Oct. 14, 2025
How to fix your teen's sleep with Jessica Bryant. 163
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What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover? Sleep's a FREE performance-enhancer, so why are so many teens not getting enough? For us parents, sleep is the thing we all obsess about when we first bring our babies home, but if you're anything like me by the time they hit teens we've become pretty lax around that solid bedtime routine. In fact, research shows that around 2/3rds of teenagers aren't getting adequate sleep. Why does this happen? In my case, I...
What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover?
Sleep's a FREE performance-enhancer, so why are so many teens not getting enough?
For us parents, sleep is the thing we all obsess about when we first bring our babies home, but if you're anything like me by the time they hit teens we've become pretty lax around that solid bedtime routine. In fact, research shows that around 2/3rds of teenagers aren't getting adequate sleep.
Why does this happen? In my case, I was exhausted from years of implementing a solid routine and they had become more interesting, so I wanted to spend more time with my kids in the evening. They were also busy doing other things; sports, socialising, homework.
Mostly, I think it's not a goal we target or brag about, so it becomes the silent victim of our busy lives.
That's why I decided it was time to talk to an expert (and parent who's navigated this) on sleep.
In this conversation Jessica Bryant helps us parents really think about our family attitude to sleep, how to support our teens in getting the amount they need, and to problem-solve your struggles.
Thanks to all of you lovely listeners who sent in your questions.
Jessica Bryant Sleep Happy Consulting
https://www.sleephappyconsulting.com/
The original sleep episode:
https://www.teenagersuntangled.com/sleep-the-free-fix-for-our-teens-with-no-side-effects/
RESEARCH:
Showed insufficient sleep on an average school night was reported by 68.9% of students. It was associated with higher odds of current use of cigarettes, marijuana, current sexual activity, seriously considered attempting suicide, feeling sad or hopeless, physical fighting, not being physically active:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21843548/
Cross-national variations in adolescent sleep patters:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/375375396_Cross-National_Variations_in_Adolescent_Sleep_Patterns_A_Time-Use_Study?utm_source=chatgpt.com
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You can review us on Apple podcasts by going to the show page, scrolling down to the bottom where you can click on a star then you can leave your message.
I don't have medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
And my website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact me:
www.teenagersuntangled.com
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You can reach Susie at www.amindful-life.co.uk
WEBVTT
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Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagersuntangled the audio hug for parents going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now this is where you find out what experts are saying about the problems we face, and where, as the world leading expert on your own child, you get to choose what works for you and your own family, shame and judgment free. Now sleep. I've already done a couple, I think of episodes talking about the importance of it, and I'll put the links to them in the notes, but the topic keeps cropping up.
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So when I was talking with the elite coach, Ned Johnson, he said sleep deprivation has the same impact on our brains as stress. Tish Fielden of Jamie's farm, who gives kids a taste of life on a farm and has amazing structures in place for those children, told me that she really wishes she'd given sleep more attention when her kids were teens. Is easily done. I think we all know in the back of our minds that sleep is important, but how many of us give it the importance and priority it genuinely deserves?
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So when my kids were little, I had a rigid structure because I knew that it was the only way to stay sane. But I have to admit, I became much more lax as they became teens, and as a result of the episode on routines and everything I've learned about devices, I'm way more assertive when it comes to bedtime and structure at home now, but today I'm joined by the sleep strategist, better sleep Council spokesperson, and mum of three, so she's on the front lines herself. Jessica Bryant, hello.
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Jessica, hello. I'm so excited to be here. I'd like to talk in this episode about why sleep matters so much. What are the reasons our kids aren't getting enough sleep, and what can we do about the very real problems we face as parents. And I've had some great questions from listeners, so we'll we'll tackle them in a bit. Shall We? We?
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Shall? I'm excited to dive in right now. Let's begin. How did you become convinced that sleep was something that you should be sort of talking about and focusing on?
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When I became a mom, sleep had always been important to me. Growing up, I was a big sleeper and and I was an only child, so that's really easy, especially growing Yes, in the 70s, much easier to maintain sleep and priorities back then than today. And when I became a mom in 2003 i There wasn't much information about it, and there, you know, there wasn't Google.
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Thank goodness that might have overwhelmed me. And with my background in child development, I've been a nanny. I knew how toddlers slept. I've been an early intervention specialist with the Birth to Three population, so with developmental delays. And so I, I was used to knowing about development, but with all that information about development, nobody was talking about practiceable routines for sleep.
