Transcript
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Hello and welcome to Teenagers Untangled the audio hug for parents are going through the teenage years.
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And today we have a very special guest. It's Kim McCabe, from writes for girls, and she runs groups with young girls to prepare them for puberty and the ongoing yearrs. Kim, thanks so much for joining us.
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My pleasure.
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Let's talk about what what it is you do?
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How do you set up groups? How does this work?
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So in Rites for Girls, we have a few things that we offer to girls, our main program is working with girls in person when they're in year six, or year seven. So to help them make that transition from primary to secondary school, just also coinciding with them going into and through puberty.
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And we meet monthly for a year.
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And those are for girls who are sort of 10, 11 coming up 12 years old. We also have an online program, which we were we got National Lottery funding for to work with girls between eight and 18. And that's online. And that's a more kind of focused program. It's six weekly sessions. And that obviously, can can be offered to girls anywhere across the world are girls joining together groups.
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We do have a few across the world, actually. But primarily they're across England.
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Well, let's start with why you decided to do this. What was your background?
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Oh, my goodness, the answer to this question comes out differently every single time.
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The thing that pops to my mind today is it was the birth of my daughter, I have three children.
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And the third child was a little girl. And I remember looking down at her and seeing her in my arms and suddenly kind of thinking, I have to change the world. It has to be different for her growing up than it was for me. Because my own teenage years were not easy, really not happy time for me. And I would say I would have to say I probably spent the best part of my 20s and 30s recovering from being a teenage girl. But then of course, you know, I could go back and think well, my mother was one of the first kind of women libbers she happened to be in New York at the time. And, and so I was brought up with a sense of you know, that girls, perhaps aren't getting as good a deal as we deserve. And then there's my grandmother's two really powerful women who, brought their families up in a in a way that was really looking to give their daughters as much of an opportunity in life as their sons at a time when that really wasn't a focus. So we could keep going back down the ancestral line, how where does it come from? It comes from deep within me, I did go to Cambridge University and study Psychology in Child Psychology, women's studies in Criminology. And then I trained as a counselor working with teenagers predominantly.
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And I do remember, I mean, I was barely an adult myself at that time. But I do remember sitting with these young girls or boys, and listening to them for an hour a week. And I could tell that I was really helping. But deep inside me it felt so wrong, because I thought how could these young people be suffering so badly, and that they've got to this stage. And it took a long time for them to progress through the therapeutic process to kind of learn healthier habits and ways of coping with the challenges that their lives were presenting them with. So I remember way back then, in my early 20s, promising myself that I tried to find a way of working preventatively. So we actually gave two girls what they needed before they ran into difficulties.
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I love that. And it's so true because we see girls going up into secondary school. And one of the things that a lot of parents say to me is that they're seeing girls having problems with friendships, and the friendship groups tend to be the big issue, what are your thoughts about that?
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It is a time when many girls are going into puberty, and their hormones are changing. And they along with that comes the brain development which gives them a greater self consciousness, a greater self awareness. But this is still with quite an immature person. I mean, 10, 11 years old, they're starting to feel their feelings much more intensely, without necessarily having the tools and the techniques for how to manage that. Many women still don't, but also with that self consciousness comes a sudden awareness of difference and of you know, dressing the right way looking the right way, behaving in the right way Who,, what group do you belong to? So all of that all of those things around the friendship groups become more intense. And inevitably with a change in school it does mix up the friendship groups and a lot of girls become a little bit lost, and in their immature way can sometimes be quite mean to one another as they're all struggling to try and find their feet and figure out who they are and who they want to be.
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That's so true. And that's the big thing. I mean, we've seen it in Mean Girls - the film - we've seen, I've read about it in Queen Bees and Wannabes. And we talked about it in one of our earlier episodes. So what are you doing that changes that?
