Presents: Why is my teen so ungrateful?

As parents, it's important to press that pause button when we can so we can spend time with our families, and that's exactly what Susie and I are doing. So instead of a new episode, here's an old one that's perfect for this time of year. But don't forget to follow us so you won't miss our new episodes on gambling, older daughter syndrome, how to set boundaries, and whether shame is a good motivator. Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to Teenagers Untangle, the audio hug, where we use research by experts and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.

Hi, I'm Susie Asley, mindfulness coach, mindfulness therapist, and musician. And mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins.

As a parenting coach, I've seen the transformative power of listening to how other parents work. We can feel supported, get fresh ideas, and even if we disagree, it helps us to think more clearly about the way we parent and why. So welcome, pull up a chair and let's begin. In this episode, we have a terrific subject suggested by our regular listener, Frankie. She wanted us to talk about giving presents to teenagers at Christmas and how to cope with a lack of gratitude. But first, Susie, what have you learnt this week?

Oh, lots. But my nugget, I think, is the way I operate with with my kids and with all my relationships actually, is that um if I have a falling out or a discussion or a disagreement, then once we're done, we're done. Like I'll revisit it if it's not done. But if it's done, I I I do not hold grudges, I it's gone. So you never go back over this again a week, a year later. No, unless it's necessary, unless there's there's something unfinished in it, but it's not like uh I would never bring it up as a sort of resentment or a festering thing. Uh it once it's gone, it's gone. Um and I realize that my kids have picked up on that, which is really lovely. So I had a quite a large falling out with uh my eldest, um, which is fine. We're human beings, that happens. We texted a bit afterwards and that was fine. But when I came home later in the day and he was there already, it was fine. Um he was like, Oh hi mom, how you doing? Um, and not in a shoving it under the carpet kind of way, but just you know, we've moved on, um, which was really lovely to experience. We then talked about the actual issue later, which he was not super enthusiastic about, but but did. Um, and we we spent about four minutes discussing it, um, sorted it out, and then we moved on, and we don't we don't hold things, and it's just nice to experience that that has passed through.

I love that, and I think it's so so important, it's a rule in our house as well, and I think they're more likely to engage in unpicking what went wrong in a specific scenario if they know that once you've unpicked it and everybody's had a conversation about it, then you will move on. I think having to revisit things, you know, once they've happened a year later, it's just no one's ever going to grow, they're just going to feel stuck.

No, and there's a difference, I think, between you know, bringing something up again because it's unfinished, or there's a a loose thread in it that's come to light, and you you can bring it back in that way, or I just want to explore that, that didn't make sense, or I want to just revisit that, that's fine. But to you know, chuck stuff back at people, oh you did that last time, or um, or to sulk about it or hold grudges or you know, you know, sulk for a couple of days because you've fallen out. I I I hate that. And we don't have that, which is really nice to experience.

Yes. Well, for personally for me, I were this last week or two, I've been thinking about my own upbringing um because I've been helping my sister, and it reminded me of a decision I made with my kids when they were quite young, which is that if they have a little bit of a tantrum or they get upset about some decision I've made, or anything like that, and they're exhibiting explosive behavior or stomping upstairs, crying, all that sort of stuff, there's a tendency to want to go and calm them down. But what I do is I just leave them, and I have one child who's much more explosive than the other, but I just say, you know what, you you're I'm letting you go off and do your thing. And I have been explicit about that, but I found it's really effective because what happens is sometimes they're going to sort of be in their room sobbing and screaming and you know, and and waiting for me to come up. And if I let it all pass, then they'll eventually they'll come down and we can re-engage. And I feel like it's really important not to encourage that sort of behaviour because all you do is you teach them that it's effective, it's effective at getting noticed. Uh, I mentioned this to my kids the other day, and they said, Oh yes, we used to do that. You know, both of them said, I've done that, I've done that. And then I sat upstairs crying, and then I could hear you downstairs, and people were talking, and I thought, actually, this is really boring, I don't want to be here. And then they came down and joined in, and nothing was said about it unless they wanted to bring it up. And they just discovered that that bad behaviour was not going to work.

