Sept. 2, 2025
Parents vs Teachers: There's a better way with the Good Schools Guide. 158
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What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover? When things go wrong at school parents are bound to feel stressed, wanting the problem to be resolved as soon as possible. But - in the UK at least - the current complaints system is "working for no one", according to the Government's Education Secretary. Jason Elsom, CEO of charity Parentkind, says there's been a surge in parental complaints, that are being amplified via WhatsApp: Quoted in The Times “We are se...
What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover?
When things go wrong at school parents are bound to feel stressed, wanting the problem to be resolved as soon as possible. But - in the UK at least - the current complaints system is "working for no one", according to the Government's Education Secretary.
Jason Elsom, CEO of charity Parentkind, says there's been a surge in parental complaints, that are being amplified via WhatsApp: Quoted in The Times
“We are seeing a tsunami of parental complaints. It is never right to name and shame a school or engage in a WhatsApp pile-on, but schools need to make sure they have thought through how they engage parents to nip issues in the bud.”
The charity Parentkind found in a poll of 2,000 parents that 38% had filed a formal school complaint in the past year, with the total number of complaints exceeding five million in just one year.
Common areas of concern included bullying, student safety, school discipline and behaviour policies, homework, and teacher conduct.
Elsom says says Parents are under enormous pressure with a cost-of-living crisis and ever increasing challenges at home, which sometimes spills over into the classroom, with parents complaining to schools about what they are hearing from their children and on WhatsApp groups.“
Meanwhile nearly two thirds, or 65%, of school leaders say parental complaints increased during the 2023/24 academic year in a survey by UK and Ireland law firm Browne Jacobson.
Nine in 10 (90%) believe complaints-handling is having a detrimental impact on staff wellbeing, with other knock-on effects cited including the quality of education being delivered (53%) and staff retention (48%).
Melanie Sanderson, GOOD SCHOOLS GUIDE: https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/
SOURCE:
https://www.brownejacobson.com/BrowneJacobson/media/Media/education
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01:43 - Common Problems When Starting Senior School** Typical challenges for students transitioning to senior school Social hierarchy, friendship groups, and academic adjustments
03:09 - Trusting Schools and Letting Children Settle** The importance of trusting school integration processes When parents should step in versus letting children handle issues
06:09 - How to Approach Schools About Problems** Understanding pastoral care and escalation protocols Tips for effective, measured communication with schools
09:12 - Managing Emotions and Expectations as a Parent** The impact of parental emotions on children Setting realistic expectations and seeking to be heard by the school
12:42 - Handling Discipline and Behavioral Issues** How to respond if your child is accused of misbehavior Gathering facts and maintaining a balanced perspective
16:24 - Understanding Bullying and Social Dynamics** The complexity of bullying cases and social relationships Developmental stages and the notorious challenges of Year 9
20:22 - When to Consider Changing Schools** Signs your child may need a school change The importance of timing and supporting children through transitions
25:18 - Supporting Neurodivergent and Sensitive Children** What to look for in schools for children with special needs The value of open communication and inclusive environments
30:33 - School Discipline Policies and Family Alignment** Matching school discipline approaches with family values How to assess a school’s ethos during open days
33:26 - Making the Decision to Move Schools** Factors to consider when changing schools Involving your child in the decision-making process
37:32 - The Parent-School Partnership and Teacher Retention** The importance of respectful collaboration The impact of parental complaints on teacher morale and school resources
40:58 - Resources and Final Thoughts** Where to find more information from the Good Schools Guide Closing remarks and contact information for the podcast
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Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the tween and teen years, where we combine expert research and our own experience to make this whole thing much less stressful and hopefully more enjoyable. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now, I know term times vary across the world, but in the UK, our kids have gone back to school, and for many it's a new place where they're having to adjust to a lot of different things, new teachers, new friends, changing body, extra school demands, and it can be an exciting opportunity to start a fresh it can also be a really emotional roller coaster.
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And I think one of the things I found hardest throughout the schooling of my kids is, what do you do when things go wrong, and how do you know it's a bad fit and not just a bump in the road?
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Between my four there have been 12 different schools. Yes, that's right, and with the latest fresh start, that makes 13. So I'm no stranger to moving schools and dealing with issues.
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Joining us to talk through this entire topic, is the managing editor of the good schools guide, and I thought she'd be really helpful, because she's not affiliated with any particular school. She's seen under the hood of a vast range of them, both private and state, and she knows how the different systems work and how they tend to respond to problems.