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Well, what we want to give girls is an experience of good friendship, so they know what it is they're looking for. So how do we do that? Well, whether it's in our online program, girls net, or more, especially in our in person program, girls journeying together, where we're meeting with the girls, initially, for a year and beyond, because we carry on, once the group is formed, we continue to support them right the way through their teens. But in those groups, what we create is a culture where everybody belongs just exactly as they are, they don't need to change anything about themselves to fit in. And for that to work, what they have to learn is to accept each other's differences and not to make each other wrong, which is what we do when we don't feel safe, and we're not quite sure of ourselves. We're looking for the metoo moments that oh, yeah, I'm like them, she's like me, she's okay. And then we turn others who who think differently than we do, or who behave differently or dress differently. We make them wrong.
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And so what we do is we practice not doing that. And so the girls, I actually I remember, I had one girl came up to me at the end of the year. And she crossed her arms, and she scowled at me. And she said, I like girls I never knew I'd like. So I said to her, Okay, how's that? Alright. Now, this was a girl who came to our group, because she was autistic and really struggling with friendships, she was missing a lot of the social cues and wanted desperately to be friends, but often did things or said things that that made friendship difficult, and what she had was not only the experience of being accepted for who she was, but also, she got to like some girls that normally she wouldn't have let herself like. And so what we do is that, first of all, we practice it in our sessions. And then of course, inevitably, as the year goes on, the girls want to meet up socially outside of the girls joining together group. And so they get to take it out into the world, this new way of being together and, and practice it out there. And I would say, I mean, I've been running these groups for over 12 years now.
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And I'm still in touch with some of my first girls who are now in their early 20s, they've graduated from university, or they've already started working, and they're still in touch with me, and they're still in touch with each other. So even though now they're in different parts of the world, doing very different things, and they are very different people, they've made friends for life. And that's essentially what we're hoping to give girls is that experience of what good friendship looks and feels like, so they can spot it and can put their energies into the healthy friendships, and maybe move away from some of the friendships that aren't doing them so much.
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Good.
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That's so interesting, because that's what we talked about in episode 10. This enabling your daughter to look for what it is that makes a good friend, and then try and be that person.
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It's quite hard, though, isn't it? It's great to have this bubble, this wonderful girls journey together group. And then I'm so interested, when you say, well, they've got to come out of that group, obviously, and they socialize in a school environment and, and online and online. There's an awful lot of messages coming back that aren't necessarily positive. How do you deal with things, for example, like weight, because weight is the thing I noticed with teenage girls when they, when they go up to senior school, suddenly weight becomes an issue. And my daughter said to me, we all start suddenly panicking about our weight. But nobody tells us how to do this well; how to kind of manage our weight, because I'm putting on lots of weight, and I want to lose it. And then I use to use terrible techniques. How do you deal with things like that?
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Oh, that's a really big question. And inevitably, it does come up in every girl's group. So for a start, they get the opportunity to talk about it in a group where they're not at such risk to be judged. And there's a real kind of acceptance of different girls' ways. That's something else that really happens in our groups it's not just the mentor, the facilitator who's there as the adult guiding them, but the girls give each other support and tips and guidance. But we actually do because this is such a big issue. We devote one whole session to the question of what is beauty or one who decides?
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And so, we don't start with the question of weight although it is an important one because it's around that age that girls will put on more weight, it's natural, it's part of their bodies maturation, that we become more curvaceous, as their body starts to get into a monthly cycle and prepare to be able to nurture and carry a baby when, when and if a girl chooses to do that. So, actually, the very first session, we talked about what are the changes to expect in puberty and, and so we kind of normalized that, that actually, it's completely normal to put on weight and, and for your body to change. And of course, that feels really unsettling because it's something that you feel completely out of control. And so it would be quite natural to want to kind of try and control that. And we have a conversation about, you know, that actually, whilst it might feel uncomfortable to begin with, you start to become used to it. And oh, my gosh, there are so many different ways in which we tackle this, because I'm now thinking about a time when we, we kind of talk about the habit that people can get to when they're kind of passing a mirror, or they're standing in front of a mirror, and, and how so often we kind of hone in on my hair, and look at that spot.
