Failing to Launch: No Job, No Plan, Still at Home, NEET? Help Your Young Adult Move On

What can we do when our child technically reaches adulthood but doesn't seem ready or willing to actually become an adult? I ask because I've had quite a few questions from parents who are not sure how to manage this next stage where things don't seem to be moving forward. Some are struggling to find a job, drifting in and out of education, living at home with no obvious plan, or relying on their parents for things they assumed they'd eventually be able to manage themselves. Even if you're starting out between years, you're going to want to hear this because we spend so much time worrying about how our teenagers are doing right now, but ultimately we're trying to prepare them for something much bigger, a life they can manage without us. Now you're listening to Teenagers Untangle, the audio hug that helps us parents of tweens and teens to fear less and wonder more. I'm Rachel Richards, former BBC journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. And to help us with our question today, I'm joined by Thomas Miller, a licensed clinical social worker, family

What “Failing to Launch” Means

therapist who specializes in young adults working with families who are navigating anxiety, addiction, neurodiversity, and failure to launch. Thomas, welcome to Teenagers Untangled.

So happy to be here. What uh what an honor to help parents with the freaking hardest job in the world. And uh I love the the audio hug you said. That was really that's such a nice uh way of framing the pod. I love it.

It comes from uh people saying to me that that's how they felt when they listened to the podcast. And I thought, okay, well, let's call it that.

Yeah.

So the question I'd like to start with is when people talk about failure to launch, what do they actually mean? And how can a parent tell the difference between a young adult who's genuinely struggling and one who's just taking a bit longer to find their feet?

It's such a good question. It's so funny. I've been on a bazillion pods and no one's ever asked me that question, even though like I'm an expert on failing to launch. Yeah, it's uh so I think I I use the word like stalled a lot, failing to launch. I I like failing versus failure, right? Um, because it's not over. Um, I think uh someone who is trying to find their feet, let's say, would obviously have a few things that maybe a failing to launch young adult wouldn't. So I talk a lot to families about hey, we know someone's doing pretty well if they are functional, let's say on lifestyle, if they are occupational, um, if they are social and or relational. So if someone is isolating, doesn't have a job, the obvious one, of course, would be substances. They're definitely not occupational. They're most likely, if they're isolating, not relational. They're definitely not social and they're certainly not purposeful, which doesn't end with an AL, but ends with a UL. So we we really want to look at can this person laugh? Can they love? Can they work and can they play? Right. If you could do those things, you're doing pretty good, even if you don't love your job. Let's say you have a part-time job as a young adult and you're kind of floundering, maybe to figure out what the heck do you want to do, or maybe you have some healthy friends, still don't have it all figured out, but you have a healthy peer group, you might dabble, uh, a young adult could potentially smoke cannabis, let's say once a week, twice a week. If a young adult is obviously smoking cannabis four times a day, if a young adult is clearly struggling with mental health issues and isolating, avoiding, not doing anything on the wellness side as well, um, those that would be failing to launch. There's a big difference in terms of even the family's experience from a stress standpoint as well, right? That family that has the young adult floundering is probably concerned, but maybe they're not living every day on an emotional roller coaster. Maybe they're not wearing 82 hats in a compensatory fashion for that young adult. So th that would be my my quick answer there. Yes.

I think

How Family Patterns Shape the Struggle

I think that's a brilliant answer. I absolutely love that. And that's given us some really clear ways to distinguish between the different issues you might be seeing. And let's say you've got somebody who has they they're not working, they're not studying, and they seem to have lost motivation. What usually has happened before they arrive in your office?

