Aug. 19, 2025
Lessons in parenting from adult kids who go no contact: 156
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What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover? Do you ever worry about losing touch with your kids as they grow up? In this episode of Teenagers Untangled I'm joined by Catherine Hickem, a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today to explore the growing issue of family estrangement. Catherine is leading a conversation around one of the most overlooked family dynamics: the relationship between parent...
What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover?
Do you ever worry about losing touch with your kids as they grow up?
In this episode of Teenagers Untangled I'm joined by Catherine Hickem, a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today to explore the growing issue of family estrangement.
Catherine is leading a conversation around one of the most overlooked family dynamics: the relationship between parents and their adult children. Despite how common this phase of life is, few resources exist to help parents navigate the transition from authority figure to trusted ally.
*Research shows that about one in four American adults—27%—report estrangement from a family member. Notably, 26% of adult children have experienced estrangement from a father, compared to only 6% from a mother—and many of these rifts eventually heal.
We discuss why adult children might cut ties with parents, and what we can do now—while our kids are tweens or teens—to build a strong, lasting relationship.
We cover:
- The most common reasons adult children become estranged from their parents
- The key mistakes parents make (and how to avoid them)
- How to adapt your parenting style as your children grow into adulthood
- The impact of parental expectations, grief, and cultural pressures on family bonds
- Practical strategies for fostering trust, open communication, and unconditional love
- Real-life stories of reconciliation and hope
Catherine Hickem brings decades of experience working with thousands of families, offering actionable advice and heartfelt encouragement.
CATHERINE HICKEM:
https://www.parentingadultchildrentoday.com/
https://www.instagram.com/parentingadultchildrentoday/
Research sources:
A longitudinal U.S. study (Reczek et al.), Cornell's Fault Lines project, and the YouGov poll conducted in 2022.
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I don't have medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
And my website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact me:
www.teenagersuntangled.com
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You can reach Susie at www.amindful-life.co.uk
00:00 - Why Do Adult Children Cut Ties?** Rachel Richards introduces the topic of family estrangement and why it’s a growing concern for parents.
02:06 - Meet the Expert: Catherine Hickem’s Background** Introduction to Catherine Hickem, licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today.
03:28 - Building Trust During the Teen Years** How adolescent years lay the foundation for future parent-adult child relationships.
04:06 - Why Parents Miss Warning Signs of Estrangement** Common communication breakdowns and why parents often don’t realize there’s a problem.
06:44 - Why Fathers Are More Often Estranged** Exploring the unique risks fathers face and how involvement impacts long-term bonds.
08:51 - The Power of Apology and Vulnerability** How honest conversations and apologies can repair and strengthen relationships.
11:19 - Top Mistakes Parents Make With Adult Children** Key errors like giving unsolicited advice, projecting expectations, and undermining confidence.
16:17 - Letting Go of Expectations and Embracing Your Child’s Path** The importance of grieving unmet dreams and supporting your child’s individuality.
20:52 - Parental Self-Worth and Children’s Choices** Why parents must separate their own value from their children’s successes or failures.
24:21 - Cultural Pressures and Family Estrangement** How community and cultural expectations can complicate parent-child relationships.
27:00 - The Lifelong Need for Parental Love and Approval** Why adult children still crave unconditional love and support from their parents.
30:28 - When to Offer Advice and How to Respect Boundaries** Learning to wait for your child’s invitation before giving guidance.
32:51 - Trusting Your Adult Child’s Decisions** How to support your child’s independence while managing your own anxieties.
35:31 - Emotional Habits to Prevent Future Estrangement** Practical tips for parents of tweens and teens to build resilience and trust.
36:50 - Signs of Hope: Repairing Estranged Relationships** Stories and strategies for reconnecting with estranged adult children.
39:31 - Personal Story: Redemption and Reconciliation** Catherine shares her own journey of healing and restoring her relationship with her father.
41:40 - Where to Find More Support and Resources** How to connect with Catherine Hickem and access further parenting advice.
WEBVTT
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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers.