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And my nose is too big. And it's like, no, stop. What would it be like if we looked at ourselves with kind eyes? And we practice doing it, because it's actually a thing to learn, you know, what does that mean to look at ourselves with kind eyes. And so we practice it. But going back to looking at the idea of beauty, we study and we look at what was considered to be beautiful 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, or 10 years ago, and how it changes so rapidly, even one year ago, is different.
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And then you look at different cultures and different countries, what what one country considers to be beautiful is different from another culture.
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And then we look at social media and Photoshop. And that actually, even the photos that we see of beautiful, so called our ideal woman, Even she even she doesn't look like the picture. Even she is you know; makeup is is put on her and her hair is done. And then the photos are taken in good lighting. And then they get busy digitally and actually make her neck longer, and her eyes wider.
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And change the tone of her skin and all of those things. So that girls we spend a whole session talking about well, okay, so who decides what's beautiful? And what is beauty? Actually, really? And when you think about the people in your life, who is beautiful, who's beautiful to you? And what is it about them that makes them beautiful?
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Yes. And my daughter said just the other day that once you start to get to know somebody, the way they look is so much less important. They know that but it's actually making a conscious understanding rather than something that's just there that they haven't really thought through.
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Well, it's warriors work. This is women's warriors work to for each one of us, we have so many influences and messages, and particularly our young girls who have these, telling us how we should look and how we should be and what we should do to try and look in the particular way that happens to be in fashion at the moment. And so yes, we need to feel that fire in our belly, where we kind of, we stand up for ourselves, because we are who we are, we look how we do.
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We need to fall in love with that. And that is not an easy. I mean, I'm still I'm still working on it. And I'm in my 50s it's a constant thing. So but we begin that work with the girls.
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So it's not actually about how can I? How can I do it better so that I can try and look how it is that is in fashion at the moment. It's more? How can I love what I've got? Yes, how can I actually hone the bits that I really love about myself, my body is really good at climbing trees and doing splits and running fast. And actually, I'm a really good listener. So my heart is one that is really cherished by my friends.
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Absolutely brilliant. Yes. And another thing that happened to me with my teen, I've got four daughters, two of them are bonus daughters. And when the older ones were going through the teenage years, I was much less experienced. And I remember them going through the very full on makeup phase. And thinking I don't understand why they're spending so long putting on so much makeup. And I once read that it was a defense and that once they felt comfortable with who they were, they would take it off, like a mask, they take the mask off and then they can reveal their real self. So starting early presumably gives them a lot more confidence and the sense that they don't need to do that sort of stuff as much.
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Absolutely but we also teach them how to put it on subtly. I love that so that they you know, of course they want to play with makeup because it's one of the big things that they see women doing that girls don't do. So if you want to prove that you're growing up, and it's fun trying on different outfits and doing different stuff with your hair and being creative with your makeup so, so better to learn how to do it in a subtle way.
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And in a way that kind of is less of a mask but more of a kind of image changer, just the same as you might change your top or your shoes. So that they it's not that it's it's banned or frowned on but celebrated.
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But equally at the same time we have the conversations about you know, who do you know who, who spends an hour before school straightening their hair and putting their makeup on and won't leave the house without the face on?
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Interesting. Yes. And the what's what I'm curious about as well as how you deal with things like the power base, because, coming back to the friendship groups and the how they can be mean to each other, they feel really insecure. I always say to my girls, when somebody's excluding them, or making them feel insecure, I just try and find what it is about that person that might be making them want to do that. And I'm curious about when people want to create a group. And this is an issue across the world, it's the way countries work - if you create an enemy, you have something that you can fight against. How do you deal with these power bases? Where if they want to actually unify, they then need to exclude somebody. What do you talk about that at all? In your groups?
