page, not that doesn't mean that everybody you follow will be popping up, popping up on your for you page.
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:40.280
The thing is, more you interact with someone, the more they're going to come up. Yes. So if you follow someone and you've interacted with their videos, they're going to be coming up a lot more, yeah, which is what I like.
00:40:41.539 --> 00:40:46.960
How do you decide what to share and what to keep private?
00:40:49.539 --> 00:41:02.159
I don't know. Well, it's interesting, because social media really hates me. I'm on my sixth, seventh Instagram account now, and it's through no fault of my own.
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:32.599
I swear. No, I just got hacked. Okay, you didn't have Okay, I got hacked and you didn't Can we just mention this? Yeah, no, yes, this. That wasn't my fault. No, no, no, but listen, yeah, what is it? It's a two step very Yeah, you need to make sure you have this switched on. Any account you have switch on two step verification. This isn't a criticism of you. I don't think I necessarily had it switched on, yeah. And if you don't have it switched on and someone hacks your account, they will go straight in and switch it on, and then you can't get back.
00:41:30.619 --> 00:41:32.599
Yeah, no, that's
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:52.420
true. And when the codes get sent to them, then you can't Yeah. So anyway, that happened, and I had quite as you know, I had been growing my Instagram account for a few years, not, but it's very confusing, yeah, but it's like, yeah, exactly, you know. And, and also some of I've had it for a while, so some of the older posts were reflective of me in a past time.
00:41:52.420 --> 00:42:30.980
And it was quite, you know, nostalgic. It was for my personal use. But also, there were certain people who I had connections with from my school who, yeah, anyway, I had over 1000 calls or whatever, but that all went out the window, and I had a kind of Ooh moment, yeah, I don't know what to do anymore, so then I restarted, and now I've got a much smaller Instagram account. But you said, What about well, it's very liberating, because before I used to feel I would genuinely get very, very nervous before posting or for putting something in my story, even though a lot of the people who followed me wouldn't have judged me anyway for whatever I was putting out.
00:42:30.980 --> 00:42:34.579
Most of them wouldn't blink.
00:42:30.980 --> 00:43:09.539
They wouldn't even see my story, you know, but I'd get really nervous because I'm like, this is something that I'm putting out there for people to see, and what if people judge it? But now, because I have such a small following, and most of them are just my really close friends, it's, it's so liberating, and so I love that, yeah, so I've been starting to have a lot more fun with my posts, like, I'll just put some, you know, a collation of random photos of things that I've enjoyed recently on my, yeah, on my profile, for people to see. And actually, I've been having a lot better feedback from that. You know, a lot of people say, Oh, I like this whimsical, you know, output from you rather
00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:18.420
than so it's much more authentically, yeah, exactly which to me, sounds like a very, very positive, creative way to use social media. My question is, go on, Mia, what?
00:43:18.418 --> 00:43:41.498
I have two Instagram accounts. I have my main one and I have my private only two, but I actually have four, but the other two were from like, 2020, and people follow them, and they're like, oh, like, I saw that. I'm like, I can't get back into that account to delete it.
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:41.498
So, yeah, I've got two accounts.
00:43:41.498 --> 00:44:18.958
I've got my private element, I've got my main, and basically that they gave off the same vibe, like, but my private has a lot, have a lot more, has a lot more pictures, which, like, I wouldn't post any of those pictures on my main because, like, there are people on there who I wouldn't want to see those pictures and, you know, just stuff like that. It's like, I don't want anybody. To be able to access this. Sounds like I'm posting my news or something. I don't want just anybody to be able to see this. It's like, this, this is for the premium, yeah, yeah, um, yes. And with Tiktok, it's like, it's the same with Tiktok. But the thing is, like, I don't have a priv because I can't be asked,
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:27.920
So approve it, right? That's a private account, right? Okay, so what do you think about holding back social media until kids are 16?
00:44:29.960 --> 00:45:06.239
Um, I think in an ideal world, I would advocate for that, but I think that's unreasonable and not feasible, because if all of your peers are on it, then you're actually missing out on a large chunk of socializing, because even though you know it's photos, you're still socializing online. It's social media. And so I think it is quite a formative thing, and we, as you said earlier, we're becoming more and more dependent on our devices anyway, just to function. So I think. Think a lot of things that are happening on online essential. So I don't know. I think, yeah,
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:07.679
what do you think, Amelia,
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:15.360
I think if somebody tried to implement that, then they would lose the election.
