March 17, 2026

Raising Boys In The Age of the Manosphere - Vintage

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Ask Rachel anything Three years ago we were asked by a listener to discuss how we can talk to boys about influential online figures like Andrew Tate, who act both as an inspiration to achieve great things, and a lightning rod for disgruntled men who blame feminism for their ills and cheer on his particular form of aggressive misogyny. Now that Louis Theroux has shone a light on the Manosphere in his latest Netflix documentary I thought it important to dust off this old episode because the inf...

Ask Rachel anything

Three years ago we were asked by a listener to discuss how we can talk to boys about influential online figures like Andrew Tate, who act both as an inspiration to achieve great things, and a lightning rod for disgruntled men who blame feminism for their ills and cheer on his particular form of aggressive misogyny.

Now that Louis Theroux has shone a light on the Manosphere in his latest Netflix documentary I thought it important to dust off this old episode because the information is far more detailed, and useful for parents of tweens and teens.

Whether the words Red Pill, Matrix, and Manosphere have any particular meaning for you, they are having an increasing impact on the environment our boys are growing up in. It's up to us as parents to help our boys unpack what they're hearing and sift the diamonds from the dirt.

My research into the topic has highlighted an urgent need to be talking with our sons about their dreams, and how we can support them in discovering role models who show what it is to be a successful man, without needing to humiliate and destroy other people.

Click here for tips and advice from the episode:

Avoid silencing your teen, even if you disagree with what they say. It's vital that they are given the chance to talk about what they're thinking so that you can have proper discussions about it. Telling them they are wrong won't help them think about the issues.
Focus the discussion on what is really attractive to them about the messages they are hearing, and help them to differentiate between the positive and the dangerously negative.
Unpick the words the boys use and be clear about anything that is sexist, racist, etc and why that's an issue. Remember, they are building their identity and they're allowed to make mistakes along the way. Don't shame them.
Arm yourself with real facts. If they tell you something that they've heard online help them to go to real sources, rather than simply listening to someone who has an agenda and wants to get lots of clicks.
Don't just focus on Tate, he's only one of the people espousing this thinking.

Potential role models: Look for men in your own community first

Mark Lewis: https://www.marklewis.co.uk/
Novak Djokovic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=867mtHTsaDo
Stephen Bartlett - Diary of a CEO (Business) His podcast has lots of successful men being interviewed.
KSI, Beta Squad, Sidemen, Mr Beast, Chris MD.
Bear Grylls - Chief Scout and outdoor

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Please don't hesitate to seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping. There's no shame in reaching out for support. When you look after yourself your entire family benefits.

My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
My website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact me:
www.teenagersuntangled.com

Find me on Substack: https://teenagersuntangled.substack.com/
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You can reach Susie at www.amindful-life.co.uk

02:28 - Who Is Andrew Tate and Why Is He So Influential?