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Yes, absolutely. Because if it's happening in the girls lives, then they will bring it to the group. We look at how to how to listen to your own inner voice, and then how to find your voice to speak up when you need to whether it be for yourself or for a friend. And in terms of finding an enemy, what we try to give girls is that experience that actually they're not in competition with each other, I think so many girls groups and and actually groups of women we are we are pitted against each other and we become we become each other's worst enemies. And actually, if we could see each other as our allies, and that actually we can, we can enjoy supporting each other and building each other up and in that also feel the support of others, they have a different experience. So it's not that it's going to stop it all happening out there in the world, but they're just gonna walk away from it. Because it's not interesting, they don't want to be around it, they know that there's something else that's different. And so what we often find is that, perhaps if something's happening, say in the popular group, which can often be a very insecure group of girls, the desire to be part of the popular group, or at least to engage in the activities that the popular group in require you to be engaged in, in order to belong, just becomes less relevant and less appealing.
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Fascinating, if you were going to advise a parent what to do to support their daughter, if they can't access your groups, for example, or if they're just, you know, they're coming up for this stage, what sort of what do you wish they'd know?
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So actually, parents, both fathers and mothers, but for girls, especially the mothers have a really, really powerful role. Are you a good advert for womanhood? Does she look at you and think, ah, that's the kind of woman I want to be? Are you showing her the way for how to be a woman who is authentic and honest and true to herself. And, of course, none of us are, we can't all the time, we're all human beings. But the greatest influence we have is in how we are and how we live our lives, because that shows our daughters far more than anything we could ever tell them. The same is true as fathers actually, how her dad relates to her and relates to you the mother also is a great teacher in how she will expect what she will expect from relationship she has with boys, young men, men in the workplace, romantic relationships if that's what she chooses, that that bar is set by dad interest. And so in our very behavior, is how we teach our children the most. But I also did write my book for all the parents who aren't within reach of a girl's journey together. But I have to say, though, I mean, I have women who, start the journey to my group the day before they pick their daughter up from school on a Friday evening in Cornwall, for example, and drive and take the train across England to come to me in Sussex. It's only once a month and it's for a year, and many people recognize the value of it, and the girls love the journey time. So don't think that a two hour drive is too far. Because actually what the girls tell us is that time on the way to girls journey together. And on the way home is really precious. And actually while the girls meet, so do the mothers meet, we have a mother circle which surrounds the girls circle. And the girls love to know that their moms are meeting at the same time because it makes them feel special and important. And also they can relax a bit because they know they're starting to be a bit tricky. And they love to know that mom's got some support, because those of you who can cook take yourself back to when your child was little, that informals support we all had when we were sitting around the soft play area or at the school gates, that's gone by the preteen years, because the children have places by themselves and they don't need us to hang around. So parents are suddenly facing a whole new phase of parenting. It's a very sensitive, vulnerable, important time and the children call from us different things than they've needed before. And suddenly parents find them find themselves quite isolated. So the mother circle provides the guidance for mothers to support each other. But also know that teens and toddlers have an awful lot in common. They're in that phase where they're changing really rapidly. And they've got that kind of flip flop, you know, no, I can do it myself.
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No, leave me alone Don't leave me and teenagers are the same.
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So if you what you learned parenting your child through the toddler phase, it's similar skills that you're going to be needing in the teenage phase, you just without them chasing you to the loo.
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Well, they still do. But you know, that kind of quality of awareness, the same quality that you need to have not to, to watch out, they didn't put their fingers in the plug sockets or eat the earth out of the pot plant. Now you have to have that same alertness. But the difference being you can't be seen to be watching them. But they need you around in the same way as they did when they were toddlers.
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And I love what you're saying because that's why we set up Teenagers Untangled. It's this sense that you when they're in the toddler years, there's a lot of support networks, it's very, it's like a car crash when it first happens, it's quite scary.