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Untangled the audio hug for parents going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now recently, I've been thinking a lot about the sort of relationship I want to have with my kids when they're older, and it's led me to wonder why adult kids cut ties with their parents, and what we could be doing now to foster a relationship that flourishes rather than flounders. My guest today spends her life trying to support parents in developing a healthy relationship with their adult kids so they never have to go through the terrible pain of estrangement. Now, another reason why I thought we talked about this is that, according to researchers, it's a growing problem. A survey carried out in 2020 by Professor of Human Development at Cornell University, Dr pilmar, found more than one in four Americans reported being estranged from another relative, and it seems these figures are echoed in Britain, Australia and Canada, where we're witnessing what you could call a silent epidemic of family breakups and the toxic family hashtag on Tiktok I checked just before I came on now has over 2 billion views.
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Now we've talked already about helping our kids develop healthy long term sibling relationships.
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So today, let's focus on us parents. Catherine Hickem is a licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist who's worked with 1000s of parents and launched parenting adult children today to help us with that relationship with our adult children. Welcome to our Big hug community, Catherine. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
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It's a really important topic, isn't it, and it's so funny, because I was thinking a lot recently about this relationship I want with my kids. And you know, now they're sort of 17 and 18. You know, what do I need to be doing and thinking about to develop that as it goes along.
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But let's start with you. So how have you How have your own experiences shaped your approach to parenting adults?
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I think, you know, one of the advantages, I think, of being a therapist, it's not that you don't have problems, because we all have problems. I think you just figure out that you have them more quickly. Is, what is the advantage of being, you know, a therapist. But one of the things, as I noticed when I was raising my own children, I have a 40 year old and a 39 year old, so I've been at this for a while, and one of the observations that I had made was that we see that parents who don't understand that those adolescent years that you address so beautifully are the times that you're making deposits and creating trust in that relationship that you're going to need to, quote, go to the bank and take some withdrawals out when you go into adult relationships with them.
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And the problem with most of us as parents is that we don't make the changes to adapt to the changes that they are going through developmentally, and so we continue to parent as if they're 15 or 17, instead of understanding that they have become adults. And therefore when we fail to recognize and respect them in that role, regardless if they're making decisions that look mature, it's still going to create a wall instead of a bridge. And so therefore we have to address that.
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Yes, that's such an interesting point because I did an episode recently with Susie in which we talked about those different stages of parenting, and each one can almost be distinct, and there's a there's a stage when they get leave home where you've got to go into a new era. I read a thread the other day in which a mother said her adult child had severed contact. It's been a year. She said it's incredibly painful, and she still doesn't understand why, which is what hurts the most? And the first response said, I guarantee you've been told why on multiple occasions, but you've chosen not to listen, and that's the only option for them. What are your thoughts? Why? What do you think's
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going on? You know, I I hear that comment so often. I have no idea what happened. And I have the same opinion is that most of the time they've been trying to tell us, but we were not listening. We were not interpreting. We were not being curious. Because we've been so quick to quote, give opinions, we've been so quick to assume that we know, that we understand, and I think that has really hurt us. I think another thing that has really been a major negative factor have been the expectations that we have carried from the very beginning of time, that we have placed upon them, that they feel very heavily, that we don't even know that we've done, but that have really caused a our children to not share their lives with us because they're they don't want to disappoint us, they don't want to deal with the conflict, they don't want to deal with the rejection, they don't want to risk making us unhappy, and therefore, what they do is they just kind of cut us off. Them say what they don't know is really for the best for I don't need to tell them, because I don't want to hear what it is they're going to have to say.
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And I think, you know, I think one of the things that's so really important Rachel is that they have lived with us for 18 years. They know our values, they know our prejudices. They know the critical things that we may have said about other people or about their friends, they don't forget that. And so therefore, let's say they find themselves in the very same situation. They automatically think they know how we're going to respond, even though our response might be very different, because it's them instead of someone else. They don't know that. So we have indoctrinated them in several ways to how we're going to respond, and I think we have to really step back and get really curious as to how they perceive us. Now,
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fascinating. I think you're so right, because they're watching us all the time, and it it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable with this idea that, you know, if you say the wrong things or then your kids are just going to think, oh well, they'll think that about me and but it's the truth, and we have to be prepared to, like you said, be curious about how they're interpreting our situation. And one of the things I saw was that research says it's mostly adult children going no contact with parents and vice versa, and that fathers are significantly more likely to be the estranged party than mothers. Does that dynamic show up in your coaching and why? Why fathers more at high at a high risk?