04:44 - What Is the Manosphere? Key Groups and Ideologies Explained

07:37 - Manosphere Jargon: Red Pill, Blue Pill, Black Pill, Alpha, Beta & More

09:39 - Why the Manosphere and Andrew Tate Appeal to Young Men

10:28 - Algorithms, TikTok, YouTube Shorts and the Spread of Tate Content

12:29 - Outrage Bait, Engagement Hacks and Platform Responsibility

14:21 - Links to Extremism and Far-Right Recruitment of Boys

15:00 - Scapegoats, Online Gaming and Grooming Vulnerable Boys

16:45 - Tate’s “Tenets,” Inspirational Mask and Misuse of Mandela Quotes

17:32 - False Masculinity: Private Jets, Guns and Hyper-Macho Lifestyle

18:01 - Healthy Masculinity vs Toxic Masculinity: Abundance vs Scarcity Mindset

19:27 - Hustlers University, Quick-Rich Schemes and Monetising Controversy

20:20 - “She’s My Property”: Misogynistic Quotes and Their Impact

22:33 - Incel Culture, Dating Anxiety and Meeting Girls in Real Life

23:05 - How to Talk to Boys About Tate: What’s Motivational vs What’s Toxic

24:35 - Suggesting Positive Motivational Speakers and Healthier Role Models

25:12 - The Lure of Luxury Lifestyles and “Easy” Success Online

25:40 - “The Matrix,” Red-Pill Narratives and Promises of Vast Wealth

25:51 - Showing Teens the Scam: Inconsistencies and Manipulation Tactics

27:18 - Redefining Good Male Role Models and Positive Impact on the World

28:31 - Teaching Reasoning: Fact-Checking, Statistics and Critical Thinking

29:05 - Asking Boys What They Value in Women and Real-Life Relationships

31:00 - Don’t Avoid the Topic: Why These Conversations Really Matter

31:19 - Talking to Girls: Nuanced Views on Boys, Not Demonising Them

31:56 - Early, Honest Conversations vs Kids Discovering Tate Alone

WEBVTT

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So hello. I'm Rachel Richards, and welcome to teenagersuntangled the audio hug, where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.

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Hi there. I'm Suzie Asli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician and mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins. As a parenting coach and mother of two teenagers and two stepdaughters, I've seen the transformative power of getting people together to share ideas and support each other. So here we are welcome. Pull up a chair, and let's begin now. Suzy, we are going to talk about a really controversial topic, which I have been

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Here's one that's infamous. I'm not a rapist, but I like the idea of just being able to do what I want. I like being free. And another one, don't listen to the advice of people who are living lives you don't want to live.

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And finally, a good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. You've got to do something and you've got to do something fast. You just sitting around talking about it and hoping for things to get better isn't going to do anything. In researching it, I actually went down what people always call a rabbit hole because I was trying to get my head around what kind of language he was using that was so attractive, yeah. And what? Why was he becoming so infamous? And there were a few words that were coming up all the time, like The Matrix, yeah.

00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:58.840
So that took me off a little wonder around the internet, and I discovered there's a woman called Laura Bates, who's an author, and she's based in the UK. She spent most of the last decade educating school children about sexism, and she says in the last few years, she's noticed an increasing sense of hostility, aggression and anger in boys attitudes towards women, and she was trying to put her finger on what was happening, and she said she'll be in a meeting with these boys, and suddenly they interrupt her, and they will start trotting out false statistics about rape and claiming men are more likely to be victims of domestic violence and incorrect stats about gender pay gaps. And they were arriving with this information, you know, it's written down. And she said, She then said, Where were you?

00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:16.560
Where are you getting this information? And they'd say online. And what she then started discovering was that there's a community online. I mean, it's not just her discovering it. It's the truth is, there's a community online that These boys are accessing.

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And it's not just Andrew Tate.

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He's just one of the many people who are in this and she said, The worry is that you've got neutral boys who go out looking and they end up in this area.

00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:43.839
Now, what area are we talking about? It's called the manosphere. It's been dubbed that, and it's a network of online men's communities that oppose women's empowerment and support sexist and anti feminist ideologies. So that mounts that sounds like a quite a sort of little corner of the internet.

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Not. So it's not. It's not. It's actually changing. And there are reasons why it's changing. They attribute all kinds of social issues to feminists and women, and many of them support hostility. So here are the four main categories. There's.

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MRA men's rights advocates, and they're pushing for political reforms that will benefit men.

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And you know, making fun harassing feminists, other female public figures, MGTOW, men going their own way, claims that because women are such poison, men should entirely disregard them. They may date women, but they'd never go into anything serious. And in fact, some of them say, right, I'm, you know, I'm not even going to be friends with women. Wow, pick up artists or PUAs. And these instruct men in seduction techniques so they can better attract women. And the methods frequently entail treating women unfairly, insulting them, disobeying their consent, all those sorts of things. And actually, you know, Andrew Tate, sort of, he's known to have used the lover boy method, where you're you're basically, you use them as an instrument of what you want, right? And then in cells or involuntary celibates, and they feel they're entitled to a relationship with a woman, but they're unable to do it. So and this is a shortened phrase, and it comes from, it was actually created by a woman, ironically called Alana, in the late 90s, and she was in her mid 20s, had just begun dating and started a website for lonely people who were well into adulthood and seemed unable to find love or sexual partners.