So I work, just to be clear, I work with the family. What's happened for them a whole bunch of things. So one of the things that's again another very obvious but great question, because the first peak of the Four Peaks Parents Program, the program that I've built, is called the family audit, which is exactly what you're asking. And I always say the system, right, is really what we're looking to change. If we change the system, we change the outcome. I used to be the family wellness director of an elite addiction treatment center. And we were working on the family, right? Because we know that addiction is a family illness. We know mental health is a family illness. Prior to that, I was a clinical director way back when of a wilderness therapy program for struggling teens, and we had the teen as the identified patient. But I always immediately reaching out to the family because if we don't change the family, right, everything kind of goes back to how it was. So usually prior to that, there were cracks, right? I live in the North Shore of Massachusetts. We got tons of potholes because obviously the winter gets very cold and the water goes in a hole or a crack and then it freezes overnight and expands. And I always think of symptoms in that way, that the family system has provided some cracks that have allowed these symptoms to bloom. So I go in there and help these families immediately audit, right, where are the strengths, where are the weaknesses, where is the system allowing for symptoms to bloom? And so often families have probably felt, if you will, uh, that something was amiss a long time ago, but they sort of made it not known to themselves on some level. Obviously, there's denial there, there's enabling there. So one of the first things I try to do is help families look at what is known to self and what is known to others. So sometimes a young adult may already know to themselves that they have bipolar or they have anxiety, or they are struggling with gambling addiction or porn addiction or substances that may be known to the family, but not known to the young adult, because the young adult obviously is minimizing. So we got to first try to clarify. I always say I'm anti-icebergs. I hate icebergs in families because only 15% is shown. And you think of the Titanic, they were like, yeah, we're just gonna like move left or right and we'll miss this thing, meanwhile, as you know it. The majority of it is underwater. And so these families, if they know that there are certain things and are choosing to keep it submerged, shame on them, right? If there's things out of their hands, no problem, right? We're gonna learn more through the process. But we have to take advantage of what we know and begin to start addressing one condition at a time, how we create a change process that's gonna net a positive outcome for that whole family.

Supporting Without Enabling

I think parents hear a lot about supporting young people with anxiety, depression, ADHD, executive function difficulties, which I didn't know about before I started the podcast. How do we know that we're providing necessary support and when that support has actually turned into what people would call enabling?

Those are great questions. I'm gonna take both of them because the first part is such a brilliant um question or comment about how hard it is, right, for us to realize we've played a role in colluding in something. It's really important that as parents, we're leaders, and if we take our internal temperature and we then go and move to connect, not to shame, not to lamb base, not to judge, not to assume, not to whatever. If we move towards something and go, you know, something's a little funky here, what's up, right? That means that, yeah, we are gonna have to maybe roll up our sleeves and take a look at ourselves. And a lot of families are experiencing the same process that their young adult is experiencing. It's called the parallel process of addiction, or you could add mental health. So if the young adult is increasing tolerance for a drug, let's say, or increasing tolerance for negative uh lifestyle or staying up to three in the morning, the family by proxy is also showing more tolerance for the drug or the staying up to 230 or the smells of cannabis or just the inactivity. If the young adult is experiencing some stigma, some shame, the family is experiencing shame and stigma. If the young adult is being isolated, the family is being isolated. They can't, you know, if someone comes up to them in the supermarket and says, How's Susie? How's you know, whoever, Steve, and they have to now decide to be honest and come forward, right, with that person in the supermarket, or they have to write kind of um blend or minimize the story. Eventually, that young adult is spiritually, emotionally broken, so is that family. So if the family is able to acknowledge that, that, hey, there's a tether here. And while I want my young adult to get out of this whirlpool or cesspool or whatever, toward the bowl, um, I though have to start climbing out. And that's where I come in, is to help the family begin to change how they're relating, how they're communicating, how they're connecting. And there is shame. And your first part of the question is so important that they have to first acknowledge that. And when the families come in, they start working with me, I immediately say to them, You are the winners, because you've chosen today, right, to arrest the situation and to change the ROI of your son, daughter entire life, knowing that whatever the outcome is here, that you played a really amazing role, that you tried to change the entire legacy of your son's life, which is going to impact generationally, right?

And and also some of this behavior that we have at home as parents will have come from our own childhood. 100%.

Yeah.

And to answer your second part, which was what is helpful versus hindering, one of the assignments that families have to do is they have to look at, you know, family of origin issues, how is conflict managed, how was communication, was there intimacy? Could you be emotionally expressive? Were things underground? Was there tons of ostrich-like situations, so on and so forth? And so if we are obviously reacting every five seconds and yelling and screaming and becoming the, you know, the persecutor of our young adult, that's not healthy. If we're becoming the sober police and wearing 82 hats trying to manage, and we have all the weight in our proverbial, you know, invisible backpack and our young adult is carrying none, those would be clear indicators that someone's not helping. So there is some very basic ways that families can make a huge shift. Number one is connect with your young adults, catch them being good, create the open door, if you will, check in, right? Close that distance, express how you are feeling and concerned. Every family I work with has a weekly meeting that either I will facilitate or they will facilitate. Where a lot of times I say, just think of a red stop light. You have a green light, what is an indication of something positive that's going well. What's a yellow light? This is getting a little funky, right? A little worrisome. What's a red light? Um, you can have a different perceptual difference to your young adults' life than they can, give them voice and choice. But at the end of the day, you should be creating some discrepancies between what is their norms versus your own. Already that's a healthier family because they're at least standing shoulder to shoulder looking at a lifestyle, not attacking the person, but looking at the lifestyle habits and what do you have to add or take away, whether that's finding that job or right, um going for the walk, getting out of the off the screen or taking the way of what can and we can't endorse. So there's many ways where families can take some power back without being draconian and top-down, but be bottom-up and invitational. And I coach families exactly on how to create that invitation to change.