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Reviewers frequently hear from families dealing with issues, so they always have a strong grasp of the practical steps that work right welcome. Melanie Sanderson, thank you. Thank you so much for helping us out on the podcast. It's a pleasure to be here. So let's start with what are the most common issues that parents tend to face when things go wrong at senior
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school. At senior school, there's a raft of problems that can occur. And I think, as you've already said, Rachel, it's a really critical time in children's development anyway. So making that leap at 11, they're still, you know, when you see them at school, they're still essentially babies, aren't they? When you you know, when you've got a bigger child in the school and you see the little ones, you can't believe that your own child went there at that age. So there's so many things that they're dealing with during that transition process, and lots of schools make great efforts to separate toxic friendship groups that might be coming from primary school. That's one thing that's very common. They make efforts to make sure that people in the right academic setting without sort of stigmatizing those who are less able, perhaps, um, but there's so many things. And I think the other thing is that that we have to realize as parents is the children themselves are all jostling for positions. So there's a real Shakedown.
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They've reached the top of their primary school, the pecking order has been established for quite some time, and now it has to start all over again. And of course, they're at the bottom of the heat all over again, trying to perhaps fit in with the cooler kids or, you know, make new friends, etc. And I think those are the catalysts, really, for a lot of issues that can can rear their heads at that point.
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Yeah, Melanie, I mean, I think you've hit the nail on the head that one of the big things is we send our kids to school thinking about the academics. Who spend a lot of time worrying about the academics, and actually the kids go to school. My kids have said this, thinking, How do I make friends who, who's, who's going to accept me? How do I do this?
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And I think the toxic friendship group thing is, is huge and how kids jostle with each other. But the difficult thing, I think, for parents, is knowing at what point we should step in and how we should do that. So my preference has always been, I need to try and get my kids to sort it out for themselves. Is that what you see with a lot of parents, because I know there's a lot of pressure on parents to feel like they're doing something,
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yeah, well, look, I think you need to try to trust the school these you know, after all, these guys are the experts. That's their job. So in the way that you know your people that you work with, trust you and vice you know Same for me, when we entrust our children into a school setting, whether it's in the state maintained sector or the state sector, or any type of school around the world, we need to have a certain element of trust in that environment. I think there is that initial couple of terms, really important just to just sit back unless there's something really dreadful going on and your child is clearly really suffering, I think, just sit back and wait and see how it goes. And you know, schools, as I've already said, are really, really good at integrating these new people into their school community. And even state schools that I visited. You know, who we read in the press about how difficult they are, how tough they are, how underfunded they are. You know, I've been in many state secondary schools where they are doing a fantastic job of integrating kids right from the get go. I mean, you know, the last school that I visited, which is a really high performing state secondary in Hertfordshire, it's big. School, though they don't teach the children anything academic for the first half term, five weeks, interesting. Yeah, five weeks is all about indoctrinating them into the ways of the school, what is expected of them in terms of behavior, in terms of academic commitment, in terms of how they treat each other. And you know, what you see is it goes through school. I've never been inside a school where the culture has been so strong and everybody said the same thing to me. So I think, going back to your original question, they do know what they're doing. They're adept at setting the scene from the word go, and you've got to hope, as a parent that they're doing a good job of that. And you know, in the independent sector, in the UK, they're probably also doing, you know, a pretty good job of that. So I would say, unless there is something really chronically difficult going on that your child is clearly finding very, very hard to deal with, I'd spend a couple of terms just sitting back and waiting and putting your trust in the school. I really would. It's
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very hard when your CO, your kids coming home and crying or telling you things are very, very difficult. We have to CO, we have to be okay with ourselves, don't we, and our own nervous system, and just go, you know, yes, and comfort them, but not step in straight away. And I love what you're saying, because my daughter said that that first, you know that first year, they said, Actually, academically, it wasn't that important. When, you know, when they're looking back, they're like, I wish I had worried so much. Yeah, I've tried to calm down. My kid is still struggling. What's the best way to approach a school if we think there's a problem, and we don't want to cause a ruckus, but we actually want them to be effective in trying to deal with