00:06:07.620 --> 00:07:16.319
And it was supposed to be a positive space. She eventually left it, and it was then taken over by men, right? Yes, and in these communities, you know, these men say they're denied sexual and romantic partners by society. Women are to blame. And you could say, well, this is, you know, these poor men. But actually it's, it's become so problematic that there has been violence towards women and deaths as a result. It's really, so it's actually predatory. So, and if you think about it, you've got a lonely young man, whatever age he is, and he thinks, Oh, I'd like to get a girlfriend. And men like that say, Well, you can't get a girlfriend because all the girls have become feminist, and they're all left wing, and they're not interested in you. That's going to make you quite upset and angry. Yeah. So, so this is the manosphere. So I've laid out what we're talking about, and you can spot manosphere language. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because I chatted with one of my daughters last night because I thought, ah, let's test this.

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Because I mentioned the manosphere, and she said, No, I don't know what you're talking about. And then I mentioned some of the way she went, Oh, yeah, all the boys are using those words, yeah. I'm going to go home and ask mine, because we spoke about it in preparation for talking about it here. And they, they were really, you know, not interested in Andrew Tate thought he was hideous and awful. But I'm going to test with the language and see how, yes, how prevalent it is. So, for example, quite a bit of it comes from the matrix, the film. And Andrew Tate kept mentioning the matrix, and I kept he still does it. And I was thinking, what is what is that? So, what is it? Little Dog Whistle for the manosphere? So it's your other conspiracy stuff, correct? Correct? And this is exploded as a result of covid and all sorts. So there's the red pill and the red pillars, basically, they believe the world is unfair and stacked against men in favor of women.

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In favor of women, and that the overweight the only way of overcoming this is by becoming an alpha male, going to the gym, treating women poorly. You're awake. You're awake to what society has been trying to force on you, and you do things differently because you've taken the red pill. And this comes from that film, yeah, blue pill is a state of blissful ignorance brought on by refusing to take the red pill. So you've said, I don't actually want to be aware.

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I'm going to stick within society, and you know, I'm not going to accept that the truth, right? And then there's actually a black pill. And they argue that men are systematically oppressed, but think that the only solution to overcome this will be drastic, to change of society and using violent male means, so that's really the far end of it. So other words, terms they'll use alpha male or Chad.

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And a Chad is an appealing, successful man wanted by all women. Basically, you know, he's, in their opinion, in their opinion, beta male, a typical man who has not taken the red pill and is inferior to the alpha male femoid, or FoId, is a term for female humanoid, primarily used by incels and gynocentrism, which is a belief that women control in rural society. I sort of studied, looked into that a bit more, and actually it's this idea that women will only choose up and across in terms of status, so men necessarily, then have to either be one of the top men or they have to trade down. And I don't know how they are actually assessing who's Yes, it's very it's scary because it's so dehumanizing.

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Yeah, massively. So why has this become more prevalent?

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Yeah, and I think that's the interesting point.

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And you brought that up because he's, I mean, I've looked at, I've looked at him on it, and we've all seen him online. He's really engaging, and all his motivational stuff is really motivational. You know, you can't really argue with it, but it's all the other, all the other awful, toxic stuff that goes with it. That's the problem. But kids are, kids are going to.

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Be attracted by the motivational stuff.

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And that's absolutely right, it is motivational. A lot of what he says is very exciting for boys who are young, or men who are young, who want to feel, you know, that burst of energy about getting things done in life and being successful. And it's interesting, because what's happened is that, because, because, then you say, Well, why? Yes, he's successful. But why so successful? Why is he getting so many followers? And that's to do with algorithms.