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And so I happen to learn, as many of us do, from that mom that's just a little bit farther along. Who's the genius, you know, offhanded conversation on a neighborhood night out. And she said, Well, you know, three, four and five month olds can sleep seven to seven and be healthy. And I was like, whoa.
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What? Really, I know toddlers can, but this is my first time to have a baby 24 hours a day.
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So I went right home, and I was like, I finally get to test my own children. So I got the book I followed three days later on the mark. You know, she was sleeping that way. And so, long story short, people noticed that that my kids were sleeping or that I said no to things because of bedtime or nap. They noticed their demeanor or my demeanor at the playground, and patience level. And people were like, What's wrong with her?
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I'm getting enough sleep. I'm actually getting enough sleep. Yeah, yeah.
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So I just was trying to help when I could, because I had twins three and a half years later after two misconrges, and I was like, and like you mentioned in the intro, I had to remain some level of sanity. And so I was like, How do I get these two individual people that are now sleeping in the same room on the same schedule as their older sister?
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So, you know, it was definitely different, as all children are, but we got there and it it was a massive game changer. So if that is my quirky way that I can help another mom or child reach their full potential, I'm offering it out into the world. So that's yeah, because there isn't that much. Well, now there's too much information, but now for teens, I don't think much at all.
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Interestingly.
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I think you're right. I think we really focus on those early years. And as I said in the intro, I dropped the ball a bit when my kids became teenagers, because they became a bit more, they pushed back a bit more. They had other things that they were doing. And you think, Oh, well, it will just have to stretch. And we can figure, we can figure it out. And I read a.
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Report, I think it's quite an old report because, and it gets cited a lot, but a report from 2011 which was saying that two thirds of adolescent students in the US were reporting insufficient sleep, so that's below eight hours, and
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percent of high school students in the US are not getting the minimum, which is eight hours of sleep a night.
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And I must add, because I looked at, which is quite a recent one, and it was very interesting, because it was doing diary studies of kids from around the world. And they, I think they covered, I'll put it into the link notes. But there was South Korea, South Africa, various European countries, including France, I think Finland, Hungary, UK and America. And actually they found a wide variation between these different countries. What they found was South Korea had the worst in terms of Yeah, yeah.
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Shortest amounts
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was Finland the best. Because I feel like some of the reasons I had said they were the best sleepers
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interesting in the world. I think that this particular study found South Africa. Interestingly enough, I'm sure, yeah, no, no, no, but I do think Finland is a much better so it sort of varies. And they said in Spain, kids tend to have kind of later going to bed, because that's the culture. They nap more, all those sorts of see what I just want to bring in.
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That was not consistent across the world, but the truth is, most teenagers are not getting enough sleep. Is that? That's what you're saying, right? So why does it matter?
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It matters for our brain and for our health, and if we are not getting that minimum, and like you've said, All children are different, it's a range and but we have to find out what the range and the needs are for our individual children.
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But so much is going in and on in our brain, so much pruning, so much cognitive development, so much connection is building.
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And if the brain doesn't have that downtime to download, to store memories, to clear out the garbage, then the brain is not ready the next day to take on new memories, to learn new tasks, to put that in the temporary storage to then you go to sleep that night and it chooses What to move to long term storage. So that's just the basics. But if we're sleep deprived, you know, we our motor coordination is failing, so we're putting teaching these kiddos how to drive as teenagers and putting them out on the road. You know, our focus, our attention, our we are expecting teams to perform at such a high level every single day, but we're not. We don't have the foundation of what they need first. We think, at least in the US, you know, that select sports or things, you know, homework and all these things are more important, and sleep falls to the bottom. And I don't necessarily always fault the parent, because they've got so much going on and in their face all the time. And for me, I took my youngest daughter to her last pediatrician appointment, so her 17 year old checkup before she went to college. And I don't know how it is in the UK, but we get this packet of paper that we come home with with just like the stats and then, you know, development age, wear your sunscreen, put your helmet on, you know, seat belt, all that, okay, and at the very bottom of the page, and probably, like, size five font was, get enough sleep. How does that help a parent doesn't contract information, you know, specific information of even the sleep range.
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And also it doesn't help the kids, because if it's in the document as the one of the last things and not a priority, then why is the child going because I remember being a teenager and thinking, I don't understand why I'm expected to sleep, because, frankly, it's a waste of my time. There are so many things I'd rather be doing and I wasn't doing much of any interest whatsoever. I mean, my life is very, very boring.