When High-Functioning Parents Overfunction

It's interesting, isn't it? Because a lot of the parents that I have been speaking with recently are parents who are really, really high functioning. They're parents who are excellent at what they do, whether it's their career, well, it's mostly their careers. And they find it very stressful if their kids are not dynamic and following some path, even if it's not their path. And I think very often they're overfunctioning. So they see their child flailing and they go in and fix things, whether it's it's getting them an interview when they haven't really even cared to make the effort themselves or just waking them up, organizing them, making appointments, all those sorts of things. What would you say to those parents?

I first would identify with them. I always say to them that you have been meticulous with every aspect of your career. Yet when it came to launching the next generation, not so meticulous. And it's interesting because what usually goes on there is if you think about it, is we all go somewhere when we get stressed. Some people go to substances, some people, right, go obviously to nature, some people go to exercise, some people certainly numb out, right, with TikTok and YouTube and whatever. Some people go to work. And if you think about a SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats, which is an activity that every family does in the first peak of the program, is what they would deem to be their strength. More often than not is them overplaying to a weakness. And it actually can become a threat. And they're missing the moment where they could go and make contact with their young adult.

What do you mean by the way?

I'm saying if that family most likely, unconsciously or consciously has been avoiding addressing the elephant in the living room and now going deeper and deeper into an area of their career where they can succeed and they can control that and they can see marginal gains. And I'm not in any way saying they should stop being successful in their career, but we have to just apply a very similar process. It's one of the things that's amazing to me, and it's obviously because it's an emotional process, not a rational one. I work with so many C-suite leaders and I always say, think about how many times do you write down daily goals? When was the last time you ever wrote what your goal is as a father? When was the last time you even wrote a mission about who you are as a mom? How do I want a mom? Um, when did was the last time you just even wrote a quarterly goal for yourself or your family? We just don't do that. And yet it's the hardest job in the world. And we'll listen to bazillion, you know, leadership books. And and yet we, as parents, just kind of fall into these default modes. So my first response to answer your question would I would have tremendous empathy for this person. There's not a bad person. It's just that in the haste of that cortisol bath that we're all bathing in every day, we went toward again what our proclivity already is. If that person already had a penchant to be successful in their career, and they're probably amazing in many ways, that's where they're going to get pulled. I had a father say the other day in front of his young adult, like, no one at work, you know, acts this way. And I tell people what to do when they do it. I was like, yeah, okay. But for him, he's more transactional than relational. And that shame is just keeping them more often than not and fear from just being curious about what in fact is happening. Can we start with curiosity, take some stock of what is ours to own, what is theirs to own? And it's probably mostly theirs, and create some urgency because you mentioned ADHD earlier in executive functioning. Why would any young adult change if there's no urgency to change? And what the families do, ironically, is by their avoidance, they create pressure, but by their intentionality, they could create urgency. There should be urgent little small micro goals and microhabits and deliverables. And I help families create that for their young adult without being top-down and draconian, even though they cast a big shadow. All my families cast a big shadow, and the young adult is living in that shadow, feeling like the red-haired stepchild, right? But avoidance is not going to get

Building Competence, Confidence, and Dignity

us anywhere.

Yeah. And do you think there's an extent to which some of these young adults end up struggling with adulthood because they haven't really had enough practice at solving those issues? Because I think confidence comes from competence. And if they're not regularly practicing, getting themselves out of difficult situations and their parents frequently rescue them, they're not going to trust themselves and they're going to think in the back of their mind, oh well, my parent will do it for me.