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it. Yeah, well, all secondary schools, I mean, I'm sort of talking a little bit to parents who've still got their kids in primary right now, I suppose, or who are going up to senior school at nine. But when, when you join a school, you should be briefed on the pastoral protocols, and your child will will have a very clear hierarchy of escalation if there's an issue. So you know, in some schools, it might be their form tutor is the first point of contact, or they might have a head of house, or somebody like that. But there should be a very clear process of escalation in case of a problem. And also, most schools will have a pastoral hub of some kind. They'll call it different things in every school, but there will be other places where pupils can go and ask for help and then be redirected back to the correct channels. So I think, you know, I would, I would definitely, as a parent, if my child was really struggling, and they've gone through those first steps themselves, then you should know exactly who to pick the phone up to. And I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, because, you know, schools all know that a happy child will be a child that succeeds and learns and achieves and thrives. They don't want to have to deal with unhappy children who then start underperforming academically and that kind of thing. So I would hope that, if you follow the protocols correctly, pick up the phone, explain your concerns schools these days, it's not like it's not like when we were at school. Rachel, you know, schools these days have myriad people who are all looking out for children's well being in the maintained sector and in the independent sector in the UK, it's a really big part of what schools offer now. So really, if you make the point in, you know, try and be trying really be measured with your child's school, I think it's, it's quite important for parents as well not to bring emotion to the table, and particularly if the child maybe has an issue with a teacher. It's one thing if it's with another child, but if a child is struggling with maybe their form tutor or another teacher that they're not gelling with, which you know, it happens, but everyone's human right, I would, I would suggest to parents that they bring a very measured and balanced argument to the table. Very important not to not to let your emotions overwhelm very, very
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hard to do what you're saying is you're saying so we need to understand what the pastoral care team does and where who they are. We need to have an idea about how the procedures work when things aren't going quite right, and start out knowing that, and then just be very clear when we're actually trying to say something that we need to kind of dump the emotions on one side and presumably tell them what our expectations are, or ask them what their viewpoint is. Are they seeing the same thing?
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Yeah, I
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think it's really difficult for parents to lay out what their expectations are, because particularly if you haven't done it before, you just don't really fully understand what goes on in the staff room as a parent and all the protocols, are you really, you really don't and that that, I think, is part of the problem.
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It's why we feel slightly fearful, isn't it, sending our children off each day into these environments? But I think, yeah, you you need to keep it balanced, keep it measured. I think the other things just to say, as well, Rachel, that I always advise parents, is that.
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That your emotions, as you all know, affect your child dramatically, and when you're going into a situation, such an important point when you're going into a situation with the school, if you're not happy with the way they're dealing with something, it's really important not to let your child hear how emotional you're feeling about it. Don't let them hear your gripes about the school, but going back to it, back to what you you can expect from the school. You know, the first thing that you should really expect is to be listened to and taken seriously and not fobbed off. You know, you want to feel heard as a parent, and that's the first step, isn't it, for the school, making you feel as though they've got the situation in hand. It's hard for parents to ask for what they want, but schools should be very clear in letting you know the process and how they will handle your issue, complaint, problem, you know, whatever it is and what the escalation will be, and then they should ask to touch in with you at a given point in time, in the future, and let you know how getting on. It's
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interesting, isn't it, because one of my daughters was at a school where the biology teacher she was, it was a new biology teacher, and she was going into the class, and she just came came out every day going, I don't really understand what went on in there. And I don't, I don't understand the material. And I thought, Gosh, this is a daughter who is actually really on it. So to me, it was like a canary in the cage. So I went to the school, and what was, I'm just trying to give this an example of a school can deal with it really well. Where they said, Oh, okay, thank you for letting us know we are now going to put someone in the class with him to see how he's mapping out the class, how he's performing in the class. And then they reported back to me, and they said, You're right. Actually, he's not doing it well. And so I said, So what are you going to do? And they said, We're going to give him extra training and see how well he does, and let's all come back again in a month, and it still wasn't working, and that was the end of that. So yes, I mean, that's a really brilliant example of a school doing very, very well, but easy topic, though. Also to sort of clarify where you say, can you check on this? And it was clear.
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I saw a teacher thread saying that the best parents are the ones who say, I've talked to them at home. Let me know how they do tomorrow. No blaming, no gaslighting, because we haven't yet talked about, what if the school says little Johnny is being disruptive in the class, or they're bullying somebody else, or what, you know, so when it's us parents being told our child is behaving in a certain way, or they've got detention or something, how? How best should we deal with these things?