00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:29.059
However, I still thought sleep was utterly pointless. And I love what you're saying, because, of course, teenagers are going through the biggest stage of mental pruning that ever happens in their lives, and yet we're not giving them that space to actually perform that for their brains and their bodies to do that.
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What's so interesting about new research, because we know so much more now than we did when we were growing up, is that they're seeing that sleep loss, you know, chronically over time is restructuring the brain, you know, there's less matter and different different volumes and different parts, so when you think, and that can be in an adult, so, you know, so let alone a child, you know, right?
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We parents aren't given that information about brain development. That we're when, once we have teens, they're so close to, you know, looking like adults. You know, their brains, their head size, don't change.
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We we sometimes forget that they are still children and that so much is going on. And if you know, if you're someone who didn't have a background in child development, how would you just know that you know, like you're not getting that information in your marketing class or at college before you have kids or anything like that.
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It's not out there, even in the pediatrician's office, it's the bottom it promotes that whole we'll sleep when we're dead.
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You're lazy. If you're tired, you're lazy if you're saying that you're going to sleep, kind of mentality that our society has,
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has, and it's not something you can brag about. You don't let you can say, Oh, my son scored such and such a goal in rugby, or my daughter, you know, got did this in her ballet class, or whatever. You can't say, you know, my kid got eight. In fact, my kid got 10 hours sleep. You know, no one brags about that.
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No one even really talks about it. In fact, they moan because they're like, why is my child sleeping so long?
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But I will say one thing that I wonder if kids, if teenagers, would be interested in is if they looked at the best sports athletes in the world today that they follow. You know, Tom Brady in America, a lot talks about his sleep and his sleep hygiene and his routines and things like that. And if, if they're looking at some of those role models that we they don't talk about their sleep very much, but if they dive in and see, oh my goodness, you know, they are putting in the intentionality and the work to performing at the level
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that they want, right? So, yeah, it's just changing the the narrative around it. And what do you think of the biggest barriers that prevent teens getting enough sleep? I mean, is it biology, technology, com, what's going
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on? I think there's several different factors. I think number one, like you had mentioned that you felt that as your children got into the teen years, you kind of backed off a little bit, and I definitely did the same. And it was really hard for me, because their brain, once they're going through puberty, their brain is releasing that melatonin and that those wind down hormones much later in the night. And for some kids, that affects them differently, especially in my case, my ADHD daughter, really struggled to fall asleep until late in Yes, yes. And then, you know, and then you've got school. Or for her, she was raising livestock, so she needed to be at the barn at 630 in the morning and feeding lambs, and then going to school and things like that. So, but other families have band, or they have football, or they have ballet.
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You know, there's all different things. And so if parents just they don't know what sleep looks like to even like you say, Get curious about their child's sleep and to talk about it and to prioritize it, because it does look different than, you know, the Seven 8pm bedtime for elementary school, and, and then I think that the world today prioritizes, like we said so many other things, that sleep is at the bottom. We can, we can sleep when we're dead. And, and then, of course, just social norms and how their friends, what their friends, you know, bedtimes are, or nighttime things. And I think a lot of the parents, the moms in my generation, we didn't grow up with phones, and so when we gave our children phones, we were figuring it out as we went. And I was one of those parents who was like, Okay, I can't put down the phone. Like, so how can I expect my 1314, year old to do that? So my children had to check it in at night, you know, and things like that. But as they you know, so I think there's that the world is on 24 hours a day, whereas when I was growing up, you know, nothing exciting was going on, nothing television or in my parents house, and
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TV would switch off, right, right,
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and I wasn't allowed to use the phone after 9pm
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Yeah, yes, interesting. But what would you say to parents who say, Well, the problem is also that the body clock shifts. And so my kids are like, I don't want to go to bed. I don't, you know, I'm not ready. I don't I'm not interested in sleeping. You know, how do we tackle that?
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Because I had, I think, Vanessa Heaney jewelry. She said her big problem is getting them into bed at a decent time. And Benedict said she can't get them to sort of wind down before they're supposed to go to bed. She's really struggling with that.
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What sort of suggestions do you have?
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Get really curious about their morning, and how do how do they feel in the morning? How are they waking up?
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What is their time constraint?
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You know, what time do they need to be up and out? Yes. What time does their school start all of those things, and then back it up and start your questioning and wondering with, well, how do you feel in the morning, or was it easy to get out of bed? Did you wake up before your alarm?
