Navigating divorce while raising teens.

Rachel Richards 0:02

Hello and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.

Susie Asli 0:12

Hi there, I'm Suzie Azli, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician, and mother of three teenagers, two of them are twins.

Rachel Richards 0:20

Suzie, you mentioned this as a topic a while ago because you noticed a number of people in your age group were separating yes, there seemed to just be a few in my circles. Today's episode actually came in as a request.

Rachel Richards 0:35

A lady told me that there's someone that is in her family circle who has decided she doesn't want to be married anymore. They have a teenage son who's going into his 16-ish, 16-17-ish and rather than just go for it straight away, they are not going to tell him for two years so that he can get through this final stage of his education and then they're just going to split. And she's told this member of her family and it's a bit awkward for her member of her family because then nobody's. She's not supposed to tell anybody.

Susie Asli 1:15

No.

Rachel Richards 1:15

She's really awkward.

Susie Asli 1:17

It's awkward for her. Yes, and you know there are opinions on what the best thing to do in that situation is. Do you stay together for the sake of the?

Rachel Richards 1:24

teen Do you when you tell that it's all big stuff? So, we'll talk about that. And when I started researching this, I read a headline in the Daily Mail why Teens Are the Ultimate Marriage Request. Oh, my goodness. And this is based on a statistic which is that the average age of divorce is 45 for men and 42 for women. And the writer then extrapolated out and said well, that's when we have teens, so they're marriage wreckers.

Susie Asli 1:54

Amazing research.

Rachel Richards 1:54

Brilliant and I read that such clickbait. Clickbait is where they make you want to read the article because it's so horrified, so ridiculous. The Daily Mail is basically a kind of it's a rag. Anyway, we all know having teenagers is hard, but when I actually looked at the numbers, these people, the biggest spike is in the 20s for marriage breakdown, and it's in the first two years.

Susie Asli 2:19

So that's not when you've got teenagers and it's never to do with your kids. It's not your kids, your relationship and your kids maybe are the catalyst Correct.

Rachel Richards 2:27

So we'll come on to all of that and it's a sprawling topic, but we'll talk about how to spot if you actually should be working on yourself rather than divorcing, because some relationships really don't work and they shouldn't be together, how to go about talking to your kids about it, and the key things that you can do to separate in a way that affects your teenagers as little as possible. Yeah, and I've had some amazing help from listeners. So thank you everyone before we start Right Nuggets, let's do a nugget.

The challenge of new relationships

Susie Asli 2:55

Yeah, my nugget today is so my eldest has gone off to university, so that has lots of things involved in that. For me and for him and the rest of the family it's an interesting time, very positive. It's really exciting for him, really excited for him. So he's not very far away, which also makes a difference psychologically as well, and he had actually forgotten, or not forgotten, there was something he didn't think he'd need and then he did need. So he said, could you bring it up? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, of course, just a pop-up, I'd love to, I'd love to.

Rachel Richards 3:30

It was way to beautiful.

Susie Asli 3:32

It was right at the end of Freshers Week, so it was right at the start and he was busy with Freshers and I said we won't stay, like I won't stay and is it all right if your siblings come? Because they were like, oh, can we come? And if not, that's cool, we'll just like I'll hand it to you over in the car park. If that's, we'll come another time. But he was like no, no, no, it's fine, I am busy, but I've been really nice to see you, just briefly. So we went up. It then turned out that he wasn't busy because he didn't want to go to the event that was on. It was a formal ball, which is not his bag.

Rachel Richards 4:00

So he did not go.

Susie Asli 4:01

So he had a bit more time than he thought. And anyway, long story short, he was sitting having a drink in the cafe and we were mucking about a lot and there was a lot of banter and a lot of like. Oh, it was really fun.

Rachel Richards 4:13

This is with his family.