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Well, I think because they often were the ones who were least involved, and therefore the bond is not as strong. And you know, I had a father who recently said to me, he said I was a lousy dad for the first 1718, years of their lives. He said I was and he said, but I woke up and realized I actually could bring something to their lives now, and so I'm going to really make the investment in them now, and he's worked very hard for the last 1520, years to correct the mistakes that he's made. But a lot of times they're they don't know what to do, so therefore they just have not created the trust that says, I'm not giving up. I care. I'm invested. And so therefore, if they didn't see it. You know, there was many, many years ago, there was a song called cats in the cradle, and it was a really popular song that talked about, you know, a father being too busy when they were little, and then when it got older, when the father had time, the adult child said, Sorry, Dad, I don't have time.
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And so therefore, sometimes we reap the the benefits and the consequences of what we've sowed or not sown. And so I'm not saying that that is the way it should be. I'm not saying we can't redeem it, because I'm a big believer in redemption and restoration, but we have to be really honest with where we are and you know, and sometimes I think it's really important to say to our adult children say, In what ways did I miss the boat? With you? Can we talk about those places that I I missed it because I don't, I don't want that to be an obstacle now, and if I owe you that apology, then I want to give that to you, because, you know, sometimes I was doing the best that I could, but that I could, but that didn't mean it was enough, and it didn't mean it was always right. So can we really have an honest conversation? Because I really want to know. I just want to be sure that we're clean and that there's nothing from the past that's standing in our present and that's going to interfere with our future. And I got to tell you, most adult children would die to hear yes, yeah.
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Parents say that to their children, to their Yeah. I
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couldn't agree more, and I think that it's a very painful thing for an a parent to have to ask, and I think often they don't ask it because they're scared of what they'll hear. But I also it's interesting, because I've got bonus daughters, and I have, you know, it's never an easy road.
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It's not something and their mother has since deceased. So you know, it's me and my relationship with them, which obviously changed after she died. And sure, one of them did, actually, you know, throw some accusations at me, and I had to sit, I had to sit and listen and just be there with her and and show her love rather than upset.
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But then at the end of it, I said to her, but I'm going through this for my first time.
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I you know, I'm not going to be perfect, and I'm really sorry if this was painful for you, and we have to find a way where we can work together, because I want to show you love, and I think it's sometimes we need them to guide us. And what it like I said, Well, what do you need? What what do you want? What do you need? What can I do? But it's not easy. I think it's a lot of emotional
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it's guts, right, right? You know, it really does. I mean, we have to really. Be willing to risk our own vulnerability. And I used, I said, I would always say the same thing. I've never been the mother of a 15 year old boy before, or I've never been, you know, the mom of a 29 year old i This is new for me, and sometimes I do it well, and sometimes I don't, and I just need to own that. And I'm really sorry that I didn't handle that?
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Well, can I have a do over and I've again, I find that they're very forgiving if they see that we're sincere and that we're really working on it, if it's just lip service, they know us again. They know when we're, you know, pull trying to pull the wool over on them and saying we're just pretending. They need to see that we're genuine and we're authentic, and that our vulnerability is saying to them, I care, and I want to make this work, and I'm going to do my part, and
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that's and that you're not just trying, yeah, you're not just trying to defend your position. Because I think that really winds people up, doesn't it?
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Well, I think it says I'm not hearing you, is what it says. Yeah, you know, yes, of course. And they don't.
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And which is another way of saying, I don't, your opinion doesn't matter.
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And what would you say if you had to kind of come up with the key mistakes that parents make? Are they sort of, 1231,
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we're too opinionated. We give opinions without being asked, and we shouldn't be giving opinions, because what it does, it undermines the confidence in the adult child. It basically says I don't trust that you know yourself well enough to have figured out answers to your own problems, so I'm going to resort to telling you what you should do. So it's insulting, it's disrespectful. It undermines their sense of who they are, and they begin to question themselves, instead of them being able to freely come to us and say, Hey, Mom, what do you think about they already know that you're going to tell them, and they really may not want to know, because one, we may not have all the pieces that they have about the problem they're experiencing. So we make assumptions that are just not at all kind or respectful. So I think we have to really stop talking. We need to really start listening, and we need to be a masterful questioner with you know that curiosity is an incredible friend, if it's done with the right heart, with integrity and with respect. They want to talk about it, but they need to know they're safe, and they need to know that they're not going to go through the third degree, you know, when they do share, you know. So our approach, our tone of voice, is extremely important. And I think there's another piece I sometimes that we forget. We started having dreams and expectations of them the minute we found out we were going to be a parent. Yes, and this and my son's adopted in a month before he was born, I received a letter from his mom, and in that three page letter, she laid out her dreams for him. She never held him, she never saw him, but she had dreams for him, and this is before she could embrace Him.