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You know? Did you? Did you set five alarms, and are you still in bed? You know. And maybe that's the question for the mom you know it, you know. Is the mom waking up the child and having to drag them out of bed?
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Or is the child independent in the morning and starting to just talk about how their body feels and approach it as you're advocating for them, to advocate for their body and be connected and in touch with when. You know when to wind down and how they feel during the day. You know, when are they drinking caffeine?
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If they are how much coffee?
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Yes, or do they know how much caffeine is in an energy drink?
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And you know, then just start wondering, well, how do you feel in the afternoon, things like that. Or how do you feel when you start your homework at 8pm just trying to learn, are they a morning person or an evening person? And just start there, and then I would start by giving them, you know, just the parent learning what sleep looks like for a teenager, 13 to 18 year olds need eight to 10 hours of sleep, and there's definitely plenty of teenagers that need you know the 1011 hours of sleep. So that's just a recommendation.
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And for how would you know? How would you know if your child is the 10 hour sleep person. It would just be
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how they feel throughout the day. You know, the tricky part is, on the weekend, say it's the weekend and they're waking up naturally, on their own. What does that look like? How much sleep did they get that night? And it doesn't have to be exact, but even asking them how they feel when they wake up on a weekend day where they don't have something at 630 in the morning, versus how they feel on a Monday, I would start with that.
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And you can't really control they're getting 10 hours of sleep, or they're getting eight hours of sleep. But you can help scaffold and you can set the rhythms in your home at night that this is when we wind down.
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And you don't have to be asleep, but you have to have turned in your screen, your things like that, especially for our 1314, and 15 year olds. You know those things are turned in and you can go to your room and you can draw. You can do fidget spinners, you can color, you can journal. You can listen to music that's not on your screen. So buy the extra old digital alarm clock or record player or something like that, so they're not tempted to be to just pick that up. But
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yes, I love the mention of the digital alarm clock, because I remember talking to a friend of mine who said, Oh, my daughter, I can't take her phone away because, you know, she uses it has her alarm.
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And I just said, so can't you just buy a separate alarm clock?
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They're really cheap. And she went, Oh yeah, my daughter also likes to have a sound machine to help her sleep. And she'd like to say, Oh no, I need my computer for that. No, darling, I'm buying you a separate sound machine because that does make a difference, right?
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Yes, I'm not catching these the better sleep Council's podcast, we just had someone come in and talk about the benefit of music therapy for winding down and calming the nervous system. And I learned a lot there, and then also the practice of breath work and even just deep breathing, not you know, but there's such a wide, vast way to, like, learn about your body and how music and all of the highs and the lows feel to you individually, or breathing and calming that can be used in other parts of the day to wind down when you're stressed. But definitely, I think the bedtime routine is something that we miss because we don't remember that teenagers and frankly, adults need that our brains need help going from I'm actively busy learning, taking in information to sleep is coming
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next. Yes,
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there needs to be a bridge the at the thought of, oh, I just going to do all these things and check off all these boxes, and then I'm going to go lay in my bed and I'm going to and I'm going to fall asleep in five seconds. That is a myth, not actually an example of sleep deprivation. Like falling asleep quickly is not a positive. It's not a goal. We should all reach to
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it interesting.
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Yes, Oh, interesting. I My daughter said that what they found really helpful was having a. Cleansing routine where they knew they had the very specific routine, it sort of cued to their brains that that was their going to bed time. But what I have found that they do that's very annoying, and I say annoying in inverted commas, is they come and emotionally dump on me just before going to bed and and I then they go and sleep soundly, and I then can't sleep.
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And it's, is this a common thing? You know, there's sort of just this energy, this emotional energy, and they need somewhere for it to go, and they use me, and I'm kind of grateful, because I'm like, Okay, now you're going to sleep. But is that
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i Yes, I love that, because that's such a great connection at the end of the night. But where I find it hard is it's so late I had my my college age daughter, come in one night when she was home, and she's like, sitting at the end of my bed, and she's talking to me, and I'm just listening, because A, I thought that's what I was supposed to do when you're that age. And then B, she goes, Mom, you're not talking to me. And I'm like, it. It's after 10pm I don't like have a lot of words, but I think that that is so great for connection, but it's also good for you to notice that that helps them sleep. So there's other things that you could you could have them test out, like when I'm not here, or when I'm already asleep. What could you do? You could journal, you know, or you love that suggestion, a picture about whatever you know, draw what happened that day that was stressful, so that you're still giving them something to feel validated and get it out before they sleep and reduce their stress.