Susie Asli 4:14

Yeah, and he just kind of he breathed and he went. Oh, it's really nice, I can be as inappropriate as I want. Oh, I love it. And make some bad jokes and it's all good. And you could just see he was enjoying this because he's made friends and it's all going really nicely and it's new and he is really inappropriate normally. Oh, that's hilarious. You know it was really nice for him to be, to be that, and so it's. The reminder was that you know if we can be safe space.

Rachel Richards 4:44

It just felt like a real blessing a real beautiful space and also that it's really hard when you meet new people. So he's made some really lovely friends, but in those early stages you're still kind of scoping each other out and you're a bit scared to say certain things. Just in case you know and I've seen this with all of my kids and I guess they need that- buffer someone to come back to and just oh, and he's an introvert, so he's really good at socializing.

Susie Asli 5:11

He's learned that and he's very good at it now and it's draining.

Rachel Richards 5:15

Yeah, so it was really. It was really lovely, and how lovely that you didn't suffocate him and go. What will come up and we'll just look around your room and meet all your friends.

Minimizing our own pain.

Susie Asli 5:22

Yeah, no, no, yeah, that was nice, lovely.

Rachel Richards 5:27

So for me, mine was about a conversation I had with the most amazing woman. She has teenagers and one of them had quite a dramatic accident. She's had a toxic boss who has meant she has actually left her workplace and the area she lives in. There are there's been a lot of sirens going around, more police presence and I she dropped these things into the conversation as if they were nothing. They just, you know, we were there for quite a while but they just kind of with little little things dropped into the river and I every time I thought, gosh, that sounds much bigger than she's she's saying it is. And she then said that she'd been feeling a bit depressed and bitchy and she's gone on HRT in the hope that it will help.

Rachel Richards 6:19

And, you know, my response was yeah, that's it. You know it might be menopause and it might be really helpful, but have you also noticed how hard your life has been over the last period of time and that maybe that's actually having an impact on you physically? And her response was yeah, well, I can't complain. There are other people who have it way worse than me.

Susie Asli 6:41

That's classic.

Rachel Richards 6:42

Classic response and it's so interesting because there's an amazing book that I highly recommend by Dr Edith Eger, who, which is called the Choice. She survived a concentration camp and witnessed some of the most horrific things, and she talks in it about how there is no measure of suffering. It's not. This person had it way worse than so. My suffering doesn't matter. We all experience things and we all need to acknowledge the impact it's had on us, not so we can wallow in it, but by actually inspecting and saying, wow, that really that's tough. Then we can heal from it and we can move on.

Susie Asli 7:16

She's amazing, she's amazing. And there's another book of Gabon Marte right is the Myth of Normal and these kinds of experiences. You know they're a part of normal life and any reaction to it is a normal response to difficult circumstances, rather than making it either belittling it and ignoring it, or making it into be some sort of massive mental health issue. Absolutely.

Rachel Richards 7:38

Do you have a one of our lovely reviews?

Susie Asli 7:41

I do, which is very lovely. It's called Huge Help as I Learn to Adapt my Parenting to the Teenage Years. I'm so grateful to Rachel and Susie for their research and sage advice. I routinely listen to the podcast and look forward to new episodes, as well as consulting past ones as I face new stages in my teens lives. Thank you for presenting thorough investigation and sharing your experiences in such an engaging and accessible way. Love it, oh, thank you.

Marital break-up

Rachel Richards 8:06

That's really lovely, thank you. It's just. It's so helpful to hear these things because it makes me think okay, we're doing something, we're making a difference. Now are you ready to talk about marriage and divorce? Oh yes, so marriagecom, as I mentioned, that statistic I mentioned earlier on, it's the first two years. That's the most dangerous in terms of divorces, and then it's actually fifth through to eighth years, with the seventh and eighth being the most perilous. That's not when you have teenagers?

Susie Asli 8:32

No, but I wonder there is an uptake, I think, when the teenagers get old and they're more independent, and maybe when they leave home, and then suddenly you, looking at your partner, going, wow, we've, we've, we've drifted apart and there's no need. We don't, we don't have the same interest. I think there was an uptake then as well. I don't know statistics.

