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Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now this week, I was hoping to have an interview with Matt Pinkett, who's the co author of boys don't try, and the sole author of boys do cry, but sadly, there were technical issues. So we're going to have to try again. And that left me with a gap and no Suzy. Now Tammy wrote in to say, I feel quite depressed that I have to wait a week before getting to hear a new episode. So Tammy, I don't want to leave you with that without something. ticky has also written in saying, I just found your fabulous podcast. But I wanted to comment on tidying rooms having been brought up in a very permissive, no enforce rule, but by example, house, I now have few domestic or organizational skills as a 45 year old. I think if I had some basics drilled into me when I was younger, for example, making my bed and picking up my clothes, domestic life would not be so chaotic now, because all of those things would just be automatic. Wow. I think you've made the most brilliant point, Tammy and I feel exactly the same way. I had a very chaotic upbringing. And I was never really told how to do any of this. And I found trying to tidy my room really confusing, because I just didn't know where to start. We're all walking the line between teaching important skills and try not to destroy our relationship on petty issues that crush the natural instincts of our teens. Now, I didn't want to revisit chores, but I did think this would be a good time to look again at pocket money and allowances. Now back in episode four, I explained my allowance system in response to a question by a listener today, you can really listen to what I said. And it's now it's more than two years on, I thought, why don't I have one of my daughter's in to talk about how it's worked, what I might do differently, because there are things I do differently. Now, if you didn't want to review the original clip, because you listened to it recently or to for whatever reason, I've got a chapter marker in so you can just jump to my current thoughts. Here goes. So now on to Mark's question, what do I do about pocket money for my teenager? He's asking for an allowance, but I already seem to be spending a fortune on him.
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While he doesn't really appear to understand the value of things. Suze, where are you with the whole allowances? Pocket money? is
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tricky, isn't it?
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And when they get older, they have more. They both have more needs financially, but they also have more ability to earn money.
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Do Yes. Very good point, though. I mean, I'm my friend's daughter and son both have weekend jobs.
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Yeah. Brilliant.
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And, you know, then do you? Do you also pay for them to do things in the house? That's a whole area itself, isn't it? You know, there's the whole Well, actually, they should be doing things because they are members of family. Why? You know, do I need to pay them to do that. But then if I pay them that's giving them an idea of, you know,
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well, the problem with that is that I have tried a little bit of that in the past, like, you know, you have to empty the dishwasher.
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The problem is that then they assume that that's their only job. Yes. That is not what it takes to run a house and so in a way very specific thing.
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Their responsibility, absolutely, totally. And then I get caught up in the hole. Well, actually, I really want to do those things for you. Because it's kind of part of being a nurturing parent, I you know, I want to be able to make you know, bring you up a snack even though I know you can you're perfectly capable of doing it yourself, or, you know, put your clothes away even though if I leave them on the floor, you know, you can do that yourself. Whether you choose to or not is a whole different matter. But part of you know, part of it of being a nurturing mother, I like doing that, but not every time so then you kind of flitting in and out a little bit.
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I think there's a massive range of options depending on your circumstances.
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In Mark's scenario, we don't have the age of the teenager, but I suspect the answer needs to be very different for an 11 year old compared with, say an 18 year old. Firstly, for a lot of parents, there won't be any spare money for allowances. And many say that they expect their teenager to do jobs around the house and find work to pay for their own treats. Regardless of your financial situation. I believe it's very important that teenagers begin to understand the realities of life, how hard it can be to make money, and then how important it is to spend that money wisely. Tracy told us that she's just set up an allowance for her son. She's given him 15 pounds a week which might sound like a lot but it's designed to mop up any of his extra spending and he is expected to save so that he has spending money in the holidays.
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Natalie changed her system giving all of her boys and allowance instead of pocket money. She says the nagging stuff hoped it's made a massive difference to their attitudes, they now hesitate before buying things, and are far more inclined to save up so that they can get things they really want.
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So in terms of what I would say to Mark, he says, he's already spending a fortune on his son, well, I had this scenario, I then thought, well, if I'm spending that money already, why don't I just taught it up, and then give it to them and say, that's your responsibility. Now, you manage that, because it makes them think about what they're spending, and whether the things that they normally would beg for are things they want to spend their own money on, or whether they would be better off spending that money somewhere else, they got an allowance once they went to senior school. And it involved me sitting them down. And I'm quite formal about this. And I said to them, right, I'm now going to give you an allowance, here's what it includes. And I went through all the things this includes. And I said, I don't expect you to ask me for any of these things. Now, that's your responsibility. Don't come to me asking for this stuff. And I, it's a headache for me, I'm not giving you this money. So you can spend it, I'm giving you this money. So you can think about it. These are like your training wheels. And what I used was a bank called revolute, which is a challenger bank, there are other banks, some people use GoDaddy, I didn't because they charge and I don't see why I should be spending money on a facility like this.