Yeah, I guess it that I love that. And I guess it depends on you know the reason for the tantrum, doesn't it? So sometimes, you know, the co-regulations sit. I remember my my kids have had, you know, where they've really been very upset about something, and I remember just saying, I'm just gonna sit here while while you are while you are having whatever you're having, and then they calm down within that. But if the if they're doing it because that they're trying to connect, then teaching them to connect in a different way is yeah, it's just about rewarding other behaviours.

Anyway, it's just the way that we work and it seems to work for us. So um, we've had another review on Apple. Formula Cosine 38 said, absolutely love this. You are so great to listen to. It's like spending time with knowledgeable friends. Oh, thank you. That's really lovely. It's so lovely to get feedback. I feel slightly intimidated. Is that trigonometry? Formula cosine. I have no idea. I'm I'm very, I'm very glad we've got very bright. I do cars, actually, formula something. Yeah, no, no, I think it's formula cosine. Anyway, um, I know it's really hard to find a place to put the reviews, but when we get them, we really can help other people to find us. So, and and obviously it makes us jump around for joy. So, yeah, please do that. If you are listening to the programme, you like it, let other people know, review us. Thank you. Right now, uh, teenagers and Christmas. Ooh. The thing about teenagers and Christmas is that up until the teenage years, we tend to make it this kind of special time when Father Christmas is gonna come, and it's you know, that that there's a tendency to do that, and then the teenage years, it's all sort of fallen a bit flat, hasn't it? And I wonder, I wonder whether teenagers then they say, Well, it's just about presents, then isn't it? You know, all that magic has gone and they're a bit disheartened about it. And so I wonder the extent to which we need to recognise that in ourselves, that there's going to be a side of them that feels let down.

Yeah, because it's it's um, you know, it's the the magic is fun, isn't it? And when that's not there, it's missing. But I think we can we can tweak it so that it's still magical, but just in a different way. And it's all about setting expectations, isn't it?

Yes, and so this gratitude. Um, I looked it up because it you know it infuses religious, cultural, and scholarly traditions. Uh, it gone goes back to Cicero, you've got it in the Bible, um, all sorts of religions will talk about gratitude. The question is, what is it? I read a paper from the Greater Good Science Centre of UC Barclay on gratitude. It's really long and quite confusing, and actually, even at the end of it, I thought, wow, this is massive, and and no one seems to really have an exact handle on it. But there are a number of factors that can influence how much gratitude a person feels in a certain situation. So, number one, it includes what you think of the giver's intention. So, was the person who was giving you something acting out a pure altruism, or was it because of selfish motives? Like, are they trying to improve their reputation? Right? Number two, what was the cost to the person who's giving you the gift? Number three, what's the gift worth to you or me, the recipient recipient? Number four, whether the gift or favour was provided by choice or was this an obligation?

Very interesting.

And then finally, one of the studies that in fact several studies have found that girls and women tend to report feeling more grateful than boys and men. Okay. And they speculate that it may be because boys and men uh feel more likely to associate gratitude with weakness or indebtedness.

That's interesting. That is interesting. I mean, gratitude's amazing. It's so it's and it it's uh defined in so many different ways, I think, isn't it? Is it a thought-based thing? Is it a feeling? Is it a practice? I mean, it's all of those things, isn't it? And we can't make people be grateful. No. We can't make people feel grateful. We can only model it. Yes. Um, so you can't expect somebody to go, well, you know, I've given you this, now you've got to be grateful. Um it doesn't work like that. No.

Then they're less likely. If you tell someone you need to be grateful, yeah, they're less likely to feel grateful.

And it's not then that's not really gratitude either, is it? It's just that's the reciprocity. That's a that's uh expected exchange relationship.

So that got that brings me on to a Yale assistant professor of psychology, um, Yarrow Dunham, who found that four to eight-year-old kids responded differently when given a gift they thought they'd earned versus one that they was granted out of simple generosity. And he called the earned gift an exchange relationship. The children were happy for the trinket, but they didn't experience the gratitude that might also make them more generous, paying it forward, like generous to others. Yep. Yeah, because that's how he's measuring it. And as parents, we probably don't consider our holiday gifts an exchange relationship because we know the time and money and effort we've put into buying them. But the kids, if they don't realise the extent to which you've thought through, you've had to go shopping, you've you know, struggled over it, then they're not going to see it that way. So for example, you know, you you give a your son a cell phone and he says, and then you say, Well, you need to be grateful for it. And he says, Well, that's what parents do, isn't it?