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Yeah, and he's also appealing to the vulnerability in these young men, these young boys, you know, ones who maybe feel that things are difficult or they're not, you know, they're not doing what they want to do. And you know, normal, normal young male thinking, you know, who am I? What's my identity? What, what do I want to do? And, you know, life can be difficult. He's offering an easy fix, isn't he? You can have this. You don't have to do much.

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You just have to have to, you know, follow me and do what I say and not have any empathy or compassion to anyone and and go at it and be violent in the process. It's hideous,

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yes, and it's wonderful to have a strong man if you're looking around you and everybody around you seems to be overweight and tired. And you know, having somebody who's who looks fit, yes, and who's flying around in private jets and carrying guns and saying, I can do what I want, like this. It is interesting, though, because there are lots of motivational speakers out there, some really amazing ones, and they are not picking up the same interest as him, and that's where we come to the algorithm. So ISD is an organization that claims to be powering solutions to extremism, hate and infamy, disinformation.

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quite a lot of red pill content to follow on from things that have happened before. Now he's been banned from a lot of these platforms. He's only on Twitter, but his followers, he's encouraged. He's incited his followers to put things up that will then follow on when someone searches for this information.

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So say, a boy goes on and searches for, you know, how do I get a girl, or how do I get strong, or whatever, very quickly they will find themselves being pushed information.

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And he puts, he pushes the really controversial stuff that he says, and that gets spammed about, and that gets more interest because people are attracted to that.

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And so it goes, yes.

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So what separates, for example, Tiktok from other platforms is how aggressively the algorithm optimizes, and the volume of people uploading similar kinds of content, and YouTube shorts has tried to mimic that. And Tate specifically encouraged his audience to upload videos of him, resulting in, you know, his content flooding the platform.

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And he was encouraging them to post the most controversial stuff so that it will provoke arguments. And once you provoked an argument, you get more engagement.

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And then that, it's called, you know, it's click bait. It's standard

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outrage bait, and the platforms are not

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doing then they're not willing to be accountable, because it's

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their attention to them. It's really,

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really bad, absolutely. But he is not a lone phenomenon. He is actually part of this whole problem. And, you know, YouTube influencers are able to reach people by using clever key words and techniques.

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So I think one of the messages here is that, you know, we need to understand how these algorithms and the messages that people are using, like Tate, are being abused to to lure in our teenagers, and that they are being manipulated

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by this. They are.

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But, you know, it's very makes, makes them and us very powerless, really, in it.

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Yeah, yeah, that and is no accident that this is the same audience, these young men. It's the same audience that far right groups an ultra nationalist target.

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Yes, this woman, Bates, who was doing this research, she says that extremist groups are actually targeting boys at younger ages. She's read manifestos from leaders of those communities trying to target boys who are 10 or 11 because they're trying to figure out the world. And if you can start early, you can really you can embed your philosophy in their brains, and it's very hard to.

00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.720
Each Yeah,

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and, and, we all love a scapegoat, don't we? You know, it's ideas. You know, we love a scapegoat if it's women, if it's race, if it's religion, you know, well, let's blame it on them. And you know, there's a reason for for why something isn't easy for me. We all do.

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We absolutely are guilty myself too, and it's quite a subtle process that these recruiters use, and one of the hunting grounds they use is multiplayer online games.

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Because what they'll do is they'll go into the multiplayer game, they'll drop some, you know, slightly incendiary content, see whether it lands, and then they move them on to chat rooms where they're talking about gameplay. But actually they're, they're trying to groom them into these communities. So this is far right, because they're already, I mean, I have boys who game. They already have their adrenaline pump. They're singing in the middle of this war. So it fits in really beautifully there. Yes, absolutely fits the images, doesn't it? And she says, if the far right were infiltrating our schools, you know, or Salafi jihadists with these sorts of narratives, they'd be shut down.