00:21:39.259 --> 00:21:44.499
Wow. Jessica, that's absolutely brilliant. I love that. I'm going love that.
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I'm going to make my kids just gonna say, You know what? Once it's this time, it's journals, it's not talking, yeah, I mean, I don't want to stop them, but there are sometimes and I'm just, I'm, I am, I'm desperate.
00:21:53.199 --> 00:22:36.078
I want to go to sleep and and I loved, also what you were talking about with the scheduling, because I have found with my ADHD daughter, I've created a schedule, and I've actually put it on the wall, and I used chat GPT to do this. I said, this is what time her lecture start, so this is what time she needs to be on the train. So this is what time she needs to start walking, or I have to give her a lift. So they're two slightly different times, therefore she needs to be up at this time. And I put those on the list, and then we've counted back from then, and it has made a massive difference to her, because she was a horrible sleeper, really erratic, but having that actual something she can look at. That's not about me nagging her, it's the process.
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So I point at the chart, and I say, Yeah, but the chart says, Is this something that you
00:22:40.160 --> 00:23:08.819
absolutely it's definitely something that I do, especially with my toddlers. You know, I started kind of 18 months, 16 months, and we are empowering them with the expectation. So taking that, and I actually have a chart on my website that's basically, what time do you need to get up in the morning? And then how much sleep do you need? And so what time do you need to go to bed?
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You know, for adults, for teens, for younger children. But that I reverse engineer it. That's do exactly what you did. What time does she need to be up? I think it's also another important thing. Because some children, my son can get up and 30 minutes out the door, be, be out the door. You know, he doesn't need wake up time. His twin sister, she needs an hour, you know, where she does not have to feel rushed or anxiety ridden or anything like that. And so learning those differences, and then absolutely, you've backed it up. And then you've, you know, this is eight hours, or this is 10 hours that you need.
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So then you, you know, the best ideal, which every day is not ideal, but here is the when you need to be in your room, winding down, or that is so helpful. And yes, that is what I have done with adults and teenagers and that scaffolding. You're not bossing them around, you're not telling them just you're using curiosity to say this system we tried is not working. So let's, let's, let's revisit it and reverse engineer it, and let's test that out and see how you feel.
00:24:23.420 --> 00:24:38.359
Yeah, I love that, because I think it just takes all the emotion and heat out of it, and we're not trying to control them. And it's interesting, another problem that people seem to have. My bonus daughter, it's funny, she's living with us at the moment. She's 30, and she's always had a massive problem with waking up in the morning.
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So of course, she's not getting enough sleep, but she has 123, alarms going off.
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Tell me. Talk to me about this. Why? What?
00:24:47.559 --> 00:25:01.440
Okay, so I would ask her, is the 345, alarms. This is very common for teens and tweens. Is that helping her get up in the morning? And how does she feel?
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I. Right? And you know the
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I think she switches it off and goes back to
00:25:04.079 --> 00:26:00.779
sleep. The reason is, you're teaching your brain, when it hears that sound to go back to sleep. No, oh, right, yes. You're not teaching your brain, yes, of course, it's time to get up. So I would encourage her to choose one alarm to set and then get her eyes in the light as soon as possible. So, yeah, lamps, you know, if she has anything automated that you know have her, you know, if she has any of those smart bulbs, have the light in her room coming on at the same time as the alarm, or open the blinds, open the window or go outside and literally put your eyeballs in the sun for like 10 minutes, you know, still in your pajamas, you know, just and that will help reset her circadian rhythm and get better at we have one alarm. And then secondly, exactly what you said, Rachel, look at her bedtime.
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What time is she falling asleep and like, and incrementally back it up, you know, 1530 minutes, and just help retrain the brain.
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Because if, if people are going to bed at midnight and they're getting up at 6am for work, you can't just say, Oh, well, tonight, I'm going to go to bed at 930 10. You know that often time doesn't work, so just slowly work it back and build in that habit to, ideally, she's waking up before her alarm, and now
00:26:29.479 --> 00:27:06.239
work out a schedule and say, Okay, we're going to do this over this bit of life. I love that. And what about I mean, there are things that are in our control. I love that you mentioned caffeine. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and they were talking about how we can have an intake of glucose, and then five hours later, it has an impact, like it's actually having a big impact. And I think often we don't consider the things that we're eating drinking and the impact they might be having on our sleep. And I've noticed I need to eat quite early in the evening, otherwise that's going to disrupt my sleep. Is this something that you talk to your clients about at all?