Yikes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, say seen in that light, that's a logical conclusion to to thinking like that.

And I've seen some parents talking about how um they feel there's a competition between them and the divorced other parent and and it stresses them, and then other people saying, Well, I would just, you know, as long as my kids get everything, I don't really care, just let them get it for them. And it's that's very, very painful because you know, there's a question of you know, someone's here is buying more love than another person, and then I start thinking, What's this all about? Why is Christmas become something? So it's a really strange concept, isn't it? This um, you know, some people are very religious and it has deep meaning, but then there's a transactional thing that comes with Christmas, which is all about buying presents, gifts. I think we need to think about what are we trying to achieve with Christmas and why is all the gift giving compressed to birthdays and Christmas?

Yeah.

Or Easter and Christmas, you know, what are we why what are we thinking here?

It's a really interesting question, a really interesting topic. And in our house it's it's kind of more intense because I have twins who's birthdays on the 20th of December.

Oh that would be really barely flawed. That's exhausting.

What do you do? Well, and then they go to their dads every other year, so it's just kind of like a you know, they get mega presents and then nothing for the rest of the year.

No.

But I don't know, we seem to have settled on it. It it I don't know, it seems to work really well um now, and they've they they have learnt to kind of think about in advance if there's anything they want, anything they need, they're gonna be 15 this year, because they know that it's you know, if they don't think about something that they really want, then they won't get something. And then there's a whole year. Um so actually, my daughter's made a PowerPoint presentation in the last two years, and she's she goes to great pains. She's gonna be a world leader that she's amazing, yeah. She's go she goes to great pains, you know, every other page of it saying these are just my wishes and ideas, you really don't have to buy them. They're just ideas, there's so many of them you don't have to buy. Um, so they kind of get the they've get the idea, and I think we've always talked about it, you know, you can ask for whatever you want. Put it down, put it down, and I completely get that you love these things. We talked about this when we were talking about entitled teams. You might not get it, but I so get that you want all those things so that they can dream big, but you know, they're also realistic. They don't they're really actually appreciative for what they do.

Yes, and those those I hope she keeps those um powerpoints because it'll be well the great thing is she'll be she can look back in ten years and say that was really important to me then. It's sweet, isn't it? It's so funny, all these different face creams that I didn't even know existed. So we need to think about how we feel about present giving, yeah, and how we choose the presents, how much time we spend on them. And when we accuse teenagers, we don't have to accuse, when we feel like the teenager hasn't actually given us any form of gratitude or they've looked disappointed, that's because we feel they owe us something, which is gratitude, and that is not the basis for good present giving because it needs to be about something else.

Yes, yeah.

Why are you giving that present?

Yeah, yeah, no.

And so what can we do? Number one, don't demand gratitude. To feel grateful, one needs to recognise that what's been given comes intentionally, so you've done it on purpose and altruistically. So, you know, you need to kind of not be asking anything in return for it to be an effective gift. So if you're going to give something, it needs to be given without anything expected in return. PN Rainbow uh messaged us and said, Someone once said to me, Why should your kids be grateful for the life you provided? It's their normal. So why should we seek gratitude and get them to thank us when they don't know any different?

Yeah, that's such a good point.

So it's a kind of contextual thing, isn't it?

Yeah, and that's the whole thing as well. You you can't expect somebody to be, you can't make somebody feel grateful. You have to, you have to invite it, you have to model it, you have to make them or you have to help them, help our teenagers to to appreciate the value of things. It's it's coming back to values again. What do you value?