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Yeah, well, again, I think you have to absolutely keep emotion out of it, and I think you have to to a certain extent. And I do think it's hard for parents that were schooled in the 70s and 80s and to certainly the early part of the 90s, because, you know, schools at that point were not they were not pleasant environments. There was no pastoral support. It was very much the law of the jungle applied. I mean, I don't think that's just me, Rachel.
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And actually, most a lot of us that our parents didn't know what was going on in school, and actually bus in the morning, and that was it.
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I think teachers back then could be quite cruel, quite unkind, borderline sadistic, some of them, yes. And I think you know, because we have such rigorous safeguarding protocols in place now, you know, the whole keeping children safe in education guidelines is so rigid and so strict, and the reporting processes are, you know, also, you know, really, really thorough. I don't think that that is necessarily the case anymore. So, you know, as a parent, I think you have to trust your gut a bit. But again, I go back to sort of trust the school a little bit, because some kids do behave very differently at home to the way they behave at school. You know, there's a sort of a safety trust issue there. Isn't there. You know, sometimes they feel really safe to behave, to be a bit naughty and have the meltdowns at home. Sometimes that transfers into school. So I think you have to, as the parent again, suppress your emotions.
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Don't rear up, don't attack the school. Don't accuse them of gaslighting or making things up or accusing your child of things that they're not doing. I would listen very carefully to both sides and try to find out yourself exactly what's going on. Sometimes in these situations, other mums can be your your friend. You know, sometimes other other children's parents can have a better understanding of the situation than either the school or your child, because they may have heard it from a few different sources. So I would try to really understand what was going on. But I think, you know, the thing that we always have to remember is that in the main schools, want the best outcome for the for the pupils in their care. And I'm sure that all parents listening to this podcast also, 100% of them want the best outcomes for the children that they're looking at. All of them do. And you know, when you go into any you.
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Discussion with your child's school. That is the thing you have to keep at the heart of it, you know what? What is the best thing for my childhood? The best thing for your child is never for you to disbelieve or gaslight or berate a teacher who criticizes them. That's never, that's never going to end well for your child, is it? You know, I think it's all about listening, gathering the facts.
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If you really feel like school isn't taking the problem seriously, or your child is being blamed for something they haven't necessarily done, then, of course, you have the right to present their case, as long as you can back it up with the with facts. You know, I think as parents, you know, it's not uncommon, is it for Sabina situation where we say, well, my child says this, and then straight away, you hear from the other party, what really happened? That's happy. That does happen, doesn't it? It happens at every Yeah, it happens. It happens at every level. It happens in friendships, relationships, in school, you know, in outside of school clubs and stuff. You know, you sometimes your child may not be necessarily telling an untruth, but they may see things in a different way to the way the other party sees it. So it's just really important to understand everyone's viewpoint and just keep it very measured before you decide what to do next. Yeah,
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it's very interesting. I had a headmaster once when there was a whole issue about bullying at a school, send me a video of two girls having a fantastic time together, laughing, when the undercurrent and the belief from the kids was that this girl was being badly bullied by one of the other girl, and he said, How are We supposed to know, how are we supposed cos we're seeing something different. So I think, you know, when we try to unpick some of these things, they're so complicated, they're expecting an instant response or an instant answer. Is it's not very reasonable, even though emotionally, we can feel very triggered by
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it. Yeah, yeah. I think the other thing to bear in mind is there are certain developmental stages that you see through school in children's lives that that there's some year groups that are notoriously like that. So I've, I've actually reviewed schools in the past where they have a separate playground area for year nine. No year nine.
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Yeah, year nine. And all teachers will tell you this year nine is the worst year, because you've got different stages of physical development, haven't you, the shakedown is still going on. The social hierarchy is still going on. I'm not the expert in child development that you are, but there's something going on with kids at that stage where for some reason they just can't seem to get along and play nicely and just be decent human beings to each other. We get sometimes parents coming to our education consultancy saying, you know, my child's having a terrible time at school. We want to move them. She's not happy.
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She's not got any friends or he and then invariably, you'll say, okay, are they in year nine? And they are, and they are, that's a great tip, yeah, but it's so hard because, you know, I've worked with a family fairly recently where their daughter was in year nine, and they were, you know, they wanted to to move the school. And as the outsider, you can see it's not necessarily the right thing to do. You know, kids, they need to, within reason. Ride out the rough with the smooth. They need to take they need to learn how to navigate that. Because adults, we know that your life is full of you know, you go to work, there are people that you don't like and they don't like you.