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And so therefore you think about those of us who you know, the minute we held them, we began to decide what, what possibilities could exist. And our intentions were good, our heart was good, but boy, we sure piled on some things for them about some unmet needs in our own lives that we didn't meet. Yes, right? And so we just loaded those little shoulders up with what you know, we didn't get, and then we also wanted to be sure that we gave them the things we didn't get, and we just kept adding to that list when that may not be what they needed at all. And so we have to really get honest. I think about what's mine? What's about my ego, what's about my unmet needs, what's about my unfulfilled dreams, and what's about who they are, and can I give them the space to fold, to unfold the way they were created to be versus the way I wanted them to be? I'm in full transparency, I'm going to tell you about my son. My son walks to the tune of a different drummer than what I thought would be my son's beat, and I've been by the time he was five, I figured out this was not going to be a normal journey. We were it was kindergarten, it was a Fall Festival, and they all had to pick a character from history. And so I said to my son, who was five, he just turned five, I said, What character would you like to be?
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And I'm thinking, you know, something very small, local, you know, American and the. Comes out and says, I want to be Leonardo da Vinci. Oh, you do, wow. I said, Well, tell me more.
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Well, Mom, he was a really great artist, and I think I want to learn about him. And I'm like, That's great. So I was so taken back that at five he even knew who Leonardo da Vinci was, right? And as I'm watching him make this presentation, because they all had to get up and talk about their character, I heard this voice in my head say, you need to release your expectation of this journey, because it's not going to look like what you think it is. It doesn't. He's been in Singapore for 15 years, he's, he's dated International Women. He's never really dated American women, and his life has always been worldview, not national. And so I had to completely, I mean, it was nice that I got a little bit of a hint, but at the end of the day, I've had to, like, stay very open, very curious. He was gonna keep me on my toes, showing me who he was versus who I thought he was going to be. And he
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sounds amazing.
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It's funny, early on, when I started this podcast, I've never forgotten one of the listeners emailing and saying, you know, sometimes we have to mourn the child we thought we were going to have, people we can truly love the child that we actually have. And I think that sums up what you're just saying. I think one of the other problems we have in the current generation is I was a worker, I was a career woman, and then I had children, and there wasn't really much transition between the two. And I sort of took all that ambition and strength and drive and thought just channeled it into children. And you kind of think, well, I, you know, I can do these really great things at work, so I need to do really great things with my children.
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And all that ambition becomes, you know, harnessed in the home.
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And that's a lot to put on a child.
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Gosh. I mean, it can just overwhelm them, just completely overwhelm them. But I want to go back to something you said that I think is really so incredibly true, but not discussed. And that is the importance that grief plays in the role of parenting adult children. We have to be able to release them and release them is a part of letting go and letting and acknowledging what I think is so important so we it doesn't get in the way of the good things that do come. You know, I had always had a dream that there would be a mother Sun Dance in the United States and weddings, there's always a Mother Son dance at the wedding.
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And so I'm at the wedding of my son's best friend, and it comes time for their mother son dance, and I start to cry, and as I'm sitting there grieving, I realize it's because I really, in my heart, know that will never be me with my son and I gave myself permission to let just let it go, feel it all and then moved on. Four years later, I get a call from my son. He lives in Singapore. He says, Mom, I'm getting married in 60 days. Would you come for the wedding? And I said, Absolutely, I will be. There I go. I am the only member of the family who was there, and I walk into this very extended family of this incredible Asian culture, with all their traditions, none of for which I'm familiar. But I have the the week of a lifetime to get to be saturated with their culture, their their relationships, to get to know the bride. It was the first time I'd met his his wife, and I can tell you, I was able to be fully present and accounted for because I had already grieved all the stuff I needed to grieve, and that was the gift that I could bring to the family and to myself. I didn't bring the baggage. I didn't bring the what if, or what should have been or what ought to have been.