Rachel Richards 8:49

I will. The statistics I saw said that after the eighth year it starts to decline. Yeah, all the way up to the 15th year at which point at plateaus and you've just got consistent rates of people divorcing.

Susie Asli 9:01

But you know, again.

Rachel Richards 9:02

this is just, but I agree, I think it's actually when people think, well, we don't need to do this anymore.

Susie Asli 9:08

Yeah, and maybe we were just staying together for the kids and I don't want to spend the next 20 years with you. Yeah, yeah, because our values change and I'm right.

Rachel Richards 9:15

So that can be painful. And coming back to that Daily Mail article, she claims couples argue more about teenage children that at any other station. I can see that because it's quite challenging, you know the thing is teenagers, the problems can be bigger and more taxing. So there is there is this is a claim, and she came up with one example. And it was where this couple were in a shop and they had their 14 year old son and he had his birthday money and she had said why don't you, which I've asked them to go off with the son and he can buy his video game while I just finished the shop?

Rachel Richards 9:52

On no account by Grand Theft Auto, because it's really rapey and violent. It's a prostitute. And what did you come back with Grand Theft Auto and the father said look, all his mates have got it is not such a big deal. And she said look, the one thing I said was don't buy this. And he and it turned into a row and he said well, if you feel that strongly about it, then take it back. And she said, fine, I will. But it turned into a big round. That is not your teenager's fault.

Susie Asli 10:20

No, absolutely nothing to do with the teenager. It's completely their relationship.

Rachel Richards 10:25

I love this thought for God's sake. And my husband. I mentioned it to him and he said oh, if you had told me not to get this, I would walk off, with that ringing in my ears and if I disagreed, I would have had a conversation with you offline at home.

Susie Asli 10:38

That's brilliant journalism, yeah well done you.

Rachel Richards 10:42

Thank you for that example. Dr Karl Picard, harvard train psychologist, said when parents neglect to look after themselves and their marriage, you're much less able to care for your adolescence and the adolescent. The adults can end up blaming the child.

Susie Asli 10:56

Yeah, of course it's not their responsibility. It's not their responsibility. It can absolutely be a catalyst because it's really challenging, but then you can step back and look at the background and what's going on.

Rachel Richards 11:08

And that's absolutely spot on that one, because Teneeth Carey who wrote the article, but actually it has some good suggestions. One of the things she pointed out was spot the proxy battles. Are you feeling irrationally triggered by your partner's parenting? Because actually that might be to do with tensions in your relationship and they're being fought via the children.

Susie Asli 11:29

It's often to do with sort of control issues. When we have teenagers, it's very much about what can feel like, it's very much about control and what are they allowed to do, what are they not allowed to do All of the things that we discuss every time and that can feel very difficult to navigate with somebody else if you're not on the same page or you're already triggered by them.

Rachel Richards 11:51

It just exacerbates everything, yes, and solve your own hangups. Is the thing your teen doing wrong or, in your eyes, wrong actually linked back to treatment you experienced?

Susie Asli 12:05

your childhood self introspection. I'm in my parents sorry and that feels really weird and awkward, but we don't marry our parents and we can think all but my Partners, nothing to like my parent. But there are elements in our partners that we pick that make us feel like we did when we were kids. That's the thing, it's not that they look like them or they are like them, but there's something in them that makes us feel how we did that parent made us feel, and that's what we need to look at yes, no, absolutely.

Rachel Richards 12:38

I think that's completely spot on. I get massively triggered when your parents.

Rachel Richards 12:42

Yes, yeah, really really good point. One of the things is look at the same house have been coming up the last three years, you know. So actually record. You can record your house like what are we rowering over? Is it the same? Always the same thing back in the? Can we fix? Is this a fixable? Is this something we fundamentally just don't agree on? I mean, we deserve everyone in a relationship with the deserves respect. These are human beings we're dealing with. You know whether you've stopped loving your partner. What they, you both, deserve respect.