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You go out and I think, yeah, pupils need to learn within safe boundaries, how to navigate that themselves? To a greater or lesser,
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Melanie, you're making such an important point.
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And I've spoken to other parents who said that my daughter's had a very difficult time going through school, you know, and same with their sons, but actually that now they're in the workplace, they found that all those skills I had to learn navigating those very tricky relationships are paying off because they're able to manage they can see these people coming. They know how to manage them. Yeah, that point, yeah, yeah. And I think at that stage, I think David Jaeger pointed it out. He calls his book 10 to 25 and from 10 on, they become absolutely focused on status and respect, and so that, that is where all that jostling is coming in. It's like, where am I getting my status and respect?
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And for girls, their biggest fear is not having a friend. And boys, their biggest fear is shame. So there's, there's all that stuff happening at that time. So yeah, I love that point. If their kid is coming home and they've the light seems to have switched off, yeah, they are now no longer really making an effort. How can parents tell whether maybe they need to move school, yeah, whether it's an underlying learning need, or are there things that you would advise about that?
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Yeah, definitely. I think that that can happen. You know, as parents, we all think we're making the right choice for our child when we choose a school for them, and sometimes it doesn't work out. And you know that's happened in my family. It doesn't always. Days work out, and when that light does go off, sometimes you have to ride the storm until the end of a particular phase of education, don't you? So I think if your child is in year 10, for example, even year nine, I would always really encourage families to try to support their child, to stay in the same school, get their GCSEs done once you're in that school, unless things are really unbearable or there's a really terrible problem which can happen. I think nine times out of 10, if you can support them through that day to day, just getting through it, getting their GCSEs under the belt.
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Because I think otherwise. You know, as I said before, we see it with our consultancy clients.
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As the outsider, you can see there's a frying pan to fire situation about to happen.
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Because, you know, we have to be very realistic about the kind of parents that we are as well, don't we? You know, if you, if you are more of a helicopter parent, we you can you normally know that some of us, you know, laugh about our parenting styles, don't we? And you know, can be quite self aware about it. So I think, yeah, I would encourage parents to just keep them in that space until a natural break points. It's really particularly if a child is low in confidence and has been unhappy or bullied or just not really met their tribe yet.
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That's not the best way to go into a new school environment.
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You want to go in on the front foot, not feeling vulnerable and that you failed in the last school. So I think Sixth Form is a brilliant moment to change schools. And you know, that's sort of 16, yeah. So when you've done your GCSEs, or the equivalent, to move schools at 16 for those last two years, because I think kids are, they're more mature there, they can make their own decisions.
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You couldn't. You could allow them to choose where they go next. And actually, you know that happened with my son just he went back after the the pandemic in the United and just never really gelled with his just didn't really find his tribe. And again, it's like you say, you can see the light go out. And as a parent, it's, it's awful to see your child on the doorstep. You know that? You know that back to school photo, when you see smiling in that photo, it's really horrible, but actually a change. They can slightly reinvent themselves, if they need to, if they want to, they don't, they don't have to, but they can just make a fresh start, leave all of that behind them. And actually, what happened with my son was he went to a new school, found an absolutely fantastic group of friends. His confidence flourished. People say, you know, he was like a different child. Wasn't a different child, just a better version of the child that he was before. And really came out of school at 18 with the overriding feeling being that he'd had a really positive experience of his school days. So there's three years or two or three years where he was just not especially happy, often have now just been forgotten, really. And so I think he sees his overall school experience in a really positive way, but also it gives you a chance, I think, to speak to that next school and explain why they're moving it gives them the opportunity to keep an eye on this child that perhaps hasn't been too happy in their last place. And that's the other thing I would say as well, is just to be really open and honest with your child's school when things haven't gone well, so that they can or the next school can pick it up and, you know, make it, make it,
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and they'll understand the narrative behind Yeah, exactly, yeah. I that's similar with my daughter. We were actually it wasn't great, but she's really grateful for the experiences, and she's learned a lot from it. And I think for us parents, one of the fears is that somewhere there's the perfect school, and our child isn't in it right now, and so we should be moving schools, because they could be in a better school for them. And I remember one mum saying to me that she had moved her son to a different school because it was more academic, and she thought her son was really academic, and then he got bullied, and she said, I've never forgiven myself, and I'm like, There's no perfect there's no perfect
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scenario you can never, ever rely on in the best school with the best staff and pastoral care, etc. You can never rely on the cohort that your child lands. Oh, yes, being there's a big difference, you know, you don't know what class they're going into. You don't know who the other children are.