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Frankly, I didn't want this to turn into an advert for revolute. But what I find useful is that I can see their accounts on my app, I can put money in, and I can choose for it to go in regularly. So I don't have to think about it. I can look and see what they're spending money on. I can also withdraw money from their account, I can also set up targets, I want to encourage them to do something, I can set that up, they can ticket when they think they've done it, and then I can give them the money if I think they I agree. So it's actually very, very useful. Again, set of training wheels. The problem with it is for example, one of my daughters was talking about sheen. And I said Donnie don't shop with sheen, don't it's so bad for our environment, and the poor people have to make the garments. And you know, I started explaining how I felt that this was not a suitable place to be spending your money.
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And she nodded. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. And then upstairs, and the next thing, I got a ping on my phone, and it was shocked.
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And I just thought, you know, the thing is, that I just let it go. Because I thought it's her money. Yeah. And all I can do is explain to her my values. And if she disagrees, we'll you know, I'm not going to sit here and go, Well, I told you not to. So you have to let it go. It's very valuable sometimes to be able to withdraw money. For example, you remember those days when you had to pay some money. And you know, the window cleaner has been in you need some cash, and you don't have the cash. And so you could just go into your child's bedroom and going
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Yes, done that.
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Definitely done that.
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So the great thing is with an app, you can just withdraw the money using the app. How cool is that? So I did that the other day.
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Unfortunately, I have a child who actually monitors her app.
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And I got an instant message saying, Mommy, have you just taken money out of my account?
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What for? I felt like a naughty child. So we've taught her well, she's monitoring. I've taught her well, it's a little bit scary, but it's enough for them to do things is not enough for them to not do things. So they do need to supplement it from time. If they want more, I can say well, you can wash the car, you can, you know, and included in that if they're sitting there and I've I cooked. We've had our supper and I say right, you clear up anything. I say you remember, you have all these allowances, and I'm not expecting things from you. But I do expect you to contribute to the house. And then no arguments. And then the other thing I did when my one of my older children had had this for a year was I said to her so what about, you know, review and she said, What do you mean? And I said, What, presumably you want more? And she said oh, I didn't want I didn't know that was an option? And I said Uh huh. So if you go to work, and you've been given a salary each year, you should be trying to get more and the reason for that is number one, you're more experienced and more useful. And number two, there's something called inflation. I love this. So I explained what index linking is.
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And that if you get given 10 pounds this year, and inflation goes up by three pounds, so 3% Then your 10 pounds has now declined in value. So unless you start making sure you are keeping up you're now reducing your salary. For me this is an important training ground. This is a way to To develop responsible adults who think about the various issues involved in in money,
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I need to write this down and do this. When my daughter,
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she said, Okay, so can I have some more money?
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And I said, No, you have to ask for it formally. And she went, what? And I said, Yeah, so we'll have a review. I've given you this money to, for you to learn how to manage it. So let's have a conversation about how well you've managed it. Those are the parameters I've set. And you can ask for more. She said, Well, can we do it on WhatsApp? I said, No, you can't. And she hated it. Absolutely. It was she was tearful. And I said, I'm going to force you to do this.
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Because I don't want the first time you do this to be in a work environment where you're being evaluated, I'd like you to gain a sense of your own worth, in an environment where I care about you. Because at work, they may not, they may be trying to push back as much as possible. So so we went through this negotiation, and she told me what she thought she had achieved. And then I said, right now I'm going to tell you, and I praised her for all the amazing things she'd done. And she was shocked. And I said, No, no, I mean, I think this is incredible what you've managed to achieve with your money. And he, you know, I can't actually fault it.
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It's been incredible, you know, and that may not be the same with the other one. But, you know, I said, so I don't have really any particular goals, I think you've done really well.
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So then she was thinking, what do I get for that? And I said, I don't know, what do you want?
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And she hadn't prepared. So I said, Well stop this now. Go away and prepare. So she came back and tried negotiating and asking for more money. And I said, I prepared to give you this much more, but it's not very much. And she went, Okay, okay. And I said, Oh, my God.