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:15.360
Really?
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:19.980
Why? Because?
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:21.079
But it's not, it's mostly 16 year olds will be voting,
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:56.440
yeah, exactly. Okay, yeah, but they're going to be voting against the person who's implementing that. Why? Because they wouldn't have been able to access social media until they are able to vote. And then, then, now they've only just come on social media like, what's like, a punitive vote? Yeah? No, Peter, that's people like, is, I mean, thing with the, you know, they've made that limiting clause, whatever the social media, whatever it is which limits stuff you have to put in age verification. And you know, people now 16 year olds can have cider with their meal two years before, they can read about having cider with their meal.
00:45:57.579 --> 00:46:07.199
But to be fair, things like Instagram already had an age limit. It said you shouldn't be on here unless you're 13, okay, but they just didn't. But nobody, yeah, Nobody followed.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.800
But they had age guidelines.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.800
They just haven't done anything.
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:25.099
So now it's 18. Is it 18? No, not Instagram, no, not to get onto Instagram, but to see some pictures, if you see something with alcohol in it, it has to be 18. It's something interesting. Well, I think control substances, yeah, pornography. But don't
00:46:25.099 --> 00:46:28.820
you think surely, surely, that would be a good thing to restrict
00:46:28.880 --> 00:47:02.579
access to? No, well, I mean, yeah, for some of it, but like, there's a lot, a lot of stuff which is being restricted, which, in my opinion, shouldn't be restricted. Interesting, um, you know, but what's the benefit of them seeing so? Well, here's, here's one example. There are self harm Help forums which have been created to help people who are going through really hard times, which now have gone have had to be shut down because they're they don't have enough money to create the age verification system. Interesting stuff like that. It's like, I'm, I think that this kind of stuff is actually really harmful,
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:31.579
interesting, cos that's actually a point that Catherine lips said. She said that this is when you start trying to say, when you create a law, you actually have to define the thing you're going to shut down, or you're going to stop people from using and the definition, definition becomes very, very difficult, because if what is social media, what does that mean? And if you say this is social media, then nefarious companies can just redefine what they do, yeah. And, you know, they're always get around that people can use. So it actually becomes quite a slippery
00:47:31.579 --> 00:47:37.280
thing. So it's Reddit has been limited as well, which I think is pretty stupid, right?
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:40.820
It can be really toxic. There's a lot of stuff on there which isn't toxic, which I like to read.
00:47:40.820 --> 00:48:03.059
But what about this sort of, the sort of more, the more misogynistic content that's out there that's being spread around. But are you noticing? Do you think about that? Does that worry you? Do you think social media? Because these companies don't care. They don't care about anybody. They just care about selling you stuff, and they don't, they pretend to have things in place and they don't.
00:48:03.059 --> 00:48:05.280
That does worry me.
00:48:03.059 --> 00:48:05.280
That's not being limited though.
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:23.300
I see, I see stuff like that. I see racist, I see misogynistic, I see all these things, like, all the time you can't, you can't limit one thing and not limit other things, which like, you can't say, Okay, we're going to limit the bad stuff and right? Just have it like it's almost impossible.
00:48:23.300 --> 00:48:34.579
They're not going to nitpick through every single person and say, you know, well, they're certainly not no Exactly. So they're just kind of blank, you know, knocking out entire things just co because they have certain trigger words.
00:48:34.579 --> 00:48:39.440
And as Amelia said, you know, self harm might come up, but it's a self harm help for us and that they and
00:48:39.438 --> 00:48:42.278
then people just call it rape, yeah, yeah.
00:48:42.278 --> 00:48:49.119
Word that tree, yeah, right. No, it's true. They just use a different word, yes.
00:48:53.380 --> 00:49:48.699
Essays, yes, yeah. I think also one not, not necessarily against social media. But something to be aware of is that it's so easy to get sucked into certain political views because everyone around you is peddling them. And because social media, especially sort of Tiktok, the algorithm, is so strong that you just end up in this sort of echo chamber of your own opinions. And so if you end up going down one route, it's like it's a positive feedback loop. You just start getting more of that stuff, yeah, very quickly. So I've had to unfollow certain accounts because they're peddling a certain political view to me, which not necessarily that I disagree with. I'm perfectly happy to interact with people with different, you know, political views of me. That's part of like, my own, like, policy, yeah, I want to be challenged, and things like that, but it's just people who are genuinely spreading misinformation online, people my age
00:49:48.699 --> 00:49:52.360
spreading misinformation. And there's a lot and a lot of that's
00:49:52.539 --> 00:49:57.039
that's also people my age reposting celebrities who are posting this stuff.