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But you know, there are those support networks. But if you become a teenage parent, or parents of teenagers, and it feels so desolate sometimes. So it's amazing that you're offering that. And I love what you say about the car journey because we talk a lot about connecting with your teenager and how important those conversations are. And often when you're in a sort of environment where you're both trapped. And it just gives them time to talk. And my older daughter always uses the time when I'm taking her back to school, for example, to really unpack something specific that she's that's been bothering her.
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And and it's almost like a therapy session. So you're absolutely right.
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And it's time-bounded, she knows that the journey will end you're not facing each other. But, more than that, actually, I want to talk about something that that fills the whole of the first chapter of my book, which is the mother daughter date. It that's another way of us really influencing I'm going back to that question. You said as parents, how do we really support and influence our children? And it's, it's about making a regular commitment to them. And so many mothers, I know say, Well, I do that. And then so many girls are now saying No, she doesn't. And only difference is, is that we are the keeper of the diaries. So we might have in mind or when I pick her up from whatever, after school activity, we could do something together and then maybe something changes and you don't do it, but you've got it in your mind. Or you do something special from time to time. But the difference in the mother daughter date is that you plan it together. And you put the date in the diary, and it doesn't get changed or postponed easily. And you anticipate it because you're looking forward to it. And then even if it just happens monthly, it becomes something that is out of ordinary life, it's not a time when it's like a date, it's not a time to chill out to talk about the with the damp towel on the bathroom floor. It's a time to enjoy each other's company and to make an effort for each other. So she might you might introduce her to things you love doing. And equally, you need to be willing to do things with her that she loves doing just like you would do on a date. And what that does is it builds establishes a regular thread that not only does she know that she's got this time and place to talk about some difficult things, but maybe she chooses not to at that time, but just having that, that there's nothing like an adult choosing to spend their spare time with you. To make you feel good about yourself. It's one of the most effective ways that we parents can build our children's self esteem. And of course the boys need this to and dads can do it as well as moms.
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And it's fascinating because I had a family gathering recently where the all the different generations and what I noticed is it doesn't matter the age of the person of the child. They all want their undivided attention of their parent in a way that's very different to any other relationship. You sort of they're looking for you will love and approval and just to listen to them and understand them. So it's what you're talking about is so powerful I love it. I haven't done a mother daughter date, but I'm going to put them in my diary. What I did was, as soon as they started double digits, I took each individually away for a weekend to tell them that our relationship was going to adjust that we were now going to have a different sense of connection that I was going to sit beside them and look out at the world at the problems and try and help them brainstorm them, rather than telling them what to do.
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And my 16 year old has just finished her big set of exams.
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And so we went away together just to just reconnect and spend a bit more time. Kind of, you know, she's a different person.
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That was amazing.
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Actually, it's funny when I finished writing my book, and it was published, and I sent a copy to my mother. She said to me afterwards, she said, I was reading your book, because I thought it would just basically be from start to finish a litany of all the things I did wrong.
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She said, Actually, she said, is it too late? Oh, and I said, What? And she said, Could we go on a mother daughter date? And it's never too late. I love the times I have with my mom. Yeah.
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And actually, because we were hearing from so many girls that it wasn't happening, we we actually designed a mother daughter date diary, which is a thing of great beauty. We work with an artist. And it means that you can not only do you plan the date, but you can record the date. And then the the page that the girls love best is you rate the date. So you actually decide what works.