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They said, The point about negotiation is don't make it just about one thing. Don't make it just about the money. Because if your employer can't give you any more money, then you That's it. Yeah, you're stuck, come to the table with other things to offer. And workplaces may have medical healthcare, they may have longer holidays, I don't know, you know, you need to think about all the possible scenarios that are available in a workplace, and also in the home. So what could I give you that would be valuable to you, but doesn't require me to give you more money? Brilliant,
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what did she say?
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lifts to places she wanted me to pay for hairdresser appointment, which anyway, does involve more money, but it was sort of a different thing and some products that she values, but you know, so we I can't remember there were other things. And yeah, more freedom, a bit more freedom. Freedom, like buy your freedom. So you know, this is this is something to teach our children that when you negotiate, it's not people always focus on these these narrow things like your grades or your just money. But let's try and get our children, children to think creatively about what is out there. And what we really want as human beings.
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I think that's brilliant. So hugs, can I rethink my financial things? You
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can you can ask the children to cook? Yes, well, you can ask them, you know, it's cooking meal once, you can ask that they can ask you to cook meals that they part of the negotiate. So as adults, we have to think creatively about what we can put in that mix. About the things you'd like our children to do get better at, yeah, focus on and
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teach them. So you know, what, what does it take to earn 10 pounds? It's not just 10 pounds. 10 pounds is a lot of work. You know, that's really, really important. Yes,
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yes, absolutely. And then they get really bored. And you say, Well, that's what you do. If you don't have means to Yeah, you know, get a better job to maybe
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you didn't really need that burger. You know, maybe maybe maybe that 10 pounds wasn't well spent. You got to take
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the sandwich from home. Yeah. So that's the original conversation about. So that's the original can do what I believe I can do believe. So that's the original conversation about giving our child and allowance or giving my children and allowance. And I'm now joined in the studio, which is a squatty room that looks like John was out by my darling daughter. Thanks so much for being with us. Right. Now, I haven't actually discussed any of this before with you about how you feel about the allowance. So this is gonna be a learning experience for me too.
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Right. First of all, what do you think about the allowance system? Just generally, let's let you talk. Personally,
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I think it's really good because it allows me and my sister to have like a degree of independence. stuff that we wouldn't have otherwise having to come back to you and, like, constantly ask you for money and justify that. It allows us to learn how to control our own finances and and decide what we want to buy for ourselves rather than like having to ask for it.
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So do
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you do when I set it up? I actually said to you, look, I'm not giving you money. So you can spend money.
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I'm giving you money. Yeah. So you learn how to look after your money. Yeah. So do you think it's worked?
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I mean, yes, yes, there was definitely a learning. So when I first when I first got it, I remember just going a bit crazy. And I basically spent the second one, I got it every week.
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And then it wasn't very fun when I didn't have any money. And then what
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would I do if you didn't have any money?
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Or you just say, Well, you have to wait for next week.
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You wouldn't give me to kind of fill in the gaps. So then I sort of took a step back, and I went, well, this isn't working out.
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And especially because I wasn't spending it on anything that was actually important to me, or that I like I was resisting. I remember, I remember just ordering wet arts hot chocolate online. For several weeks, we just go boxes and boxes of hot chocolate.
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Just because I liked because I was like, oh, it's nice. Yeah, I was like, wow, I can just spend money, you know. And then I decided that that wasn't really the best idea. Because I wasn't really benefiting from it, in many ways. And then when I actually wanted to buy things, I didn't have any money. So then I started budgeting. And yeah, and revolute. Like the system that you set up is really good for that. Because you can set little goals and things like that. And
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you can do it yourself country. Yes. It's not just because I can do that for you. But I really done that.
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You know, I remember trying to do it a couple of times a year, and it just didn't work out. But But yeah, but it's nice having having that option.
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So I started doing that. Yeah.
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And then I've
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noticed your sister has also set up goals and money going out into those little discrete accounts, which sometimes she she gets into
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Yeah, it's quite easy to
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do that. But you've done something different because you start saying so I,
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I set up my own account. A Santander account.
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Because why? Because revolute you don't have interest. So we're not getting like while it's good for like kids account and other accounts linked. So it's really easy for you to put money into our accounts and vice versa. And you can see our transactions. We don't gain interest at all. So if I'm trying to save money than the money that I've got just sitting in my revolute it's actually doing anyways. Yeah, it's like worse off for me saving it in revolute. Yes, I might as well be spending it. Because then I interest. Yeah. And
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I think you would have because that's really smart. I mean, that's really sophisticated thinking for someone your age, do you think?