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I brought a very pure heart to that moment that allowed me to be the best version of me, and that's all I can control. But grief was a really important part of allowing me to do that, because when we don't do it, our resentment comes out, bitterness comes out, control comes out.
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It's not pretty, and I don't want to inject that on him. He didn't deserve that. That was my issue. That wasn't his issue.
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And I think one of the things we need to do with parents is just get really honest and clean with what's our stuff, so we're just not constantly putting it on them. They got plenty of stuff to deal with. They don't need to have to deal with us. You know?
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Yeah,
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yeah. No, that's such a beautiful story, and I can see that that it's so important for us. I mean, I think your message there is that we have to try and dig down and uncover our own expectations and our own needs. I. And deal with them aside from that relationship, instead of expecting things from our kids?
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Yes, absolutely. And, you know, Rachel, I think another challenge is that parents think their value is determined on how their children show up. Like the success of their kids means I did a good job. Yes, the mistakes of their kids means I failed. And so they determine their value based upon the choices that their adult children make. And I'm going to push back on that that's not at all healthy or fair or accurate.
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If my children are successful, they have earned all of that success. That's not I don't take credit for that success. If they've made mistakes, those are their choices. I'm not going to take responsibility for their choices now. I don't abandon them. I love them. I am in it with them, and I that was always one of my non negotiables. You need to know I will, if you become Jack the Ripper, I will be the mom standing behind you in the courtroom. I will never, ever abandon you no matter what.
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Now, do I feel like that will ever happen? No, but I need you to understand. You imagine the worst moment of your life.
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You're going to see your mama standing right there next to you. Nothing will change the fact that I love you and that I'll be there with you, even if I don't understand, even if my heart is hurting, I'm not going to forsake you. And I think that's the kind of love that most adult children don't know, that they have, which is the reason why many of them live a secret life. When my daughter's friends said to me, did you know that Tiffany is the only friend that I have who is the same in front of her parents as she is behind their back? And I said, No, I didn't realize that. And he said, Oh yes. And I said, Well, what about you? Are you the same? He said, Oh no, Mrs.
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Sickcom, I'm not. And I said, Well, what's that about? He said, I know who my parents want me to be, and when I'm not who they want me to be. He said, My mom cries and my dad gets mad.
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So when I'm with them, I just become who they want me to be, and when I walk out the door, I go back to being who I really am. Wow. That is so painful, so incredibly. It took my breath away. This was an amazing young man, so talented, so kind, so full of life, and yet he couldn't be the truest version of himself with the very people who brought him into the world, because he knew that parts of him didn't line up with who they wanted him to be. And what I began to see over and over again is that what he told me was indeed true with the people that I began asking that question with. And there go, oh yeah, there's a there's a line, what I can show, what I can't show. And the most recent data that we've been gathering confirms that that you know they will they will talk about the grandchildren, they will talk about work, they will talk about things, or maybe friends. They will not talk about the real personal things. They won't talk about their mental health. They won't talk about their their their real personal relationships. They're keeping those from the very people that they should be able to safely process things with, but they're not. And that, to me, is the tragedy I think that's taking place, which I think is leading to estrangement.
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So that's fascinating. And on the note of estrangement, I actually interviewed a lovely woman called Amma, who is from Odessa so a South Asian community in the UK, and she told an incredible story about how she became estranged from her family because her community couldn't accept who she is. She's a lesbian who wanted didn't want to get married, didn't want to live in the Asian way that she'd been raised, and her parents were blamed for her stepping away from their community, but somehow her father managed to stay in contact with her, and their relationship developed, you know, you know, bit by bit, and then he drew her back into just this wonderful, open relationship they have. But I think sometimes, if you are surrounded by a community who also has a certain way of viewing things as a parent, it can be so hard trying to live this like I have to be loving to this child. But I also my community says this, and I think that's very, very
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difficult.