00:27:07.500 --> 00:28:05.759
Yes, we touch on it a little bit, but definitely medication and ADHD medication with my daughter, I was very specific about you have to get up in the morning because you have to take your morning your medicine early enough so that it works through your body. I always encourage caffeine to be completed at least by 2pm because, like you mentioned, glucose, caffeine has a half life. And you know all the science between how long it takes to work out of your body, and so I like to be done with it by noon, but definitely for younger kids, like eating and drinking and right at bedtime definitely affects our younger children's sleep, our three, four and five year olds and things like that. So I think everyone's very different in terms of like dinner and and what we're drinking. And I just don't understand that. After dinner at cappuccino or espresso,
00:28:07.019 --> 00:29:01.859
my husband does that he and he's like, it doesn't affect me at all. And I just think, whatever. No, I do think it's worth, you know, if your kids is or you are having problems with sleep, I do think it's worth keeping your food diary and just seeing or just a diarrhea for the things that are happening. Because I love what you're saying. It's almost about sort of, well, let's just unpick everything that's going on and try and figure out, you know, make it a process. And I do have, I had someone contact me hop in a skip who said their 13 year old has never had a good sleep function. Even as a young baby, they fought naps. They never fell asleep in the car or got tired when they're on these big camping trips, when they're out in the cold and the, you know, hiking around. So what can we do? And I remember another mum in my mum group who was on her knees because her daughter didn't sleep. She just seemed to need about four hours sleep a night, and then she was back up again. Is this something we can what's going on here.
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:52.779
So I think first it would be wondering about just their central nervous system, and if it's in this very strict routine of not sleeping, and so just kind of hold that information there. And then I think I would start with questions like, Is there any airway trouble? Is, is the child sleeping with their their mouth open? Do you know Sleep apnea is very affected. You don't get into that deep sleep if you are waking up multiple times a night because your airway is not clear and your body is is? Is, you know, you're grinding your teeth, or your you've got TMJ problems, things like that. So I definitely question adenoids, airway, you know, any of that.
00:29:53.079 --> 00:30:43.480
And then I would, I would wonder about just stress and their. Are just their level of fight or flight, if they're not getting that much sleep, if they are just kind of, you know, always in this very over stimulated state. And I do like that you bring in the example that they've gone camping and they're out in the woods and things like that. So I would wonder about their sleep environment, you know, is there something that's uncomfortable or light that wakes them up? And I would definitely visit their health care provider and and come with data, you know, at this age, this age, a few little notes.
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:54.400
But like, over the last week, this is the bedtime that I have structured. This is their reaction. I feel like they're only sleeping between this time.
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And then, if they're 13 and they're getting up in the middle of the night, what are they doing? You know, are they getting up and having a bowl of I had, I had a an adult client who was like, I get it. I can't sleep at 3am so I get up and I eat cereal and I watch golf, and then I try to go back to sleep.
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:15.240
And I was like, no, no, we can't do that.
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:57.220
So my daughter, my daughter, went through a phase of that, and I would find her downstairs. But I also discovered that I would take I take my kids devices away, so I put my device out, and their devices had to go with it. But then I discovered my daughter was getting up and taking the device when I was asleep. So I then decided I'd leave my device outside. All the devices locked in my room so they couldn't access them. And I know that a lot of pediatricians who say that they've got kids coming in with all sorts of problems with focusing in school and stuff, and then when they've really sort of paired it down, they've looked in detail, they found that their kid is using a device and their parents didn't even know about it. It's very hard.
00:31:57.940 --> 00:33:16.619
I took my oldest to the neurologist for her migraines about seventh eighth grade. And you know, we talked a lot about her sleep, and she's definitely always been my best sleeper. My son might have surpassed her, but the pediatric neurologist said, Oh, I recently just had to hire a behavior therapist for my practice to work with parents, because the parents were not for his seizure patients and all lot of families, they were not redoing their schedules, because, you know that we had to have soccer practice at 8pm and we had to do this, and he's like, your child has A medical diagnosis that requires, you know, this much sleep. It for their health, and the parents didn't know how to do it and couldn't do it. And we're executing. We're following through. So I would definitely, you know, look at their sleep, their mood, and and do a diary of sorts. Yeah. And I think the hardest part is parents are like, well, they're not tired, right? They're just, they're they're just that person who only needs four hours sleep. But what if they're not, you know?