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Do you think that you would have come to that conclusion in if I hadn't set up this allowance?
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I'm not trying to get ask you leading questions. I'm just genuinely interested. What come to the conclusion that you needed to actually find an account that paid you money for storing your money?
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No, because I don't think I would have like, I wouldn't be saving in the same respect anyway. Because I wouldn't be asking you for money to save. You will be giving you won't give me an allowance. I wouldn't come to you being like, Oh, can I have 100 pounds to save? You just go what? So I'd be asking you for specific things where you just be buying clothes or things like that, and I wouldn't be saving money. So So yeah, so without the allowance, I wouldn't be doing that.
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Now coming back to the clothes in you've just mentioned how has that impacted on your clothes choices your style?
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Massively. Just because, like up until my allowance it was. I mean, it was you buying me clothes, and I would be choosing clothes that I wanted. And then I'd ask you, like, you pay for them. But but at the same time, you'd also buy clothes that you thought I would want. And then you didn't necessarily sometimes they were like they were awkward moments.
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But you buy me something I'd be like, Oh, that's really lovely.
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I think you'd think you have me, but it wouldn't necessarily be something that I wanted. Yes.
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And then it would just be a waste of money. Yeah. But then without also influenced my style because I'd feel obligated to wear it and then and then it wouldn't necessarily I feel like it wouldn't reflect what I wanted to wear. So So yeah, I mean, it's given me a lot more independence and my choices and things that I wear and and I feel like it it has meant that my wardrobe has become a lot more personal and also not full of things that I don't wear. So the clothes that I do buy you Most of them, I will end up wearing. And then when I don't wear them, I go okay, well, that was a stupid purchase.
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So you learn from Yeah, exaggeration.
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So if I'm not wearing it, then then I go okay, well, next time I'm going to give more thought to this,
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before I spend without naming any specific names, your friends, perhaps have different systems, how does it impact on them and their clothes choices just for comprising,
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they go through similar things to what I was just describing. So a lot of them, a lot of them can sympathize, like, a lot of them will be bought clothes by their parents that they they weren't wearing, or they find it very frustrating when they ask for money. And then the parents will refuse and they go, Well, this is not this is not working for me, because I really want to buy this and that parents will go wow, I don't want you wearing that. Or, you know, like they don't feel the same independence or freedom.
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Right.
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And of course, as a parent, I have to be prepared to allow you to wear Yeah, exactly. Like you just walked in shorts, and I don't think you'd like Jaws, but they aren't shorts. But that's your style. Yeah, of course, I have to accept that. When it comes to I think one of the things that I've done wrong is I haven't like I didn't want to tie it to you doing specific things.
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Because I think if you pay people and say you, you know you get a pound for doing this, and you get a pound. But I didn't want that to be the way it works. Because I wanted a general understanding that you will have to contribute to the house, which I have to say everybody's doing. Yes. There's a sense of teamwork in the house. Yeah. And I think the team has been learned over a while. It takes time, it takes time. And I've had to be patient over that. And you know, you're particularly interested in cooking. So you're you're coming in, you'll just cook stuff, and it's very helpful in the house.
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The thing I think I've failed on that's been mentioned by a listener Tiki, is that having an exponent, I don't think I've put in place habits that will help you for the rest of your life.
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And I think I should have made those part of this system. Say isn't like what he's the sorts of things? Well, for example, like, every morning, you should put your doovy. Back, allow it to air so and that deals with bedbugs and specific reasons why not bedbugs that deals with not just like get killed from sunlight. Yeah, you know that, then you know why you shouldn't
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need to do that. Yeah.
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And
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then And then what's happened is those needs to be constantly reinforced. So I should have made it a sort of, okay, these are the sorts of things you should be doing every day. And I haven't enforced that. And I think that's not helpful, because I think you need habits so that when you leave home, it's just automatic.
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You don't have to think about it all the time. What do you think?
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Um,
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I think that's true, I think, you know, but but I think also at the same time, like these are things that we can implement really easily. Yes, it doesn't. Just because we haven't done it our entire life doesn't mean that we can't start doing it pretty easily. Like, it will take a while for it to become a reflex. But we can, yes, really quickly.