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It's extremely difficult, and the cultural norms very much impact mental health, and they they impact family dynamics, and we have not, again, talked about the the power of that. And yet, I think as a parent, we gotta get really clean and really clear what is my primary loyalty and my responsibility, and I.
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Think that when we made the choice to have children, that meant we made the choice to be a parent their entire lives, not just to the point of being 18, but until the last breath of our body. We owe them a commitment to see it through to the very end and being loyal to them, because we are the definition of what healthy and normal is good, bad or indifferent, we have defined normal for them, and therefore for us to just wash our hands of them because they have made choices that don't line up with maybe our value system, or our belief system, says that that unconditional love was truly conditional, truly conditional,
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yes, yes. And it's interesting because I saw when I had a big family gathering and I watched all the different generations together, it absolutely was a light bulb moment for me, because I realized that every single one of those people in that room who was talking to a parent, so even a 40 year old talking to his dad, what they really wanted was the parent to just tell them they're proud of them and that they love them, without actually necessarily being explicit. But you don't stop needing that
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when you come you know 40 year old man, right?
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Well, I actually had a client, and I'll call him Joe. I had a there was a woman that I was seeing in therapy for depression, and so she was 65 and I said to her, would, would you mind inviting your husband to come in for a session? And she said, Well, I don't think he will come, because he's he doesn't believe in any of this.
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And I said, would, would you just mind asking him if he would come see me? And she said, I'll ask him. So sure enough, Joe agreed to come in and see me.
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And so we get started. And I, you know, I was asking some questions that I knew he would be comfortable asking so I could lower his anxiety. And so we were about 15 to 20 minutes into the interview, and he stopped me and he says, Can I ask you a question? And I said, Of course.
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He said, Can you please tell me why my mom and dad don't love me? And I said, Well, tell me more, Joe. He said, I took over their business, and I have built that business, and I have spent my whole life trying to make them proud. And he said, no matter what I do, it's never enough. And he said, What do I ever What did I have to do to make them like me and to make them love me? And these big old tears just rolls down, and I thought to myself, I know why your wife is depressed. I know why your children are frustrated because you never received the blessing from your parents that you were enough and that you were loved simply because you were theirs, and you've spent your whole life trying to earn their favor and to earn their love, and it's not achievable, and it was one of the saddest moments of my career, and I was thinking the generations of people that will be impacted because they didn't know how to love him and separate out responsibilities in a work situation from seeing him and knowing Him as their son, and I thought there's these type of tragedies that go on throughout the world, over and over and again in families when if we just would bless our children simply because they are that doesn't mean we don't hold them accountable when they're growing in our homes. We it's our job to have discipline. It's our job to have accountability and support, to fan the flame of their gifting. It's all those kinds of things, as you know, that we talk about in those first 18 years, but we have to come to terms that we are not their judge. We are to be their ally and let them walk through some of the hard things that life will hand them, because it will.
00:29:05.578 --> 00:29:15.959
But how do I show up? As that support is so key, and we've got to get off this idea that they have to be perfect, because by no stretch of the imagination are we.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:41.079
Oh, my goodness, I love all this. I think you're so right, and that whole sitting as judge, not being our role, is so critically important. And I guess the question is, how do parents know whether they're striking the balance correctly? Is there any way that we should be judging our kids or trying to guide them? No, not, unless they ask us.
00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:52.900
I mean, at the end of the day, we really need to be waiting for them to invite us into that space. My dad, my dad, always had this habit.
00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:59.920
After I was 25 he would have this habit of saying, Now, are you asking me my opinion? And I would say, I am asking your opinion. And he'd say, Okay.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:43.660
Okay, this is just what I think you decide for yourself. This is how I see it. And it was he always wanted to be sure. It was very clear that I was asking and that, secondly, he always made it clear that his perspective may not line up with my experience, so mine might be different. So it's a lovely way to show respect, that we could be have differing ideas, but that I wanted to learn how he perceived something, because I knew he was a wise man. And so I just think our approach is so important, and, you know, being able to dialog and but we have to just let them show us where they're inviting us to and I think so, yes,
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:51.700
yes. So isn't it's interesting, is it because my, my bonus daughter, moved to Uzbekistan with her boyfriend.