00:33:11.819 --> 00:33:42.339
And what if that is their system working on overdrive, and fight or flight, and that's going to take a toll. And so I would just encourage them to reach out to someone and talk about that, especially start with health care. And if they say, everything is great, then start with a sleep consultant or sleep coach or behavior therapist or something like that, because I'm curious about their their nervous system is so used to it.
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:57.039
It It is their pattern, and so if they do something different, it's going to revolt, and that can be hard to to manage. As the parent, where you're trying to be all just, you know, give them some autonomy, but you're also trying to help, because you feel like this is just
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:59.679
not normal. And I love that you mentioned about that trying to change things, because once they've got used to this being normal, trying to change away from normal, even if their normal isn't healthy, is very challenging. And that one mother wrote in and said she has a son who's now 18, who falls asleep every night watching YouTube or a movie, and he has his head on his iPad, and she can hear it thumping on the ground, and she said, I'm he's addicted to his devices. And she said this whole clean bedroom type therapy would give him a panic attack, and he's always been an unsettled sleeper. And so how for parents who've got kids who've gone, oh no, I have to have this to sleep. I have to have can't, you know. And I know, having spoken to my daughter, one of the things she said was that when she was anxious, she used to try and use books, audio books, or things, she would listen to them, because then she wouldn't have to think about the things she was worried about. And I wonder whether, what are your thoughts about this kid or this 18 year olds difficult situation? But how would you tackle that?
00:34:59.679 --> 00:36:02.400
I. That's That's very hard, very tricky. And you know, stress is overarching problem at at night time, and so if we aren't processing emotions and dealing with those, and I think our young people, we aren't doing as good a job as a society, as a community, on helping children process emotions, as we see with the mental health epidemic that is facing all of our kids and and then to have an 18 year old, and they're adults, so, you know, I think that's very tricky. You know, you can't turn off. I mean, you could turn off the house. Wi Fi, you know, at a certain time. Yeah, you know our that we pay for it. I mean, unless he's paying for it, you know. But if I think all you can do at that point is make sure that you're sleeping well, and your behaviors and your health.
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:24.260
You're in the house that you can model it. You don't have to shove it down their throat. You can be concerned. But I think you you know, you kind of have to release it at this point. And if there's anything in terms of, you know, 18 year old. And in the United States, I mean, he could still be in high school.
00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:42.460
So yeah, versus, I know, in the UK, they can be out of school, or they in trade school or working, or things like that. So I think that comes into play too. Like, if you're in high school, you have a little bit more scaffolding and rules of the house. Versus, you know, recognizing they're an adult.
00:36:43.719 --> 00:37:34.039
But I think I would just think about any other behaviors in the house that you have control over that you can start just saying, You know what? For my own sake, I'm putting my phone here or or turn our house is going to sleep at this time. You're not demanding it, yeah, yeah, but you are modeling it. And then if there are any of those things, like, you can just turn it off in the whole house, or you can, if he comes to you with it being a problem and he's asking for help, then obviously you have lots more realm. But it's like one what's one little thing he can do, you know, like he can set the timer on YouTube, you know. Or he could go in his room and sit quietly in the dark for 15 minutes, you know. And if that's anxiety,
00:37:34.099 --> 00:38:27.139
I just I do wonder, though, with these kids, when they are because I've seen this. I've seen this with my own kids. I've talked to them about it. And I do wonder when kids get get what they call addicted to their devices. I wonder whether it's rather than addiction to the device, it's it's trying to flee something that they're struggling with that it's an emotional stress comfort blanket. It's almost like a pacifier and and that then when they're looking at it, it's then feeding the anxieties they've got. Because obviously on social media, unless you're watching fluffy kittens running around, you, are seeing things that possibly will just keep you in that stress state. So it may be that what she can do is actually ask him a bit more of how are you feeling, and that you need to be on your device, because I really worry about our nervous systems and that they're using them to kind of calm themselves.
00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:53.679
And if, if he's not comfortable sharing that, or he can't reach in and get that out, in that moment, they're having the discussion. It's, you know, encouraging him to write about it, or, you know, and you know, sit and maybe think about what feels good to wind down, you know, and what he can do, just like baby steps to do that.