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:27.800
There's a lot of AI, there's this whole um. An account for this like, guy who was like, Oh, guys, can you please follow me that entire count was AI. I commented on video. And I was like, my hacker is AI on the video. I was like, why is like, why are you? Why like, posting this stuff of your entirely AI? And he was like, Hello, I am sorry if I have offended you. I am not AI. I promise that's like, that is the most AI response I've ever had.
00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:33.739
But that's smart, because you can spot that, but a lot of people may not be spotting
00:50:33.739 --> 00:50:39.500
it. Anybody who is of sound mind and under the age of 50 will be able to spot
00:50:39.500 --> 00:51:16.440
that. I think you just have to be so co like, if your child comes to you with some information that they found off any of these social media platforms, please make them question it and or, like, encourage them to explore different sources of information, because someone came up to us Last year and Stephen Hawking had just died, and they found us on tick tock, someone very dear to our hearts, yeah, maybe a couple of years
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:19.440
ago. Well, sorry, guys, turns out we then had to
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:26.960
alone. No, no. He died a long time ago, but you announced it as though it had been this very recent tragedy.
00:51:29.659 --> 00:51:31.099
Like, okay, it is
00:51:35.659 --> 00:51:38.840
sinister. We were sitting was not,
00:51:41.780 --> 00:51:43.599
oh, my god. That was terrifying. The other
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:57.219
night, talking about the Durrells and my family and other animals, and your older sister's been in Corfu, and I said, Oh, it's a lovely thing, and she's just and my phone started,
00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:06.300
yeah, but had you been listening? How do you how do you been listening? No, you hadn't had it. That was quite scary.
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:54.639
As a parent, this is all pretty scary. You had access for to phones for quite a while and to devices for quite a while. We do talk an awful lot together about this stuff, and there are boundaries so And thankfully, nothing awful has happened to you so far. But I guess the question is, for parents who've got kids who are going through early puberty, who are getting sort of sucked into all of this, do you think that it's just basically take the devices away, or is it just don't allow them to have them start with or do you, what do you think if you were going to sort of be a parent, or look at it from a parental viewpoint, what? And also, schools, you know, should they, should you be having
00:52:54.760 --> 00:53:07.380
devices in schools? You know? I honestly think that it's just case by case. I think, yeah, most schools, I think the schools, don't have devices other than, like, maybe laptops, because my Yeah, different learning abilities need different needs. Yeah, need a laptop.
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:09.000
This is, this is a big thing. My
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:16.800
old school is becoming a lot more restrictive as well. Is it on phone use that really, really pumping down even for the older years.
00:53:16.860 --> 00:53:24.559
But you see, I was asking for this when I was showing you around, and I've had arguments with headmasters where they've blamed feckless parents.
00:53:21.500 --> 00:53:40.360
And I said, Don't you dare, because I walked around schools asking you what your phone policy was, and you just had no no answer. Yeah. So this is, I think everybody's been struggling with this. There's nobody. We can't sit there and point fingers at each other, but so do you. So you know, most schools now are quite strict about the
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:44.139
ponies? Yeah, well, I think so, yeah.
00:53:44.139 --> 00:53:49.420
But what about parents? What do you what would you if you had to advise a parent? You saying it's a case by case basis,
00:53:49.840 --> 00:54:30.559
I think also you could, um, you could say to them, I mean, I don't know how, how well this would work, but just just a thought, and you could say that they can have a phone when they can prove that they're like, what's the word responsible with a device, you can give them like an iPad or something, and not necessarily give them free rein, obviously, and also not from a young age. I wouldn't say, give your iPad, give my iPad to a seven year old or whatever, but, you know, or an iPod or something, you know, some a starter device before an iPhone, and then say, so I'm taking it away from you at night, but I'd rather put in boundaries. But, yeah. But then also say, but, you know, if you want a phone like you'll get a phone sooner.
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:41.500
If you can prove to me that you you know, are not going to spend all of your time on social media, that you can be responsible with it, that you're not going to talk to strangers online, that you know all of these rules. And then, you know, see how that works.
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