00:30:51.700 --> 00:32:04.440
She was wanting to live in Istanbul. And, you know, I there were parents only locally who said, That's just ridiculous. I mean, why are you letting her do that? And my my response is, well, you know, she's 29 and this is her choice, and obviously we have our own concerns, because we want her to have a good life, and we want her things to work out the way she wants them to. But what was amazing was to she calls, and she'll she'll have an hour and a half long conversation with me on the phone about something that's bothering her, and she'll ask for help, but we didn't try to guide that. And what's fascinating is how what she hopes isn't necessarily what's happened, but actually some other wonderful things have happened as a result. And being able to be parents, where we just go we're just going to let her figure this stuff out, has been a revelation to us, because we've learned from it. We've watched her blossom. We've grown in confidence in her, and it's been wonderful. She's back here for a couple of weeks, and we've got a lovely time to spend with her. But you know is that being able to release her from the fears that we have and allow her to just make her path through life. It's hard, though, isn't it?
00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:28.759
It's very hard. And because, um, naturally, as a parent, we want them to be protected. We want them to be safe, right? And because of our experience of having lived longer, we often can see things that they don't see. But I do think you, you said something really important, Rachel, and that is, we have to be really careful that we don't project our anxiety onto them.
00:32:23.240 --> 00:33:10.500
Yeah, and it's easy. It's not an easy thing to do. We have to really check that in, because I can remember Taylor had when he was traveling abroad, and while he was in college, he did three international studies and traveled all over the world, 35 different countries. But this is a young man who has narcolepsy, and so I had all kinds of anxiety of him falling asleep on a train right, waking up and having missed a stop, or getting, you know, mugged, or something, you know. And I just had to go, I have to release this. I have to trust him. I have to trust that he's going to figure this out. And, you know.
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:34.099
And he did, right? But I had to just really, you know, the only thing I said to him is I asked three things of you, right? I asked to know which country you're in at all times, I ask that you keep some kind of identification on you that connects you to me and that we talk on, you know, at least a monthly basis, so that way I know where in the world you are.
00:33:29.900 --> 00:34:02.880
And I didn't want to put a lot on him, but I needed, if he was going to be a world traveler, to at least have my own anxiety lowered. So I said to him, this is what would help me not worry about you, and he could hear that because I communicated what I needed, and at the same time, didn't, didn't attempt to try to manage or control him and remind him or whatever. I just say, let me know how I can support you, you know. And so it's a question of, we have to learn it, though it's and every kid is different.
00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:21.079
Every child is different. You don't do it the same because, you know, there's there. They interpret things differently, and their experiences are different. So we just have to be really aware. Our growth has to always be evolving and unfolding. We can't stop growing just because they hit adulthood.
00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:24.679
In fact, our greatest growth may actually be when they become adults, yes,
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:27.920
yes, and what?
00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:44.500
So obviously, my audience is largely tween, teenager, and a little bit beyond that. So looking at the current parents of tweens and teens, what sort of emotional habits and patterns could be happening at the moment, which we can use to avoid future rifts. You
00:34:44.500 --> 00:35:05.880
know, I think one thing is that we need to be at our best when they are at their worst, and the reason for that is if we wig out when they've done something stupid as a teenager, what happens is the focus. Isn't on the mistake they made. The focus is on managing the emotions of their parents.
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:33.139
Wow, yes and yes. And the opportunity for them to learn the lesson they really needed to learn is completely lost because they're over there trying to supermanage us. How do I get them to calm down? Yeah, how do I get out of this crisis where they won't, you know, punish me forever. Their whole focus is on managing the relationship versus learning the lesson. And there can be that delays some growth for them.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.099
Yes, brilliant.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:37.099
That's a really great point.
00:35:37.579 --> 00:36:01.380
Yeah, and it's so also an adult child, has pulled away, you know, for the parents who might be going through this, how are there any signs that you have ever seen which might signal that there's an opportunity for repair? What you know, are there any hope, hopeful stories, or ways in which people can pull this in? And you know, you talked about the do over what?
00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:02.340
What can parents do?