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But I feel like it's now like I've actually had this conversation with your sister where I said, I think you're both at an age now where you need to be doing not things for me, but you there are certain skills you need to actually get under your belt before you leave home so that they're really easy when you're older. Because I was thinking about this and thinking about when I had to start running my own flat. And it's chaos, disaster if you don't actually have specific skills that are really obvious. So for example, wiping down the basin, after you've used it, you know, using the toilet, all those little things where I need to make sure that you have those as habits.
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And they're not something though, I have to say oh, by the way, have you done this? Does that make sense? Yeah. So that's one thing I would change about it. And I would actually codified like I'd have a list and it wouldn't be Oh, you haven't done this. So therefore you don't get your oh, maybe, you know, I don't I do I do it in one way, which is that there are certain things that I tried to target. For example, I started missing mugs and I discovered mugs in people's Yeah. And I have said I'm going to charge you one pound per mug I found in your room, which I think is one way of dealing with it. Yeah. What do you think of that? That's,
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that's reasonable.
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I think it's reasonable. And also things like when people forget things, which was sister has done, you've done. You know, there are certain moments where I say, Well, if it's me having to drive all the way to get to charge you funny. I think it's what do you think? Do you think that's a terrible? No, I
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think that's really fair. I think it's really fair.
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I think my sister thought that was fair as well. She didn't think I was unreasonable.
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She's really reasonable. And also, I've often like when I've forgotten things I've also just offered to pay as well. And
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also, I think like another thing I'm interested in is what do you think about you having To sit down in a formal way and have a discussion about it, oh,
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well as in negotiate my allowance. Um, I think the first time I found it really stressful.
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I'm Why did you find it so stressful?
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I think I think it was frustrating for me. Because I'd never really had someone was like query that, like, question my desires or like question of the validity of the things I wanted, because in my mind, it was all really reasonable. And then every single time that I said something like, You made me justify it, and I'm putting you on the spot, I found that really frustrating. But I think it was really useful, because it's made me actually think about why I want things. Interesting. And yeah, and it's made me much better at justifying my stance.
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And you said something yesterday, when we were doing some driving practice, which absolutely just hit home for me, and it was that we had been doing some pretty tricky stuff going across roundabouts, busy roundabouts up hills, where you just couldn't stall, things like that. And, and I and by the time you got to the location, you were kind of I think you're full, you could not cope with anymore. And I said, I'm really sorry, this is actually very stressful. And what do you remember what you said? Yeah,
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I basically said that, that I think it's really important going through stressful things that I'm grateful that that you actually took me down those routes, because when you do get past the stress, or when once you've done the stressful thing, it kind of reinforces your idea that you can actually do them. Yes, yes.
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And I think this is something we need to know, as you're more confident in those areas.
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Yes. And I think that's been the case through your life, that we parents, it feels really uncomfortable to put our kids in stressful situations. But actually, when you come away from them, you go wow, look at me, I can do that. Exactly.
00:27:04.890 --> 00:27:44.160
Yeah, that's competence. What about presence? Has this changed your weight? Because I remember when you were little, it was a nonstop round of Oh, mommy, it's such and such as birthday I need to give them Yeah, and I had a certain amount I'd allocate to each child unless they were a very special friend. And, and it gets quite expensive. So I said, Wait, so I taught it up. You know, I thought you can't have more than I didn't know what it was for friend best friends. So I thought, Okay, I'm going to toss up the amount I would give for those four best friends and put that in that allowance. So the allowance was already what I was supposed to have been spending. Yeah. And has it impacted on your present giving?
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:45.150
I
00:27:45.150 --> 00:28:01.410
think it has. I mean, it definitely has how, because I'm, I remember there was one period where I basically tried to get them the cheapest. Um, yeah, like, at the very beginning, I was like, This is my money.
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:05.579
I don't like you that much.
00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:17.369
But I think, yeah, I think having that freedom has meant that, that also present giving has become a lot more meaningful. Because it's my money that I'm spending. Yes.
00:28:17.549 --> 00:28:42.990
So. So when I give a present, it's like, this is actually, this is something that's coming from me personally, not like my parents decided to spend that money on you. Right? Like, this is something important to me. So yeah, so now present giving, I do actually think like, it's not, it's not something that I just go, oh, yeah, you're entitled to a present? Because might seem really, really bad.