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You know, what, what do you really love to do together. And then what my daughter and I have is all these books, which are a record of the special times that we've had together. So when she has that moments where she feels like I don't love her, or that, you know, she never you know, I'm I never give her my time she can kind of she looks over and kind of goes Oh, can we do that one again, one of her favorite ones actually. And this is a real love is for me is to go charity shop shopping. And now I hate shopping. So for start, she knows that if I do this with her, I must really love her. And the one rule I brought to it is we only buy one thing each. And we either need to use the thing we buy on our date, or we have to buy something for someone else and give it to them on the date. So what's that that's led to is, oh my gosh, we bought some incredible we didn't even know what we bought this sort of waffle iron maker thing. And then we went to the supermarket and bought the ingredients. And then we came home and cooked the things and it was sort of very impromptu. And I think what she loved about that because I'm, I'm a busy mother. And I feel as if I give my children a lot of my time, because I'm around them a lot. But actually, I don't think they felt that I gave them a lot of their time, my time because it wasn't focused on only them. And it was quite often if it was it was scheduled and planned. So for her to have this unfold in time that was hers. And we ended up doing something that was completely spontaneous was so nourishing and so her. So that just gives you an example of, of the power of it, and, and that it's never too late. I still have to now with my own mom, I love this. I love it. I'm definitely going I want to get one of those books. That sounds amazing. One week before we finish, if we are in a situation where parents, our kids are going to start school in September, or you already have a child a daughter who's gone up to school, let's let's start with a person who is just about as it's going to start school in September, haven't they haven't got time to go on your course.
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What what couple of tips can you give a parent to help them over the summer prepare their daughter for what could be an amazing but very difficult journey and that first year at school?
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That's a great question. So Girls Journey Together is actually open for girls in year seven as well. Because we recognize that that's a that's that's the first year so it's not too late. But looking at how to support your child through the summer, just know for a start that you are the world expert on your child, you've known them their whole life you've you've learned who they are and how they are and what works for them. So you know, intuitively and particularly if you give yourself a little time to think about it, maybe discuss it with other key adults in their lives who also know and love them. What does this child need some child children need planning. So they need to make lists of what they need. And then they maybe need to go on a shopping trip and tick the things off the list so that well in advance. They've got the right bag, the right pencil case, all the things the uniform, the sports kit, for some children, that's what's needed are the children. It's a sense of actually not spending the whole summer saying how do you feel about going to second?
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You know, and not keep asking them because actually this is a summer holidays and yes, they're kind of excited, but also dreading it and they don't want to spend the summer thinking about it. And for them it's more about actually going off and doing other things. But beginning to do some of the things which, which relate to having a little bit more responsibility, maybe it's that, that you take the bus to the school together just to see what that's like. Maybe it's that you meet up with some friends who are also going to be in their class in their new school. Every child is different. Some children do need and want to talk about it. Others, they have different needs. And actually the best person to know what that is, is you perhaps also with your child, but, but be careful not to put too much of that on your child at 10 or 11 years old. What do you need is quite an intense question. It's more a case of, you know, things like, you know, I've been thinking about, about lunches, you know, I mean, I don't know, maybe it's packed, like, what are the sorts of things you fancy for your pack lunch, we'd have some of them over the summer so that you kind of know what it is you'd like to take or whatever it is that your child?
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Yes, yes, I love that. And finally, a sort of emergency pack. We've got a teenager who's now at school, this happened with me, and the friendship group is falling apart, everything's going wrong.
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She's sobbing at night saying I don't want to go into school. I don't I will go into school. But I'm scared. And it's it's horrible. I mean, I said to my daughter, the only thing I know is that relationships change, and this will change. What would you say? How would you help your daughter tackle a really difficult traumatic friendship?
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Blow up?
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Again, it's going to depend on the girl. So a lot of girls do need to talk it through and talk and talk and talk. And what they really don't need is our advice or our fixing it? Yes, yes. So we just need to listen endlessly to that. And then she said, and then this happened, and then and to help them connect with how they feel. So after they've relayed the drama of it to kind of go, oh, that sounds really intense. How did that make you feel? along what what do you wish you'd said, so they start to empower them by getting them to out of the drama of the situation to think but not to try and fix it. So actually, it's often us sitting with the discomfort ourselves of our child's suffering. If it's really, really bad. Actually, as we all know, sometimes we need a break. So I'm going to say something very welcome now. Take a day off school, go go to the seaside play. Just give her a day.