Susie Asli 13:12

So this kind of curb, your eye rolling and criticism and back biting because it doesn't help anybody, and most relationship problems, like 90% of relationship problems, are to do with communication and how we communicate or how we don't communicate, and so having a look at communication patterns is can be absolutely game changer yes, so, so.

Rachel Richards 13:32

so these are all things that could lead you to going. Well, you know, maybe, maybe we could learn better patterns, or are we actually? What is the foundation our relationship is built on? Because if it's an empty vessel, then it may be that it's time to sort of move on much.

Rachel Richards 13:49

Try and do some of this work before you decide to divorce, because you're still going to be parents together and you're still going to have to talk to each other and you're still going to have to make decisions absolutely and a lot of people, I think you know, think oh great, it's a fix, because it's really difficult and maybe the marriage is over and you know there are a million reasons I'm divorced.

Susie Asli 14:08

You know it's. It's really challenging and really painful and it's very multi layered, but you don't get out of it, it's not like it gets out of jail card because you still have to co parent and that's really challenging. So if you can learn to communicate, that's really helpful.

Rachel Richards 14:24

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that's absolutely key. Like if we can just look at one thing that you could do before you Push the button, is that we just how do we bet?

Susie Asli 14:33

get better at communicating, because we're going to have to do it super, super challenging and I think when you're not going through a divorce, you've never been through divorce. I used to be really smug, you know why can't they just, you know, get on with it for the sake of the kids? So you know it's so awful, and then you're in it and you go oh my goodness, it's super, super challenging and painful.

Rachel Richards 14:53

Yes, so you know it's painful and the pain, for the pain is the heart.

Susie Asli 14:56

It's multi layered. You know you're you're saying goodbye to a family you know, and you know the future and there's so much in it. It's Super, super painful for most people and that's not even including if there's been, you know, betrayal or other issues. So it's not without its challenges, but it's really worth just trying to be as respectful as possible and communicate as cleanly as possible, if you can. Yeah.

Rachel Richards 15:20

And it can trigger an existential crisis where you literally like who am, you know? If I'm not in this marriage and I'm not this person, I'm not this person. What now? Am I? Yes, and it may be that one person feels that way and the other person's like yeah, I can carry on moving this direction is brilliant yes, and that often is the case. It's really hard. So what about staying together for the kids?

Rachel Richards 15:39

Oh no, so my friends actually judgemental about my friends in the short term because they had a similar scenario. So they had actually three kids who are all going through very important exams, and I I spent some time with the wife three of us women together in very intense situation for a few days. I should never mentioned it once, which was amazing. How did you do that? Yeah, and and suddenly they announced it after the exams were over to the world and I just went what, what, what, hang on, what. But they were little signs that had that had made me very confused about their relationship so.

Rachel Richards 16:19

I don't know how it felt on the inside for those kids.

Susie Asli 16:22

No, I think what the problem is, and I and people have to do what feels right for them and if that? Works for them, then of course they do that. So I'm not judging anybody for what the choices they make. I just would be concerned possibly that because teenagers have their antennae out all the time and they need heightened yeah heightened and they need.

Susie Asli 16:42

They need to. What they see and hear and experience has to be in alignment with what they're, you know, with all of it has to all be in alignment and when they are seeing things that aren't in alignment, that confuses their antennae and that goes back onto themselves and they then start to wonder about their own judgment. And everything feels that a bit sort of discumbent.

Rachel Richards 17:17

I love that. That's so important because it's this when you're a teenager, you are trying to work out what you really think of the world and how things work and how your friends working and, and if things are slightly off, yeah, then you just think it's you think it's you. Your judgement, so you could you know, mom and dad saying we're all good we love.