00:36:03.599 --> 00:37:09.300
You know, I recently had a friend who had not really heard from her daughter since the wedding they her daughter had gotten married, and for two and a half years they had been estranged, and she said, I I've reached out. I have no idea. And she said, you know, but I'm not going to stop reaching out. I'm just going to keep saying, you know, I, I will send her her birthday cards. I will send a text saying, I just want you to know I'm celebrating you today. You know, she said I, I don't quit doing what I would do if we weren't estranged. I've continued to let her know that I'm thinking of her and that I'm that I'm here, and then I want to, I want to know if there's something that I've done and that I'm sorry, that I've if there's something that I've done and that I'm not aware of, I'm sorry that I don't know what that is. And when you're ready to forgive me, or when you're ready to talk about it, that door is open, I'm ready. And so I talked to her just about two months ago, and she said I kept had kept doing what I had done.
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:50.500
And she responded, and she said, she said, Hi, Mom, yes, let's go have dinner. And she said, one thing led to the other, and the next thing she brought her husband, and the next thing we all had family dinner, and she was like and she said, I'm still not fully sure all that has happened and why it happened, but she said, I didn't quit, and I kept moving and loving and praying. And she said, I'm going to continue to be the best version of myself, and I'm going to be very respectful and very healthy and keep working on me.
00:37:45.880 --> 00:38:11.579
And she said, that's what I can bring to the table, is, is what I can control, and I'm the only one that I can control. And I think it's never, you know. I'm working on a book right now, and, it'll be out next year, and it's called it's, I think the title is going to be, it's never too late to be a great parent.
00:38:06.480 --> 00:40:01.920
And it's the idea that we should never give up. We shouldn't give up on ourselves no matter what we've done. We should never, ever, ever give up on ourselves, just like we should never give up on our kids, and therefore it may take years for restoration to come, but we cannot quit on either of us. I see again and again, and you know, I'll I'll be honest with you, Rachel, I am the product of a restored relationship, because from the time I was five to the time. I was 25 I had a very, very difficult relationship with my own father, and I tried the first 10 from five to 15, I tried to be invisible so he couldn't publicly shame me. He and he was in a public position, and I didn't he would publicly shame me. So my goal was to be invisible. At 15 I made an appointment to go see him to say, I want a relationship with you. He threw me out of his office. We did not have a conversation. Wow, for another 10 years, I went back at 25 and said, Dad, I want a relationship with you, but it can't be the way we've always had it. And he said, I made a lot of mistakes with you. Kath, and he said, I can undo them. He said, The only thing I can do is give you my word that moving forward, I can be the dad that you needed, not the dad that you had. From that moment forward, he became the dad that I needed, and until the very last breath of his body, I was there with him when he died, to the very last breath of his body. He really worked at being this respectful, kind, caring, nurturing father, but I had to do a lot of work in therapy to recover from the pain of his rejection and the pain of his perfectionism and the pain of that. So I had my own work to do, because I didn't want to bring bitter. Us to a marriage.
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:44.920
I didn't want to bring and project my unhealthy experience as a child into my my role as a wife and my role as a mom, so I had to do my own work and do the forgiving, and so I could be ready to have that relationship with him, but I was so fortunate that he was willing to own his part and say, you know, I want to do right now, and I just think we have to. I I'm the recipient of redemption. I always want to be sure that I empower and support people to not never quit, because I think life is too short, and at the end of the day, it's, it's the relationships that'll matter.
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:46.900
Beautiful.
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That's a wonderful way to end this. Catherine, if people want to find you, what, how? How would they find you?
00:40:53.679 --> 00:41:19.380
Check out my website, parenting adult children today.com. You can email me, Catherine, at parenting adult children today.com. I'm on Tiktok and social, Instagram and all those things. So would love to hear from anyone and help and support people wherever they are, because it's a it's not an easy job, but it's absolutely the worthwhile job to have an opportunity to love Well,
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:28.099
yeah, completely agree. It's made me grow in so many ways, and I'm loving a parent as a result, but it's very stressful and hard work at the same. Yes, it is.
00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:45.940
I'll put all your links in the podcast notes. So have it. You know, you can, don't have to write it down. You can find them there. If you found this helpful, send it right now to someone who might benefit. You can give it five stars on your podcasting app or even a review.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:42:00.119
You can find me on my website, which is www.teenagersuntangled.com or email me at teenagers untangled gmail.com, that's it. Have a great week and a big hug from me. Bye, bye. You. You.
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