00:32:27.849 --> 00:32:39.700
Yes, I love this. Kim, I absolutely love what you're doing without any reservations.
00:32:35.920 --> 00:33:12.789
I think it's so important. And that's why I wanted you on this program. I haven't, I saw a piece about you in the Sunday Times magazine. Just before I think I started the podcast and thought I have to get on my program. And so much of what you're saying is what we've we've been talking about on our show. So yes, amazing. We've got listeners in well over 130 countries now, for those sorts of people, they can get your book, presumably I don't know where it's published. Can they do anything online with you?
00:33:14.670 --> 00:33:18.029
Yes, I do actually run a parenting course online.
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:35.579
There's a three week live parenting course with me. Or you can just buy the pre recorded version, which is obviously cheaper. My book is published by Robinson. So it is available all over the world.
00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:51.730
So So let's I've got a young daughter, I'd love her to be in a group because I know that you train people to be facilitators, is that is that possible for people who aren't in the UK to learn to be one of these facilitators?
00:33:51.779 --> 00:35:10.440
Yes, we've got girls joining together facilitators in Russia, in Spain, in Bali, in Hong Kong, as well as across England. The for the training of the in person program, the training is in person, so it would involve coming to England for three residential modules. And then the rest of the training you would be you would be running your own girls joining together groups in whatever country you're in. Right. But I do want to say if anyone is listening here, and you've got that feeling that tingly feeling or that feeling in your heart or your belly that saying that's calling you to this work that girls need us, they need more women who aren't their own mothers who can take a very special and pivotal role in their lives to be there for them. And so if you're somewhere abroad, we also do run girls net, which is an online program and the training to become a girls net mentor is also an online program. So the only thing we have to wrestle with there is the timezone difference. So depending on where you are in the country, you train with us online, and you run the groups online. So Oh, that has no boundaries. But I really want to say to you, the girls need more women, not just your own children, all of us, we have other girls in our lives.
00:35:10.619 --> 00:36:01.800
And if you notice that a girl seems to be struggling or suffering in some way, we've we've got this modern taboo of interfering with other children's lives, drop it, the girls need a whole village, they need lots of women. And if you have a sense of a sense of affinity, maybe because you see something in a girl that reminds you of yourself, reach out to her, who is an adult hasn't, doesn't have a memory of someone in our past who said something or took a part in our lives that was really important and helped us to become who we are. And we each have a part to play in the lives of girls, because they, they're our next generation, that there many of them are going to be mothers of the next generation, elders, and, and and the leaders of our future. So we all have a part to play in being there for the girls just to make growing up for girls better supported, kinder, and happier.
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:18.838
And I think one of the things we do wrong as adults is we sort of assume they'll come to us. But actually, what I found is that it's up to us to open up to them, welcome them into our lives and our arms and say, I'm here for you. Anything you want.
00:36:19.228 --> 00:36:38.639
Judgment free. Let's talk about it. Yes, Kim, where can people find you? I'm going to put a link to all your details on my website. So people can go through that and get your background. But if people want to come to buy your book or to see what what you're offering, where would they find you.
00:36:39.389 --> 00:36:55.807
So the book is available in good book shops and also online. To find out about everything else that we're doing, it writes for girls, our website addresses ritesforgirls.com rites is spelled r i t e s, as in rites of passage rights for girls.com.
00:36:55.875 --> 00:37:21.239
And there you'll find tabs along the top. If you're looking for girls groups, you can find you can sign your daughter up for girls net group online, or you can go to the girls journey together page and scroll down to the map and see find out where your nearest group is. If you're interested in the parenting courses, then go to the shop and you'll find those in there. Fantastic.
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:26.190
Kim, thank you so much for being with us. I really enjoyed this discussion. Thank you