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You're taking whatever decision you make. You're taking a massive risk on that basis alone.
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Yeah, yeah. And what about neurodivergent kids?
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You have a great guide for all these different schools. There must be a way in which you assess whether a department is going to be a good department to deal with their needs, or whether a school will be good for dealing with someone's needs.
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What do you look for there? There's a lot of things that we like to see when we visit a school. And, you know, one of those really important things is, I always like to see the Sen hub in the middle of the school, you know, open door policy, no stigma, pupils going in and out. You know, we've, we see, when we review schools, we see some absolutely fantastic environments. You know, they're they've got comfy sofas. Perhaps they've got fairy lights, you know, they've got a quiet space where children who need downtime can go during that real hustle bustle break time scenario. So I think for me, when I go to a school, I want to see something that's kind of really laid open wide, because you have to remember as well that there are a lot of children who are neurodivergent, that aren't diagnosed with anything, they might just not like, quite like loud noises, or they might have sensory processing issues or and they might just find it quite hard to go out into a huge playground full of boys and girls kicking balls around and, you know, playing rough, rough sports. So I think that's the that's the first thing. But the thing that we always advise parents to do, if they know their child is neurodiverse, is just to have that really open conversation with the school before they go. But when they when they're choosing a school, don't you know, one of the questions that parents ask us a lot is, should I tell them, is it going to hamper their chances of getting in. Will it be okay?
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:55.539
The answer to that is always yes. You absolutely have to tell them everything you know. Show the ed psych report if you've got one, or if you don't, if you're not at that stage, be really open with the school about your child's own specific needs, because they should, then a good school should then either say to you, yeah, okay, this is what we can put in place to support them, or they can say, really sorry, we can't. We can't support it. So I think you know, it's not at the scnd department.
00:26:55.539 --> 00:27:06.839
Is not just for children who are diagnosed with something. It can be so another, another anecdote of a really good example of this is my other son. He just doesn't like wearing shoes on his feet.
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He'd never liked them since a baby. His school shoes always hurt his feet. And the summer before he went into I think it was year eight, you know, notice, in year seven, he's walked strangely in school shoes. Year eight, the summer before, we tried on 20 pairs of shoes, and he couldn't find a pair that fit. And so I just basically said, right, you're going back to school in trainers. I'll just smooth it over with the school. Leave it with me. So I wrote to the school and just said to them, Look, he can't get on with shoes. He's coming in smart trainers. I'm going to make sure they're really, you know, they're leather. We'll keep them clean. I commit to all of this, expecting a bit of a fight. And the school came back to me and said, great, no problem. He's probably minor sensory processing issues. We'll add him to the list of boys who has got permission to wear trainers and the no one, wow. I think you know it's things like that. If you know your child has got something minor going on. Just raise it with the school, and their reaction should speak volumes. And if you get a school when I, you know, sometimes use that example, when I'm reviewing school, you know, I'll say to the Sen CO, you know, what happens if a kid doesn't like because, you know, some children with a bit of autism don't like labels or scratchy things in their clothes. You know? What happens if a child doesn't want to wear the uniform and or can't for, you know, for whatever reason, wear the uniform, can't get on with it, and their reaction is quite telling. So I think there are lots of questions that you can that you can ask, you know, if they balk at that, I would question whether it's the right school for any remotely sensitive child, whether they're neurodiverse or not. Because, actually, yes, school journey is very, very infrequently without its bumps, isn't it along the way? You know, when you've been through it, you we've all had to support our children through whether it's not being able to get on with school shoes, or, you know, not finding their tribe, or, you know, struggling academically or socially. You know it's going to happen one way or another. And and I think if you can ask a school a simple question about what happens if, or what, what about if my child can't, their reaction will speak volumes. So I think you know what we're looking for, to go back to the original question, is a really flexible and inclusive approach to all the all children's needs, not just those who have got a diagnosis, but those who also might just need a bit of help with handwriting or tables or, you know, normal things that Just to bring them up to speed.