00:28:39.029 --> 00:28:46.289
But but when I spend money on someone, it's actually with, like, there's meaning behind
00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:52.019
that. And how has that impacted the way you feel about the presence that you get? Oh,
00:28:52.259 --> 00:29:34.589
it's, I mean, like, I am not extremely grateful for everything. That I mean, I've always been quite creative. I've always been, I've always been grateful. But But I always think, to be fair, to be honest, I do. Sometimes I'll receive a present. And I'll be like, Oh, this actually doesn't mean anything. Because what you've done is you've just been given money from your mother, and then you've gone to like Oliver bonus or whatever. You know, that's the default is the same as the other day as the default. But I mean, I'm still grateful for those gifts, obviously, because someone's going out of their way to buy me something. But it has changed my perspective on the presence I receive as well. How interesting. So yeah.
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:50.460
And if there was anything that you would change about the system, if you were saying there are other parents listening, who might want to implement this or might be questioning it, is there anything that you would change about it or that you'd add to it?
00:29:52.980 --> 00:30:22.049
I don't think so. I think it's really good because each family can like tailor it to to things they like to their lifestyle. Oh. So like, recently I negotiated with you paying for train tickets, because those have been something that like, yeah, that I've been doing a lot more regularly. I've been taking train journeys. And those rack up as well. So I've like I've been spending basically my entire allowance on train tickets to go and visit people.
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:23.549
Yeah, exactly. So it's great, because you can just, you know,
00:30:23.789 --> 00:30:57.059
it can flex, flexible. And it's interesting with that, just so other parents understand what we're talking about. You said, you're going and visiting friends and the weekends and things and I and my answer was, okay, I'll pay so that you can spend X amount of time with your friends, but they have to come here, because I want to I don't want to enable you to not be with me. Yeah. And if you want to do that, you need to go make your own money to do that. Yeah. So that yes, I hope you didn't feel I was manipulated,
00:30:57.089 --> 00:30:59.519
negotiating. You know, I thought that was fair.
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:34.980
And I think now that you're getting older, I would say, I will index linked things, we can discuss other things that you need. But I will also be expecting you to top up with jobs after work, because you're old enough now and it benefits you. And incidentally, you went to your first work experience the other day, which was really revelatory wasn't Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't it was just a friend's office and just being in an office. Yeah. Couldn't you'd had an idea of what an office is?
00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:42.059
To say, was it No, no, it was it was it was a lot nicer than I was expecting. Right. And
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:58.829
also, and also, you talked about skills that you've been learning from listening to an audio book on your super communicator, which then you practice and you saw other people, and teamwork when people are grownups. It's very different to the sort of teamwork you experience at school.
00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.140
Yeah. I mean, that was the main thing that I took away.
00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:12.690
I didn't, I didn't really learn anything about the actual workers. I did a little bit but it was mainly mainly watching people work together in a team.
00:32:08.250 --> 00:32:26.369
Because yeah, like group work in school is so different, so different, and actually managing, managing different voices in the room and making sure everyone's listened to each other. And it was just amazing, like observing that, yeah.
00:32:22.650 --> 00:32:28.529
Because I've never really witnessed lucky in that way.
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:37.500
So. So I think that's one of the key things that we can do as parents is to help our kids see over the hill, because you can't possibly conceive of what those things you know, working now,
00:32:38.190 --> 00:32:57.150
trading floor. offices are like trading floor. I was really expecting like a really stressful high intensity ugly environment where people had a laptop and a plant. And that was, that was their death.
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.150
That's so but it was, there are
00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:14.730
places. But yes, that's the thing unless you've actually started to see the reality. And that's why I think anybody that we know who can offer a day of just going in and seeing what that environment is like, whatever the environment is incredibly eye opening, isn't it? Yeah. Okay.
00:33:14.730 --> 00:33:55.049
Well, look, thank you so much for joining me. That's it. For today's episode coming up, we'll be talking about teen perfectionism, which is a topic raised by Mhh, something or other somebody who left a lovely, lovely review, also coping with being in the sandwich generation. The ones who have were the ones who have older people to look after teen kids working, going through the menopause, everything at the same time. If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with at least one person. I'm really noticing clusters of people popping up in various locations. So a massive thank you for doing this. Building a community makes life so much easier when you're a parent. You can search through old episodes on the website using key words.
00:33:51.720 --> 00:34:03.210
You can also read my blog posts reviews and sign up for my newsletter in which I give extra tips on books, news items and podcasts that I found really interesting and worth sharing.
00:34:01.230 --> 00:34:47.219
That's www.teenagersuntangled.com you can find me on all social media, although I'm better at some of them than others. That's it for now. Thanks for joining us bye bye okay, I'm actually quite annoying. I realized now why you don't come in here this is Tom Dowling anytime you want to come to a match. Okay, stop.