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There'd be much more outrage, wouldn't there? So you mentioned that a lot of the messages that the boys are reading are very motivational. I agree. I decided to go into his war rooms, which is on his website, and I read his, well, I read his tenants.

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He's got, I think, 41 tenants, and, and, and it's, it's hilarious, because they, they're actually really good things, but they don't go along with a lot of this other stuff he does or says, right? This is a problem.

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There's, there's dissonance there completely. And the problem is, is an 1112, 1314, year old boy going to see that?

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No, and we, you know, he in on his Twitter feed.

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I was looking at that this morning. He, you know, he's using Nelson Mandela quote, which is, just, how dare he, how dare he, yes, but you know, he's trying to align himself with these things. Good.

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Yeah, you know, it just, and young boys will be like, Oh, wow, he's using that. Then he must be okay, yes.

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And the visuals, for example, on the manual, I haven't seen the hustlers stuff he's got, but the visuals, he'll go, he'll say International, and then he'll show in him in a private jet, and then he'll show a lot of watchers, and then he'll show him holding guns, and then him saying, I have a right to be with my fellow men. And all these, it's a caricature. It's almost funny, yes, because when you look at this, but what he's actually displaying is precisely what a 14 year old boy is going to think is successful. Yes, success. Why wouldn't you?

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Yeah, but he's giving a really false image of masculinity. Because, you know, we've spent many years trying to teach boys that being masculine doesn't mean you have to be like that. You can also, you know, embody the feminine. You can also, and it's really important that you're able to be soft and empathetic and compassionate and can talk about things. And he's just kind of got rid of all of that. So it's almost like we've gone completely backwards.

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Yes, and I get it, I get the message he's handing out, because there's this sense that, you know, it's dog his, his world, that he's creating, that he's he's selling is dog eat dog. You're either winning or you're not. And I remember it being quite a bit like that when my career started, and feeling like, you know, you either were going to beat the other people in your teams or whatever, and we were put into teams to try and control that, but at the same time, you knew that you had to be on top. And it was only as I grew up as a as an into an adult and a working adult, that I realized how incredibly powerful it is when you form allies.

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Yes, well, it's the whole abundance scarcity mindset. So scarcity mindset is, there's not enough to go around, and we're fighting each other for scraps. You know, there's not enough. So it's dog eat dog, and I have to be better than you, otherwise I lose. Abundance mindset is, there is more than enough to go around, and if we help each other, if we lift each other up, there is more for everybody, and it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's very, that's a really good way of summarizing what we need to be saying to our kids absolutely, about the difference between the way he's portraying the world and the way in Gen it genuinely can be. And unfortunately, our culture is very in a capitalist society is is scarcity mindset. It's all built around that. And if we can teach them abundance, the world would look very different in everything.

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Yes, yes. And he's using his platform to promote hustlers University, which is a quick how to get rich in the digital age, lessons ranging from copywriting to crypto investing. And so he's, you know, charging people for this. He's making money guys. So he's he's trying to pull in as many people as possible, be as controversial as possible, because the more people who are talking about him, the more money he'll make exactly. It's a scam, yeah, but he kind of seems to believe it. Yes. I said to my husband, what do you think of Andrew Tate? He just said, Who?

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So he's just not done. And he literally thinks he's total loser. When I mentioned.

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Who he was, and said, I really don't want to even know about it. You know, the really strong guys can admit their failings.

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They can accept when they get things wrong, talk about it. And this is, you know, not the sort of person I'd spend any time with. T

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hat's because he's incorporating the feminine into the masculine, correct, correct.

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And it's possible and really good and really healthy

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and the problem is that their version of How to Be a man in this, you know, dog eat dog world, is, I'm going to just do one quote of his to give, to give people who may not know who he is, a sense. One of his quotes was, she's my property. So if she's selling herself, she's selling my property. Like we're going to rent my house and I get the money, right? You're my chick.