Yes, and I think Frankie, her point was actually that she would like them to appreciate the thought that's gone into the gift, not necessarily being thankful for gif for the gifts, but understanding that they have enough and that they need to understand that what's been given is something special. So I think it's all about um under having our children understand how incredibly lucky they are generally. So we'll come on to that because um I think when the children are when our teens are unhappy in the moment, when you you look at their face and you think, oh, they didn't like it, or um, they're being ungrateful. The thing that you can do is you can point out ungratefulness respectfully. You don't have to say you're being such a brat, or why are you so ungrateful or you know you're so spoilt because that won't make them feel more grateful. And Mandy Silverman, Dr. Mandy Silverman, is a psychologist with the Child Mind Institute, and she says, look, you've got to validate the emotions. Yes. So while they're in the middle of the motion, they can't they can't be grateful. So you you need to say, I I can see that you're not this isn't quite what you were hoping for. So you know, I I know it's an iPhone 8, and you wanted an iPhone 11. Well, they're not iPhone 14s now, aren't they? Okay, so I'd go 11, you wanted an iPhone 14. Um but you know, we can't afford that, or this was some this is what I could get for you. But the great thing is it is an iPhone, and you can still download all those apps and things, but I I get it. I get why you'd want an 11, and maybe when we've got a bit more money or things aren't so difficult, we can look at that.

I think that's a great point, and that that appeals, I mean that relates to everything, doesn't it? Allow them to have the feelings that they're having, because you you know, nobody makes up their feelings, we can't pr produce a feeling. A feeling is a feeling if they're disappointed, they're disappointed. And we can validate that, we can allow them to have it and then help them with it afterwards. And I think a lot of the problem is also again that we the old chestnut that um I bang on about loads is that we hate sitting with discomfort. So when our kids go, I hate the present that you spent, you know, 15 hours researching online and went to wherever to get and blah blah blah, if that's what you choose to do. Um, and you know, we don't like the discomfort of them going, Well, I didn't appreciate that, or I don't like it, or telling them, No, you can't have it because we can't afford it, or I don't think that's an appropriate gift, and then them not going, Oh, thanks, Mum, you're right, you're so sensible. But they always do they always do, yeah. They maybe kick off a bit or they they're upset, you know. We hate that discomfort. We then feel oh, we've let them down, we've disappointed them. Well, no, maybe that's just them learning that they can't have everything, and then being with the discomfort of that and knowing that passes, and which we do now.

And take solace in knowing that it's normal that that might happen and help them to understand the why they feel that way and how that doesn't really help them to feel that, that actually there are other ways that they can look at this. Yeah. Um, and maybe when we're thinking about present giving, rather than perhaps thinking spending all that time and looking for things, you know, you've got a great one, which I do as well, is just basically what do they want? And get them that. You know, I've had people say to me, What would you like? And I say, and I give them, I say I'd like a mug, and then they don't get the mug that I want. And it doesn't have to be, you know, and you think, Well, what why did you bother asking me? Um, so actually, the the the thing is rather than spending so much energy and things on trying to find the better thing for that person, why not just go for what what it is that they want? If it's going to be that sort of relationship, like it's about giving them something they want. And teach them the joy of giving. And for things like the Christmas box that uh for for children in other countries, any of that sort of stuff where you give them a budget and say, right, you've got to spend that budget. How are you going to do that for someone your age? What what is what would be appropriate? That's beautiful. Um, and on that note, I bang on about this nearly every single episode, but personally, the massive game changer in my household has been given my teenagers an allowance. And it's not that they weren't grateful before because they've always been quite grateful, because I think um I made the big mistakes when I they were younger, I bought too many things, I made Christmas all about you know, it had to be perfect, I had to have the perfect meal, and and then I thought I'm not enjoying this because it's really stressful. And I just scaled everything back. So now Christmas is about one bigger gift for the kids. Adults, we give each other max 20 quid 20 pound gift, and then they get little things in their stockings, and even the meal's been scaled back so that it's just a fun meal we all prepare together, and the whole emphasis is on new games that we get and um watching TV together, hugging, just messing around together, and is there's it's a day when there's literally no fixed, forced anything, we can just be ourselves, yeah. So we've we've completely changed the emphasis, but coming back to that allowance, it's been incredible because what happens is included in the allowance money they have is what I tottered up for them giving a friend a present, and so I thought how many friends might they actually literally really have? So I don't know, let's say five real friends, six real friends, and then how much would I be spending on each of those friends on their birthday? Because I used to have to do that, and then I thought I didn't want to do that, it should be their job, it's their friend. So I put that into the allowance and and I told them when I set out the allowance, I was very explicit and said, now it's your job to get your friends' presents. Oh my goodness, what a difference that's made because they're now very careful when they go out and spend money on presents, they're very careful to find a present that would be suitable for the friend. They think very hard about whether they like the friend that much. Um but also it's meant that when they're thinking about my present shopping, they totally get it. Yeah, they have seen how much time it takes, how um expensive it is because they see the money going out of their own allowance and they understand. So they're our values and our feelings about gift giving have have we're now on the same side of the fence. Yeah, that's really beautiful. So it's very powerful. Yeah, yeah. And the other thing about it is I feel like we ring fence Christmas and birthdays, and that's the time you give presents, and I find that very, very weird. It's I don't really understand all within five days. Yeah, exactly. I I don't really understand this concept at all. So what I've done is I scale back the whole Christmas thing, but I actually occasionally during the year I'll see that they really like something, and I'll say, you know what, I'll get that's that'll just be a little gift for you, or just just random gifts or random acts, things we do together where they're not expecting it. And then again, that's expectation. Yes, and then they just go, Oh, that's amazing. And that means that it's you know it's a