Susie Asli 17:36

And then they see their body language and it's not how they're talking. They'll be like, well, that doesn't match, and they won't be conscious, maybe, of what it is. But that will go in.

Rachel Richards 17:46

Or that you pretend to be getting on really, really well, like, and then as soon as the exams are over, you go wow, and the kid goes wait, wait. And then they'll start thinking well, what else have you?

Susie Asli 17:57

learned about Exactly Well. Who can I trust Right?

Rachel Richards 18:00

So it has its problems.

Susie Asli 18:01

Yeah, it needs to be in alignment. But, it's difficult and you know people do it for all sorts of reasons. So whatever it works, you have to do.

Rachel Richards 18:08

And studies reveal that children who are raised in a two-person loving and stable environment show fewer signs of depression, anxiety and defiant behavior. Who knew, hey, and these children have better academics and develop better capacity for truly intimate relationships, all that stuff. But the reason I'm bringing this up is that children raised in stressful and conflicted marriages are more stressed, have more defiant behavior and more problems than children raised in a stable, divorced or stable single-parent home.

Susie Asli 18:39

Yeah, because they are children fundamentally, are competent in the sense and we talked about this right at the start of the podcast. They're competent in that if something is out of alignment, they make a noise. So they go whoa, hang on. This is a bit weird. What's going on? They don't know it consciously, they probably can't verbalize it. So if they're feeling this mismatch of what's going on, they'll probably play out a bit, because they'll be like whoa, what's going on? I need some attention. I don't quite know why, I just feel it feels funny. So that would possibly be why.

Rachel Richards 19:12

Yeah, brilliant. And Christine Northam, a Relationships Counselor for Relate, says parents who stay together for the children often don't take into account the model they're presenting to their children. We talk about this a lot. These kind of loveless examples can actually hamper children in their adult relationships because they're forming. This is why this teenage years are so important, because they're starting to form an imprint of what is a relationship, what is love, and if what they're living with doesn't really match, it can be very confusing. And also, if people are staying together but they might be having other relationships, then the kids can feel very confused by how this works.

Susie Asli 19:50

I'm sure there are occasions where it does work and it's the best solution, but it's not without its problems. I don't think yeah.

Rachel Richards 19:59

So co-parenting amicably Sorry.

Susie Asli 20:03

After the course Really hard. That's totally possible and hard.

Rachel Richards 20:09

That's the kind of nirvana that everyone would like to have happen, but it can be incredibly difficult, but let's actually let's go back so helping train teenagers through this. So what we need to do is, like, how do we deal with this?

Susie Asli 20:22

How do we?

Rachel Richards 20:22

tell teenagers, right? So we've said, ok, we're going to tell the teenagers and we've decided, and you kind of need to know that and you need to say it together and I've had feedback from a teenager who's helped me this. So I researched and I've had someone explain things. The worst thing you can do is leave them to work it out for themselves. Yes, you do need to like if they see the parents treating each other poorly and then they think well, I think maybe they're going to get divorced.

Susie Asli 20:49

I don't know. I saw my terrifying for them because that's rocking their whole world.

Rachel Richards 20:54

Yes, or I saw my parents treating each other really badly and I was kind of, yeah, come on.

Susie Asli 21:00

When's this happening?

Rachel Richards 21:01

When's this happening? It didn't happen. Why is?

Susie Asli 21:03

it not happening. What's?

Rachel Richards 21:04

wrong with them? Why are they not getting divorced? This is awful, yes, okay, do it together. Do it calmly, explain to them explicitly it's not their fault, and when you explain it to the teenager, you need to be prepared to say you may be feeling all sorts of emotions. Did you understand what we're saying? What are your questions? And you don't have to come up with all the questions now, because they may come in trickles or you may have a question in the middle of something. At any point, I'm happy to talk about it.

Susie Asli 21:38

And it's quite often, when a marriage breaks down, that one person is more upset than the other.

Rachel Richards 21:44

Yes, Not always.