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You're my property. You're going to sell pictures of my property.

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Cool. Where's my money, right?

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That's his mindset, that a woman is his property, yes?

00:20:50.559 --> 00:21:13.559
So, yeah, my I asked my kids, you know, talking about your husband, his reaction. So I have an almost 18 year old. How that's happened, I'm not sure, but that's there we Street, yeah, that doesn't happen, no.

00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:22.099
And he was very opinionated about Andrew Tate, and I can't really repeat what he said on this podcast, but he thinks he's an absolute loser and an idiot.

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And he said, Actually, anyone who's actually had a conversation with an actual woman would realize what an idiot he is. My younger boy, and he had a mate in the car, and I asked, so they sort of squirmed as I asked. And he was like, Mom, stop it. They obviously knew who he was. They didn't have many opinions, but were in agreement that he was, he was a total loser and an idiot. But, yeah, it wasn't a very in depth conversation. But the general was that, no, we think he's an idiot. He's horrible. My daughter didn't know much about him.

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I mean, my daughters know a lot about him because they are so incensed.

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Yeah, what we don't want to do is draw battle lines. No, I think because, and what's interesting is that a lot of girls don't really

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go for that. No, a lot

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of girls do, yeah, but a lot of girls don't.

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And the problem with, you know, the INCEL culture is they feel like, you know, I've got nothing to trade online. I haven't got a, you know, a college degree from the top university. I haven't got lots of money. I don't look like these guys. How am I supposed to attract a girl?

00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:32.960
Well, maybe meet some in real life. Yes, actually, they're perfectly pleasant.

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And how do we how do we approach it with our boys?

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Which is what the question was, wasn't it? I think that's really, really key, that we can break it down into, you know, what's the good in he's saying, which is all the motivational stuff, which is actually quite good, but maybe we can find that elsewhere. And then what's the bad stuff, like, what? What do you think is masculine, you know? What? What do you think is a good way to be a man in the world? What are your values in that? And do they match this or not?

00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:13.500
I love that, and I think that's absolutely spot on. And what we what we have to do is we have to avoid silencing boys. Our silence is their oxygen. Yes, these, these.

00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:47.019
So we have to be prepared, though, to hear stuff that we may not want to hear. So actually, when we say, What do you think? Like you said, we can't say when they tell us something that's uncomfortable or we disagree with, well, that's not appropriate or you shouldn't you can say, are you aware that that's considered to be misogynistic? How do you feel about that? We need to be give them a space to think their thoughts through, yeah, and be able to discuss them without us telling

00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:59.079
them they're bad or they're wrong, yeah, because that just shuts down the conversation, like we've talked about many times, or telling them they're wrong or saying, you know, you mustn't follow this guy or he's bad, they just do it when you're not looking well, absolutely.

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But also, okay, what is it about those messages that's so appealing? Because, like we said, I totally get it.

00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:14.579
I read some of the things. He says, yes, yes, yes. I'm gonna get up today and I am going to do that work. These people are lazing around, yeah? But he's also a denier of depression.

00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:16.799
He's a denier of all sorts of things that

00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.019
we know. Social anxiety doesn't exist, in

00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:25.039
his opinion, yeah. So, so he's just saying you're weak. If you if you have any issues, you're weak. But follow

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:35.059
we can suggest some, some good motivational speakers that they can get that that inspiration from in a healthy, positive way, rather than with all the gunk that he offers with it. I don't

00:24:35.059 --> 00:24:57.640
think a lot of them are actually looking at, oh, yeah, I want to beat women up and have them as slaves or any I don't think that's what's attracting them. I think what's attracting them is his lifestyle, his emphasis on physical fitness, and, you know, being strong and the other stuff comes in underneath that, because then they think, oh, to do that, I then have to be that.

00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:57.640
So it's about picking apart.