I think a lot of these families, again, in their haste and in their fear of so much of this over-parenting and over-protection is just fear-driven or shame-driven. And so it's easy to throw money at it, to export, to do rather than to sit with and tolerate that push-pull of their own internal difficulty, hence the reason why. The second peak is called emotional mastery, which is where the families I work with have to become the masters of their own emotions. Because those emotions, shame, anxiety, or fear, have often been, as you said, running kind of the store the show. And you're right, they were doing for because it's a heck of a lot easier than waiting, right? Andor teaching andor showing and allowing your young adult to struggle. But in fact, without that struggle to gain those skills and strategies and solutions, that is a threat to the young adult self-esteem. And I always say to the families, you have an opportunity to give your young adult their dignity back. You have robbed it from them.

Oh, I like that.

And now we can give it back, right? It's it's it's a weird gift because it's a painful gift and it's gonna require both people to hold the discomfort of the gift, but there is a beautiful gift in it.

Shame, Status, and Entry-Level Work

I've also seen a lot of parents saying that they're particularly young boys, don't want to go out and get menial jobs because they feel huge shame. Now I know having spoken to Andrew Hampton, who's a former headmaster, he said one of the things that boys fear most is shame. And we're surrounded by social media signalling that wealth is and and status is very, very important. And teenagers are obsessed with status and respect, just by the fact that they're teenagers and and young young adults. And so I don't know how we can get through that stage where a child doesn't yet have the competence to do, you know, a quite a demanding job that's high paid and yet cope with the shame that they may be feeling as a result of the environment that we're going to be growing up in that makes them feel like that's, you know, somehow they failed if they're not doing a job that earns them six figures. How do you tackle that?

We can look at our circle of control and what do we influence and we can shift that. And if that family is truly struggling with the gap you're saying, if they have a child that is constantly status-driven and they are feeling shame, but they don't know how to appropriately feel it in a usable way, that family has to do a much better job because it's not about modeling low expectations, but it's about ownership. My whole thing I say to families all the time is happiness is a fleeting moment. I always say push ownership. My whole thing is ownership. So I was just working with this family where the young adult is going to go into the trades, which I'm so ecstatic where the trades are at, at least in the US. There's a heck of a lot of esteem now to the trades, particularly with AI. So there's like a good PR. But still, um, this family was projecting all kinds of crap. And I was like, wait a minute, like you were pissed off about this drug addiction five seconds ago. What are you doing here? You know? So if a young adult is lacking the ability to try something, and yes, we are projecting something, that's shame on us. If I don't see that that much, to be honest, even though I do work with incredibly successful families, I see these families have been so humbled in a good way that they do want the ownership model and they would be content. Sometimes, yes, they fall into just an old system and they need a reboot and they're not aware of it. Believe it or not, your son or daughter struggles is an opportunity for your family to find a level of intimacy, a level of depth, a level of resiliency, a level of connection you never even saw was possible. That's the opportunity.

So you do an audit, as that's your first peak, and then there's this emotional um sort of undertaking. Yeah, mastery. And then what else do you do you cover?

Third peak is upgrading your toolkit, which is skill-based. So the families learn motivational coaching, which is very different, right, than what they're tend to be doing of either the extremes of avoiding and not being honest and direct, or basically yelling, screaming, persecuting, right? Their young adult is escalating them. And then what happens is after you've yelled and screamed, now you feel guilty and then you lack tenacity to be accountable. So upgrading your toolkit is all about motivational coaching, neurolinguistic programming that's changing again how we speak, match-pace, lead, figuring out how to match, how to pace, then how to lead, how to ostensibly be intentional, what are we choosing right to address? If you have the detached parent, they need to be way more connected. If you have the micromanaging mother or father, how do they allow that child to come to their own right sense of ownership or industry? And then the fourth peak is rewriting your family. Story, which is all about vision boarding and where are we going, and beginning to look at what it would look like if they have a partner, because sometimes I work with single parents, for their partner to get more in the arena. And again, that arena of growth looks different for everyone. And so the families leave with a very clear cultural

Defining Family Values and Boundaries

reboot.

I'm very interested in the question of what are our values? Who are we as a family? And are we explaining that to our kids? Because I've had people write into me and say they're embarrassed about their own culture, but often it's immigrants who don't know how to reconcile the way that they're doing things with the way that things have shifted. And this sort of figuring out what your family culture is, who you are, who are we, and what do we represent, I think can be really important. Have you found that in your work?