Susie Asli 21:45

Yes, I agree, there's a million varieties of wine and all of the logistics, but so that can be really difficult. If trying to present a face in that place, that's difficult for the teens to watch. But it's what it is, I guess.

Rachel Richards 22:03

But I guess you both have to sit and say okay, the most important thing at this point is our teenagers. Yes, it's just can we get to that space? And that again is the nirvana.

Rachel Richards 22:12

It's not always easy but it was not easy, and the things you want to have ready for that conversation is will they have to move away from friends and school? Yes, the logistics. Are they going to have two homes, one parent? How is this going to work? They're going to want to know this stuff straight away. What about the finances? Does this mean that their allowance is gone? What's happening with Christmas?

Susie Asli 22:33

And with the remembering that, for a teenager, the world revolves around them.

Rachel Richards 22:37

Completely around them. That's completely normal.

Susie Asli 22:39

So they need to know these things actually.

Rachel Richards 22:41

And things like don't put them in the middle right away. So let's say you announce that you're going to do this, Don't say so. Who do you want to stay with this weekend? No no, no, no, no, no. You have to have this stuff solved beforehand and then just present it to them and say we said we thought this weekend you'll do this next weekend, and then we can discuss things Exactly so you need to parent them still this time.

Susie Asli 23:04

And it's possible that they have all sorts of emotional reactions, and we take it all very personally sometimes, don't we? They might be really angry, especially if it's obvious that one person is leaving and the other is staying. They might be really angry with that person and that's like a really natural reaction and we have to be really emotionally mature and take that, or they might be numb shocked. There could be a million reactions.

Rachel Richards 23:30

And it's really more helpful to them to take the position that it's nobody's specific fault, because what I've learned from relationships through my life is that even when one person has an affair, there's other stuff going on in the marriage. It's really important that they start to understand that there's not just one person to blame in anything?

Susie Asli 23:50

No, no, absolutely Really good point. So even if it is one person leaving, or for whatever reason, there's a million reasons as to why the marriage hasn't worked, absolutely Never.

Rachel Richards 23:58

Just one person's fault Absolutely, and one of our listeners made a fantastic point, which is it's probably the first time your kids see you as something more than just being a mum or dad. So I thought gosh, yes, yeah, yes, because now you're a single. It's like you're an atom that is lost in an electron and you're going to be looking around for it. They'll think like that.

Susie Asli 24:20

And they do tend to feel concern. And if one person is moving out, which is often the case, they're going to maybe go from the family home to a tiny little rental bedside somewhere possibly, or something equivalent, and they can feel all sorts of feelings for that worry, concern, feel sorry for them or not. There are a million reasons but a million feelings I mean.

Rachel Richards 24:44

But you know they're thinking these things and just with all sorts of other scenarios, saying to them it's okay, whatever you're feeling, it's okay, you know, this is a normal reaction, it's you know, rather than saying, well, can't you just get over it?

Susie Asli 24:57

or these are, things are very painful, so the ways that you are not and they might not. They might just want to get on with their friends and that's also cool.

Rachel Richards 25:06

Yes, yes, dr Karl Pickhart, harvard trained psychologist, says because divorce catches adolescents, the sort of nineteen to thirteen year olds in the age of detachment. Their common responses are aggressive, pushing against, pulling away from parents trying to exercise control. The older ones are thirteen to eighteen year olds. Send to understand better what the boss is and they kind of want to move on they kind of just like what now what?

Rachel Richards 25:30

what's gonna happen now and who's gonna pick me up tomorrow? Yeah, you can expect, and they want to. Quite often they want to just rely on their friends.

Susie Asli 25:37

They want to go and spend time with friends and that's critical.

Rachel Richards 25:40

So the other thing is, if you are saying right, you spend one weekend here, the next weekend there, don't hog all their time no, they're gonna be like what about my friends? Yeah, that's really.