Different relationship we've developed as a result. Yeah, that's really lovely because then if you have no expectations, then it's really a beautiful thing, isn't it? Exactly. And maybe one thing that's worth we've I think we've spoken about it before, one but with Christmas and gifts, worth worth just having a think about is that language of love thing where some people their language of love is gifts. So for them, giving gristmas presents and and receiving gift receiving presents is a really big deal. So um for those aren't familiar with it, what is it? This uh language of love is how you express your love, and we we you know we have a bit of all of them, but we tend to have a tendency, and one of them is gifts, one of them is time spent, what the other's uh physical touch, words of affirmation, things that you do for other people, yeah. Uh so like chores or things that you help with. So if if um if gifts is your language of love or your child's language of love and isn't yours, then it's really helpful to have that awareness that actually maybe it it means more to them or more to you, which is maybe why it's really important for you to be thanked or whatever.

I love having that awareness is is is really helps connection and having that conversation and saying I think that for you this is very much more meaningful than it is for me, for example. The question is, are your teenagers relating gifts you give them to your love for them? Are they is that the connection? Are they actually saying that unless I get this quality of gift, I'm not being shown love? So you can move that, shift that by giving them uh time or giving them other things that that are more meaningful. The Cornell psychology professor Tom Gilovich uh said that actually asking children to be grateful for gifts is sending the wrong message. He says people are much more likely to be grateful for experiences than material possessions, which is a good tip, guys. So we need to think about other things we could be doing rather than just giving them a gift. So I remember as a teenager, I I actually what was much more important to me is I I just would have liked somebody to play cards with me. Yes. And nobody did. So for me, you know, that's why so with my kids, I say to them, you know, me sitting down and playing a game with you is really meaningful because I'm giving you my time. And all they want is a new hoodie. No, well actually, no, funny enough, that we all we all it we all agree that actually spending time together is is a m because we're all so busy. Yeah, it's be so and that's you know, for my kids, if they're feeling a bit down or something, I'll just say, let's have a game of Perudo.

It's five minutes, and we all end up laughing. It's really lovely, and it's just time, yeah, time and effort put in like for years I did and and slightly weirdly maybe, but we have I I've mixed the traditions of Denmark and England and then put my own in and their own and all of that. And we have elves in the loft, which is a Danish thing, but it's brilliant and like funny games and stuff every day, which again by you know the 19th of December I was just coming. But it's not like elf on the shelf, it's slightly different because you never see them and it's all a bit magical and really fun. And you have to go up into the loft and give them porridge and rice pudding and stuff. And then but I would paint them little elves every day, as the the elves were making them. Which is kind of way to do that. And now they're older, they are pretty sure that it's no, there are no elves in the loft. But now they're older, it's really interesting. They really kind of look back and they can see that that was a lot of effort I put in, and it's really lovely. So so last year we had um I said we're not gonna really do the elves, are we? Because it's like not the same if no one's really believing in it. What do we think, guys? And so they kind of slightly took it in turns to do the jokes. And my eldest who'd always who he I think he was six when he realised it was me. Um, he started doing the tricks and doing the things, and it's just really like a beautiful tradition. It's effort put in, and it's the fun, it's the connection you have, you know. None of that's worth any value, like present-wise, but I think that's probably something they'll do with their kids.