100%. And if you go back to what I was saying earlier, how often do we stop and say, let me look at all the things my mom modeled that I want to keep, or what are the things my mom modeled I want to get rid of? How can I be a better dad today, right? Or what could I do that would help me be more relational, less reactive? The same is true with values. One of the things I do all the time with families is to take a look at what is the hill we want to die on. I talk a lot about that, right? I have three clear hills as a father I will die on. My wife and I have struggled. So we come from very different backgrounds, and I'm very much a working class guy, come from a working class family. And so integrity, character, sweat equity, and never ever lying is huge for me. And when we say something and we're not impeccable with our word, it's a lie. That's a huge thing for me. I always say to the families I work with, you definitely have to have a Thor hammer, a regular hammer, a ball peen hammer, right? A Fisher Price. Yes. And most of my families don't have a hammer. I absolutely have a hammer. I even have a hammer on my arm, which is the hammer that my dad uh did everything with, and he died roofing. So it's on my arm in honor of my father. So I have no problem reaching for a hammer or this hammer. Um, and I do that very well most of the time. Sometimes I reach for it too quickly. So, what are those values? And the values are really important to even speak to your young adult during those weekly family meetings. One of the things I say a lot, which is similar to values, I use the word endorse. I say, hey, you know, we love you so much. We just can't endorse this, right? We're open to hearing, you know, this, this, and but this doesn't align with our values, right? So not sure how it's gonna go. And that's kind of how the first meeting begins. No threats, no big things, because so often my families threaten to kick their young adult out, don't do it, teach their young adult, they're not impeccable with their words, right? There's no integrity there. Why would the young adult change, right? No urgency. So, hey, if we can start with values, if we have an understanding of who we are as a family, right? That this is not really lining up. Lying for me, addiction, first thing I think of with addiction is lying, right? Porn, gaming, anything. The moment things are stealthy and underground, right? Think of the antithesis of addiction is right to be out visible. Again, the iceberg up. You're only as sick as your secrets is a great expression from AA. So if we're not lying as a family, no matter what, we are going to remain connected and have an open door policy. That doesn't mean though, we're open to using in our house, right? Because that's changing the culture and robbing emotional safety for everyone. So that doesn't jive. I love your point of value so good that it's almost the air we breathe.

Yes, I had I had to do that. I had to do that with my daughter when she was, she seemed to be going off track and I couldn't work out what was going on. And I actually sat down and and really wrestled with what my values were. And I I've got a whole list that people can use on my substack. You know, how do you work out what your values are? And it was only once I'd done that that I was able to then give it to her and then say, okay, so now I can see what the problem is, because I can see that the values that you are holding are not working with mine, and we somehow have to get through this. And at least then I had a way of talking about it, because otherwise you don't really know what your problem is, do you?

Families don't realize that every family who has a failing to launch young adult has been running a triple marathon either mentally, whether it's in a a way avoidance way, in the f as far away, or an active overdoing, like you mentioned earlier. And to have someone who's now not in the situation, but who can help them look at the situation and be objective and to again slow the fudge down, then we can move out of that cortisol bath and begin to figure out what's next right action.

Practical Ways to Talk With Teenagers

And if you were going to sit in a room with parents who have early teenagers, so we're not young adults yet, what tips would you give them?

I have several families that have teens right now and I love them. From a neuroplasticity standpoint, you have cognitive malleability. You have so much more opportunity here. And so go back to those cracks we talked about and the fact that, you know, when the when the ice gets in there and creates the pothole, you have opportunities now. All right. You're dealing with a tributary, maybe not the river. And so let's begin to change these things now. If you see something, say something, move toward it, be curious, help me understand. I train every family on this technique uh called omen, which is about observe, make a suggestion, give an either or, now blank happens. Every family's, which is from motivational coaching, we do ors, which is open-ended questions, affirming statements, reflections, and summaries. You can have a conversation with a teen in a car where you ask open-ended questions. Even if they tell you some insane crap, there's still something to affirm. Even if they tell you they're they vaked, there's still, believe it or not, something to affirm because their friend's smoking pot or their friend blacked out, or whatever that is. You can then reflect back. How is this working? Go back to your values, or how does this align, or what does this look like? My favorite question to give parents to ask teens is what does addiction look like for you, or what would be too much, or who would need treatment? Those are great questions because they don't even know. And they're constantly normalizing with their peer group. And if they're increasing their use and their peers are, right? Because they never want, as you intimated earlier, feel like the other, they're constantly normalizing what they're doing. So to help create those discrepancies and go, you know, well, what is too much? You know, what what who does go to treatment for when, you know, you have OCD, I know that, but yeah. And then summarizing, hey, this was a great talk. And we were able to actually like talk about some weird funky stuff, and I didn't lose my crap, and you didn't shut down. That was pretty cool. High five us, right? And then you leave. So be proactive and use bedside chats, put your foot up your kids' butts. I hate when parents are like, I'm a soft parent, I'm a tiger mom, I'm a I'm like, what? These these axioms don't work. We have to have situational awareness. Every situation requires a different tact and tone. And be careful. It's almost like