00:24:57.700 --> 00:25:12.960
Yeah. Do you want a luxury lifestyle? Okay, if you. On to luxury lifestyle, then you have to discuss how that happens, yeah. And it's, it's really hard nowadays, because there are so many Instagrammers who appear to do nothing and have these plush lifestyles, yeah. And I think

00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.880
that's what's attracting a lot of a lot of them, is that he's making it.

00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:28.759
He's explicitly saying it's easy. It's easy to have what I have. You just have to do this and this, and then they can sort of work at it, though. Yeah, he's saying, you have to work at it, but that it's, it's kind of, he's giving them a route map.

00:25:28.819 --> 00:25:40.720
Yes, absolutely. And he's saying, if you're in the matrix, you think you should be out there doing X, Y, Z, no, I'm going to open your eyes and I'm going to show you how you can do things a different way that will bring you vast amounts of money

00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:51.039
and and teenagers hate being manipulated. So if we can kind of point out that, where it's not in alignment, and where he they're being scammed, yeah, they don't like that. No, they

00:25:51.039 --> 00:26:05.400
feel, they feel that. So that's it. So looking for the inconsistency. So we do have to engage, unfortunately, it may involve having to talk about Andrew Tate and do some research, but it's, about looking for the inconsistencies in what he's saying and where.

00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:23.059
So this is good, this isn't good. And you don't have to be that the bad person to have the good PE good stuff like Nelson Mandela, I don't think ever, you know, force women into subjugation in the way that Andrew Tate talks about, and yet he's still quoting Nelson Mandela. I'm sorry, but it's not a good not cool. And maybe

00:26:23.058 --> 00:26:40.898
asking them, you know, who do they Who do they think are great male role models, you know, either in the media, but also in their in their daily lives, maybe that's more appropriate, you know, with family members or or you know, where they go to school or in their clubs. Who's, who's, who do they think is a great masculine role model? And why?

00:26:40.898 --> 00:26:45.278
What do they like about them?

00:26:40.898 --> 00:27:07.318
And it's probably not the stuff that Andrew Tate is spouting. It will be other things, you know, because what he's showing is a world where it's it's just, it's so harsh and so cold, and there are none of the beautiful parts of being a human and like, you know, being kind or, or what effect do you have in the world?

00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:10.019
He doesn't care about the environment, for example, you know, he was laughing about it.

00:27:10.019 --> 00:27:18.419
So what if you know, what effect do you want to have in the world? You make an impact on the people around you. And is that what you want?

00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:21.559
Probably not.

00:27:18.779 --> 00:28:02.640
Yeah, I love that, and so it's about having a group of men that you can perhaps talk about that might inspire them. I'm going to put a list of the ones that I've managed to pull out on our website so that you know in the blog post, so that people can actually see, you know, suggestions if you if you're struggling to find somebody who's online or who's a big name, who might inspire your son, and these are successful people. We also need to arm ourselves with the facts. So what's happening is, for example, this lady, Laura Bates, who was going in and talking to people, and they were coming up with sheets of paper, coming up with facts. You don't have to be able to have the answer immediately. So if they say yes, but say, Oh, that's really.

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:31.099
Thanks for showing me that fact that you think's a fact. Let's go and actually look at it, yeah, and show them how to unpick what they're hearing or seeing and question whether it's real or not. And this is about teaching reasoning. And you know, we talk about the three R's, reading, writing and what's written, actually, we need reasoning as well. And it's about listening to what people are saying, and then saying, I do or I don't like that, and that does or that resonates with me, but I can accept that I don't want

00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:33.559
all of Yeah, that's a great idea, really great idea.

00:28:33.619 --> 00:28:44.140
And also maybe asking them, we've mentioned, you know, asking what they think a man is, but what? What do they like in women? What do they value? Oh, I like that. Yes, absolutely.