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Yeah, brilliant. I love that tip. It's a really good one. And when it comes to looking at the way that they discipline, so presumably there will be information about, you know, how they work, what, what would you be looking for in a good school? Well, that's
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:46.660
a really interesting question. Well, I think, I think that. Different for every family, because every family has a different approach to discipline. And my view is that it's very important that your approach at home aligns with the schools. So if you're a really liberal, free and easy parent that just believes in, you know, giving your child some rope, letting them learn from their own mistakes, you know, not really pulling them up, letting them set their own boundaries. You're not going to get on well at a school where they're, you know, they make you, like, pull your socks up, wear your tie straight, and, you know, give out detentions, like, like, candy. You know, I think it's just it. I don't think there's a one size fits all, but I would really be looking to make sure it, it's aligned with how you are as a family.
00:30:46.660 --> 00:31:43.839
Because, you know, schools can inflict quite inconvenient things on families. You know, Saturday detentions, for example. You know, if you're if you're not a parent, that would ground your child on a Saturday night, if there was aggression at home, not going to be very happy. Are you about having to take them into school on a Saturday morning when they don't really need to be there? So I think one of the really good ways of understanding whether your personal and your family ethos is a good fit with a school is on an open day, really listen to what the head teacher is saying, and really try to get a very strong feel for their ethos. You know, they will become your child's North Star, particularly in secondary schools. They give very grand and meaningful assemblies on all manner of topics, from social inequality to kindness to neurodiversity to inclusivity.
00:31:38.539 --> 00:32:14.039
They they talk about the big topics and behavior, of course, and discipline will be one of those. So you need to be listening very carefully to the subtext of what this headmaster or headmistress is is saying, if they're if they have a very strict approach to discipline, it should come out at that point. Or if they're all about academics and not so focused on the softer skills, and that's what's important to you, you should be hearing that message loud and clear, and that will help you decide whether you're on the same page
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:36.440
or not. Yeah, I love that. And we, what we do is we bring our kids up is they call it primary socialization, and you end up sending them to school. The school is just an extension of your home socializing. Yeah? Well, preferably, you know, if it really is a mismatch with the way that you view the world, it can be so difficult for your child as well, because it's really confusing and you're going to end up with conflict.
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:49.480
So I love what you're saying about that. I think it's really important. So when you when you've got to the point where you think, Okay, this is, this is just not going to be the right school. Are there ways in which you should tell the school? Are there ways in which you should find the new school?
00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:50.440
Are there any bits of advice you can give to us about
00:32:50.439 --> 00:34:08.699
that? Yeah, how you know? I mean, I think we've already said that. I think you know, when the light really goes out, and you know, particularly at that sort of age, you'd expect a 16 year old to be socializing with school friends at the weekends and things like that. And if that's not happening, then think you need to really have a take a long, hard look at whether or not it's not just their academic progress is it's their social progress, and particularly for our children that live through the pandemic, you know, we've had to intervene in that, haven't we, because there was two years where, you know, they weren't following the natural progression that children were before. So I think how you know is, I think as a parent, is your gut, and I think when that light does go out and they're not that bothered by their school or they're not socializing with school friends, it's definitely if you have the option, it's time to look for a move. And in the state sector, around the country, there are some amazing Sixth Form colleges. Yeah, if school isn't right for your child, if they're not bothered about, you know, the rules and the prefects and playing sport all the time and being in clubs and societies, because that's not for everyone you know. It's it's sort of held up as the ultimate school experience. But it's not. It's not right for every child. You know, they might be far better off in a college where they can come and go as they please. They can maybe drive themselves there if they've passed their test. They don't have to wear a uniform.
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:22.278
They don't have to worry about whether they're a prefect or whether in the netball team or not. Those kinds of environments can be, can be really strong. So I think it's, you know, it's just good if you've got options.
00:34:18.059 --> 00:36:56.079
And that that love of learning does appear to be lost. To try and figure out what makes your child want to get out of bed in the morning and look at what the options are. And you know, at that age, I'd also let them lead it to a certain extent. To be honest, I think if they've got, if they've got, it's funny as next, as a parent, you spend a parent, you spend a lot of time saying, just because your friends doing this doesn't mean that you, you know, doesn't mean that you're I don't care what their mum said. But actually, if they've got friends in another school that are having a great experience there, you know, and they think they might want to go there, I think that's really valid. It's a really valid point. Well, yes, that, yeah, that's. Age is so important, isn't it? So I think I would let the child, if they want, to slightly, lead the process, but certainly be a major part of the decision making factor. And I think you're just looking at, you're looking at a lot of different factors here, aren't you know, we've all got our own academic aspirations for our child, we need to be sure that the school in question can meet that ultimately, we want to be looking at, if universities on the horizon, you know, where they're sending their pupils to, is it a broad range of destinations? Are they going off to study a diverse selection of subjects? That's a really good sign. And you've got some going off to art school, so I'm going to music, Conservatoire, something to read, medicine, engineering, STEM subjects, some going to drama college, or doing humanities or English literature or something like that's a really good sign that school is helping the children get to their the best destination for them. So I'd be looking at that, and then I'd be really thinking about my my child's individual interests and aptitudes. And I think it's just very important as a parent, we talk about this a lot in the office, very, very important to cast aside all of your own school experiences and remember dads, especially, this is not about you. You know, the rugby pitch or the cricket square might be the best in England, but your son might not be into those things like you were. So let's, you know, let's remember it's about them and we all it's very, very hard to put aside your own experiences of school, because they're so formative, aren't they, and they really do shape us. We've all got such vivid memories. But as much as you can try and park that and really think about what it is that makes your your son or daughter tick, and that's what you have to try and find.