Connection as a Protective Factor

it's funny, isn't it?

Because I see so many kids who they're desperately trying to find their identity, which is the job of a teenager. But we parents do that sometimes ourselves, don't we? We sort of go, Oh, I'm gonna be this kind of parent without really thinking through why we're doing that. And and do we need a label for the type of parenting we are? Why not just kind of adapt to I love your values?

I think you should you should use that like crazy. Values are mission in emotional mastery, the second peak. I talk all the time about unflappability amidst the storm. And how do you hear your own voice amidst all the podcasts, all the coaches, all the books, all the whatever, all the friends, all the experts, all the neighbors, all your family. And so many of my families, nobody knows what the hell they're going through. Nobody knows what it's like to have an autistic child who also has OCD, who also is gluten-free, who's also, you know, it's like what? Yeah, you know, there's no book for that. And and there is a maybe a book, and you take some stuff from it, and you take a bunch from your podcast. Exactly that podcast. And you take some stuff from me. And and then we have to trust. And I always say this to families your good enough beats absent and beats perfect every day of the week. It's a compound effect. We know from the research, I've been doing this since 99 in college, and the greatest protective factor against every risk factor in the world is a secure, healthy relationship with a trusted adult that beats everything. Beats everything.

That's

What Helps Families Make Progress

exactly what I've heard from every expert I've spoken to. So I'm 100% behind you. And finally, before you go, what do you think separates the families who actually manage to turn things around relatively quickly from the ones who just really struggle?

Well, I think the families that lean into this are the winners. That family has courage, that family is feeling shame, and they're doing it anyway. So it's this idea of they have greater emotional bandwidth because they're at least feeling and doing simultaneously, which actually is inoculating them against the power of the fear, the shame, the anxiety in the future. And those other families that are not taking a step and have concrete boots on, it is a hell of a lot harder to take it down once those symptoms and issues have metastasized down the line.

Yeah, brilliant. Thomas, what a fascinating conversation. This is something that's been um bubbling away in the background. And I kept thinking I need someone who I can talk to about this because I have so many parents who email in about this particular issue. If people would like to contact you, obviously I'll put the links in the podcast notes and on my website. What's the best way for them to get hold of you?

Four Peaks Parents. So the number four, and then peaks is in Mountain Peaks, P-E-A-K-S parents. And that folks can sign up for a newsletter there that's free, a free parenting workbook that helps you explore whether or not you have a stalled, let's say, failing to launch, or maybe just a uh struggling to kind of get it together, young adult, um, as well as there's episodes of my podcast. Thank you so much. I'm not kidding, like you're you are an amazing interviewer, and I love the depth of the questions, which really speak deeply to your passion for the subject and your know-how and and heart for helping families just do the hardest job in the world. So it was an honor to be here with you.

That was lovely, lovely. Thank you so much. If you found this helpful, I'm talking to you parents right now, please send it straight away to somebody that might find it helpful too. I know so many parents who they get through the summer, it comes to September, and they say, ah, okay, we we have to do something here because there's a stalled situation. So help people out. This is how my podcast grows. Um, I don't have a marketing budget, all I do is just ask folks to share things. So if it's useful to you, do that right now. And you can contact me with any questions or any suggestions for other episodes on teenagersuntangled at gmail.com. My website is teenagersuntangled.com and my substack is the same, but it's sub dot substack.com. Any help you want, I'm there. So that's it for this week. Thank you very much, and have a big hug for me. Bye bye, tell the