And it's something that bonds you together as a family, it's a special family. So it's about trying to create family traditions rather than it being about a present. Yes.

Yeah, we I mean we still discuss the time that I put vinegar as apple juice and Elias, like the twins that tried it, and knew what it was, and he took a massive gulp. That is one of our ma biggest, you know, Christmas traditions. Not what pre no one can remember what presents they got that year.

Well, that's exactly the point. That's exactly the the the what we're trying to get to, the nub of this, isn't it? And helping our teenagers notice the kindness others have shown them is a critical one. So we tend to notice negative emotions more, which you point out all the time. And we need to help our teenagers feel grateful by pointing out when things are done for them or things go well for them. So my daughter was lent a dress for a party, and uh instead of having to buy one, and I was a little bit scared that maybe the dress wouldn't turn up, but no, it turned up, and I just said to her, My goodness, what a friend to to lend you her dress for a party. So I think we need to always underline when good things are happening and when people doing things, even for example, you say, Well, why should your child, your teenager, thank you for anything really? Because you're a parent, you know, your job is to m make Christmas, you know, your job is to well, maybe the thing, the way to teach them is to thank them when they do the chores that they're supposed to do. And you might say, Well, why should I thank them? Well, why should your kids thank you for what they think you should be doing?

Mirror it. I mean it's a classic, isn't it? If you if you're missing something, if you're missing a a particular way of being in your life, um, so in this example it might be gratitude, then are you doing it? Are you modelling that? Are you showing great gratitude? And then then you'll send that that ripple out and they will pick up on it and they will just do it. Yeah, absolutely. So whatever you're missing, do it. Don't ask for it, do it.

Yes, and in the in the in a restaurant, you know, w when somebody's coming around and clearing your yard or something, it doesn't matter that you're paying them, you just say thank you so much. Just uh show that gratitude so your kids can actually hear it and and notice when other people are doing things a little bit over and above what's required.

Yeah, and we don't have to be like weird and Pollyanna about it, like everything's amazing and everyone's so lovely, because that would be really nauseating, but just when it matters, yeah. Yeah.

Um and if your if your schedule's overcrowded, your kids are stressed, you know, and you're using money to try and make them feel more loved, just notice that and notice and think, how can I how can I switch that slightly? And you know, if you're a grandparent and you don't get much time with them and you really want them to see how much you love them, um, once again, asking them specifically what is it that would really make you happy that isn't going to cost me thousands of pounds, and you know, and say an event would also be you know something we could do something together because quite often they don't have adults who have think time for them.

Yeah, yeah, nice. And at the end of the day, when we practice gratitude, because it is a practice, it's a way of being, it's a choice that we make, and we can kind of emphasize it or not emphasise it. We can have a journal, a gratitude journal, we can think of things we're grateful for before we go to bed, and when we do that and we embody it, it releases the same chemicals that are in antidepressants.

So free drugs for these guys, and also just if they can actually spend time with people who aren't as fortunate as this, you know, rather than being in a bubble, yes, um, realizing, and you I've had my kids come home and say, Oh, you know, such and such has got this amazing, they've got this, that, and the other. And my wonderful friend Jen has always said, Yeah, we should be so so happy for them. Good for them. Yeah, anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, yeah, yeah, but we learn from contrast, don't we? We do learn from contrast.

Yeah.

So, do you have some great examples of how you've helped your teen develop gratitude? What do you do in your home when it comes to Christmas giving? You know, this is a massive topic. You know, how do you when do you open the presence labor? Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, we'd love to hear your experiences. If you've enjoyed this episode, then why not help other parents? Tell them, subscribe to our podcast, and it would be a massive bonus if you could leave a review. You can also sign up to receive all the latest at our own website, which is www.teenagersuntangled.com. On there you'll find blog reviews, links to every episode, and easy ways to connect with us both.

Now Susie has her own website which is www.mindfullife.co dot uk. Fantastic. That's it for now. Goodbye. Goodbye for now.