00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:13.980
And I think just rounding it up, our generation will have had experiences at school that are nothing like the experiences they're having in school, and the terrible things that happen to us, you know, the way that sometimes the teachers were behaving with us, we sort of we still have that in our system.
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:17.579
So if we our child's having a hard time, it can trigger that.
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And being able to sit back and say, Look, this isn't my education. It's not the same, and calm ourselves and stop getting upset on behalf of our kids, and trust the school like you say that they're you're in a team,
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:53.500
right? Yeah, department school works best for everybody when the parents and the school working in partnership together. And sometimes that does involve difficult conversations, sometimes it can get a little bit fiery, but it has to remain respectful on both sides, everyone has to remember that it's the child's progress and welfare that that is at the heart of every conversation you have.
00:37:54.099 --> 00:38:08.699
Because I am hearing just before we finish, I am hearing a lot of teachers saying they're leaving the profession, because all they get is criticism from parents at all times like coming at them, from all there are protocols that nobody's following them. They're just coming in and complaining.
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And that's not what we want.
00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:10.679
It's definitely
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:51.760
not what we want. There's a thing, and there's a massive teacher recruitment and retention crisis in this country, and none of us want schools to be depleted of the staff that you know, keep them going day in, day out. You know it's, it's, you just need to be respectful to the people who are there to that they're essentially there to serve our communities. And, yeah, it's important to be kind to them and remember that they are just doing a job. I think if you saw the parent timed school complaints survey, Rachel, but there were 5 million formal complaints made last year against teachers. Formal complaints. Yeah, what? Yeah.
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:52.599
That
00:38:53.019 --> 00:38:55.059
is very, very big number, yeah.
00:38:55.059 --> 00:39:02.159
And you have to remember that every form we're not talking about, you know, going in and saying, you know, why did you not give Johnny and apple at break time.
00:39:02.219 --> 00:39:59.199
These are formally written complaints that have been escalated within the school environment. So you have to remember as well, in this environment where schools are so depleted of resource, a formal complaint takes up so much time from the head teacher to the boards of governors to the staff members, obviously, who are involved, anyone else who might be you know, around them, their heads of department, etc. So you know, all of that resource is being taken away from teaching our children. So you know the parents, of course, it's fine to make a complaint if you have a genuine, serious concern. You know, we have to be holding everybody's feet to the flames to make sure they're delivering the service and the education that our children are entitled to. But I find it hard to believe that 5 million of those complaints were really well founded. Wow. So it's
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.139
actually you.
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.260
Yeah, that's it. That's quite a way
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.860
staggering, isn't it? Yes, yeah,
00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:21.679
okay, so I think we've covered it. I think there are some brilliant tips in there. Melanie Sanderson, managing editor of the good school guide, thank you so much for joining us. If people want to get more information from you, pick your brains, get more detail from your guide. How would they find you? So
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:41.500
we are www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk and that will take you through to all of our 1300 really detailed school reviews. You can connect with our consultants through there. And we've got a whole wealth. Got about 500 free information articles on there covering
00:40:41.500 --> 00:41:10.619
every topic you can imagine. Brilliant. I absolutely love it. Thank you so much. Now, if you found this useful, give it a five star rating. Send it to somebody you know who might be looking at schools at the moment and trying to think about how they deal with their kids and their schools. Don't forget to follow the podcast so that you don't miss any episodes. My email address is teenagers untangled@gmail.com and you can find me on my website, which is www.teenagersuntangled.com That's it for this week. Have a great week. Big hug from me.
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Bye, bye.
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