00:28:44.140 --> 00:29:05.039
Women like the women that they know. And maybe, if they're really young, you know, they might still be at that phase where they haven't She haven't spoken to a girl, even though they probably sit next to them in Maths. But you know, who do they know and who, why do they like them and what do they value like? You know, their mother, their sister, their cousin, their neighbor, you know what?

00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:05.039
What's What

00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.880
does it mean to them? And give them space to talk about how you get a girl and how are they annoying?

00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.039
What way they're annoying? Yeah, yes. How do they get well,

00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:20.599
because this is stuff that bothers them, so actually, and they're probably really embarrassed about it, uncomfortable and trying to figure this stuff out. Well, actually, let's talk about it and give them tips.

00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:24.079
Yeah, right. We haven't got horns, no.

00:29:24.920 --> 00:30:04.799
And that point you made is really, really key, because my husband pointed out that one of the techniques used by agents who had been captured, if they were a woman, they were told one of the ways that you could save yourself from really unpleasant things that men might do to you is start engaging with them about their mother or their sister or some female in their life. So for example, what does your mother do for you? What does she mean to you? What does your sister? What's the good and bad about your sister? I don't know if it's always going to work. I know that these two, Andrew Tate and his brother, have a sister who's fled Kentucky.

00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:10.200
I only Googled who's the who is their mother story?

00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:40.759
Yeah, so this is we've covered what we can with this. It's a very big topic. It's incendiary. I'll probably get trolled for it. I put something up that a school teacher had suggested on Instagram, and I got two people trying to lure me into an argument that wasn't very nice, but I'm just, I refuse to be go to very savvy. I just, well, I just didn't care. I just makes me laugh. I mean, I just say, Well, yeah, why do you think that come let's talk about it.

00:30:40.759 --> 00:31:00.900
And they don't want to talk, no, but the discussion is so important, like, it's really important. It's made me just having this conversation is making me want to just go and check with my kids. We've had all these conversations that we've just both suggested really important. And we, you know, we get, we get caught up in our busy lives, don't we have of the day to day. But this stuff is important.

00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:19.079
And likewise, with girls saying, you know, how do you feel about boys? Don't just demonize them. They're not all doing you know they want they want relationships. They want to be successful. That you know, we have to be soft as well as you know, direct. You have to be prepared to give them the chance to say how

00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:24.680
they feel, yeah, and get the girls to call the boys out if they come with this kind of baby.

00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:27.980
Absolutely.

00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:56.980
What do you think? Have you had any issues with this? Do you know whether your sons have been accessing this material? Has it been talked about in their schools? It might even be worth just bringing out the words that we've mentioned and seeing whether they you know, lighter fuse, whether the boys you know are accustomed to using those words, and whether they really know what the origin of this stuff is, because they may well have clicked into a zeitgeist, but not really understand what that Zeitgeist is. And it

00:31:56.979 --> 00:32:08.878
can be, I think it can be the classic, can't it? We don't want to talk about it, because then it's a thing, and we don't want it to be bigger than it needs to be. But if we don't talk about it, then and they find it themselves, that's worth Yes,

00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:27.200
yes, absolutely. Our silence is their oxygen. So if you've enjoyed this episode, then why not help other parents? Tell your friends, tell the school, subscribe to our podcast, and it would be a massive bonus. If you please leave a review. You can also sign up to receive all the latest at our own website, where there's a blog, reviews, links.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:36.559
I will put the a few sort of names of people that you could actually look at that might help your sons find role models that are perhaps a bit more positive.

00:32:34.160 --> 00:33:04.920
The address is www.teenagersuntangled.com, and Susie can be so many. It's lots of really good blogs. There lots of thinking things that you can do to help yourself when you're stressed. And you can contact her and she will talk to you for free for 15 minutes, yeah, as opposed to some of these man whatever, manosphere people who are charging 1000s of pounds for a 15 minute consultation, yeah, it's all quality though. Okay, that's it

00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:06.420
for now, bye, bye for now. You. Now.