00:38:48.940 --> 00:39:11.880
But absolutely, can he talk to someone? Can he talk to her? Can he talk to a counselor? But definitely, the brain is taking in that information, just like you said, Rachel about you know, you're already at a stress level. You're trying to distract by watching something else, your brain is processing whatever emotions are on that YouTube.
00:39:12.179 --> 00:40:17.099
And so even if you were to turn it off before you go to sleep, the brain is still processing, especially if it's an emotional driven show, it's still working on that. And so a mom yesterday was talking about, you know, Halloween decorations and how they had gone to see the the neighbor next door, which was kind of scary and zombie like or whatever. And she didn't even think about, oh, it's 630 we're going to bed at seven. And then he was up in the middle of the night with with a nightmare calling for her, and she was like, oh, we need to do that earlier in the day, you know, because he he'd set the stuff up with the neighbor like he was very comfortable with it, but because it was so late in the day, the way the brain was taking it in and processing it, and so, you know, that can. Be affecting that teenager too, and he could just be really tired, you know, because he's not sleeping that well, and so he's just exhausted, and that's all he has the energy to do, you know, the next night and the next night and the next night,
00:40:17.880 --> 00:41:03.900
yeah, and I absolutely love it. And I think what, I think, one of the big things that you've talked about is routine. And when I did a call out to all my listeners, and I said, For you listeners who don't have arguments with your kids about getting into bed or doing your homework or what are you doing, how do you do this? And every single one who wrote to me and said, Oh, it's simple, they all said, I have a routine that everyone in the house follows. And I thought, genius, why don't we do right? I know, and it's hard for people who don't like routine, who struggle with this, but every time I come back to it, I go the routines really, really, really make a difference. If there's one thing that you would like parents to go to take away from this episode, what would you say? What would you like to say to them?
00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:33.619
I would like to say, know how much sleep teenagers need. You know that eight to 10 hour range, and also know that this is the definition of good sleep. Good sleep is quiet, silent, uninterrupted, where it passes through four cycles and REM sleep multiple times all night, and you wake up feeling refreshed and ready for the day.
00:41:34.880 --> 00:42:15.840
And the reason I say that I feel like we are not told as parents that snoring is actually a problem, that mouth breathing while sleep is a problem, and then waking up meaning broken sleep cycles. So for example, I had a friend, and he told me that his son was struggling with cutting and some other mental health challenges, and he said it all started. He had gotten a concussion in his sport, and he was recovering from that, and he had asked him if he was sleeping, and he had said yes.
00:42:11.159 --> 00:43:01.260
But months later, when things just kept escalating and escalating, and they started noticing that he was cutting, they learned that he was waking up every 45 minutes all night long. So that's broken sleep cycles. Anything less than five hours is fragmented sleep, and it is not good for our bodies and our brains. So just know it having that knowledge in your back pocket. It's not to scare you, it's to equip you with the science and the information, and then you can use it to get curious about your own unique child and your own family, and use it however helps you the most, and maybe it's just you starting with you?
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:03.119
Yes, yes.
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:09.300
I think I do need to start with me. Jessica, that's absolutely brilliant. I really enjoyed our conversation.
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:14.460
I think it's a vital topic that we don't give enough attention to, and and it's free.
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.579
It's a free fix. It's what I always
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:23.780
say, Whoa, the one thing that could make everything better, and it's actually free.
00:43:23.780 --> 00:43:32.300
It's free. And my goodness, how many things can we say are free anyway? How can people come and find you? If they would like to ask you questions, get some advice.
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:47.320
You can definitely look down and search catching Z's our new better sleep Council podcast. If you'd like to reach out to me, you can find me over on Instagram at sleep happy.
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:47.320
That's a great place to start.
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:51.699
And you can find my website and how to reach out from me there.
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:52.900
Fantastic.
00:43:52.898 --> 00:43:58.239
And I'll put some links on the podcast notes as well. Jessica, thank you so much for giving us your time.
00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:41.358
And if you found this episode useful, please just send it to one other parent, someone at your school, anybody that you know who might benefit from this information. You can rate it by just going on your podcast and giving it five stars. Or you can send reviews in to teenagersuntangled@gmail.com Any questions, any follow up on this problems that you've had, we're always interested. And my website is www.teenagersuntangled.com. And my sub stack, where I have extra follow up things, I will be putting lots of tips from this on the sub stack. That's teenagersuntangled dot sub stack.com, thank you very much for listening. Have a great week. A big hug from me. Bye, bye, bye.
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