Susie Asli 25:50

I don't want to have to spend time with my parents just because you separated that's really, really key, actually, because they, they do really need that and we suddenly forget. You suddenly can get a little bit protective of the time we have with our teenagers. It's my time, it's my exactly, and they're like, of course, yeah, but I want to hang out with my mates. It's not relevant to them, you're their base. Yeah, absolutely, and that's tricky if you move away.

Rachel Richards 26:17

Particularly if you move away, particularly if you and, and, and they may go through grief if they have to move, my goodness, if they have to move schools and they have to anything like that. That's disruptive. I mean, and the challenge for divorce parents is this working divorce, what they term a working divorce so.

Rachel Richards 26:33

You can use technology. The amazing thing now, which I'm sure you didn't have, was there are apps now where that you can use, like there's the custody exchange at way it you can go. It takes you through all the steps of creating a plan. What things do you need to think about?

Rachel Richards 26:47

We did not have you did not have that, and that's actually just starting from ground zero, thinking, well, what am I supposed to consider? That can really help, and we do need to. Also, if you're going to separate, you got to accept that the person who Is in the other house, the other parent, is going to have their own rules. Yes, and that's hard because you have that, you and your ex have different rules and you're amazing because you just say well, that's, that's how it works in his house.

Susie Asli 27:14

you can have conversations about it has to be. And you have to pick. You have to get really good at picking your battles.

Rachel Richards 27:20

Depends on the communication, but you can get to the point where you have to let everything go, actually, yeah yeah, questions teens will internalize potentially about divorce, things like how can parents who commit to get married choose not to say married? If the commitment to marriage is made to be broken, then what are the commitments can you trust? Yeah, you know it can shake their sense of what. What does it mean to commit to somebody?

Susie Asli 27:44

And you can. I remember having, because mine were very little when I got divorced. It's very different, but they go through developmental stages where they question everything once more and then it looks a bit different. You have to conversation again and I remember once, when they were younger, you know, does that, you know it, that you can stop loving? You know the parents can stop loving each other. Does that mean you can stop loving?

Susie Asli 28:05

absolutely another one, yes and it's like explaining know, the love I have for you is very different. That's kind of unconditional and that can never be broken.

Rachel Richards 28:13

Yes, this is conditional and it did get broken, and that just explaining that, that's different spot on and you know that actually happened with me, with my little bonus daughter, when she was little and I actually she kept saying you're not going to marry that woman, are you? And I picked up one day and I said what, I put it on my lap and said what we haven't talked about this, you know, we're not talking about marriage. What's the problem? And she said what could if, if he marries you, then he will stop loving me? And it was interesting, because you know this is. These are emotions and thoughts that kids can have. That's what I said to. I said it's impossible. Yeah, daddy can never stop loving you.

Susie Asli 28:52

He's your daddy and also you can begin to teach them about this. What I find is a really beautiful way of looking at the world in general, but love as well Is abundance and scarcity, so that there's not a finite amount of love. So if I give you a portion, that doesn't mean there's only so much left. It's the more love there is, the more love that is, yeah, and the teenagers get that.

Rachel Richards 29:12

Yeah and I love that way. We don't talk about love enough you know the beautiful things about life is too much sort of cynicism and interestingly, I think you know there is a mention for the at the more adult children. So 18 years and up, be careful. Be careful because there is a tendency, says anger. Are the Rudkin, who's a clinical psychologist, that we think they are more capable than they are? We don't ever overestimate their maturity and they can look back and feel like they were living a lie that whole time and also, you know, parents sometimes can lean on them to lean on.

Susie Asli 29:53

You know they still need you as a parent and we tend to think what? They're 18, their adults now, and we can kind of Look see. Now I can tell you these things. Yeah, yeah, I know they will look back and what happened.

Rachel Richards 30:04

They need you to still be their parents, and that's the same with the boundaries. You need to still keep these things in place. You're still their parents, whatever happens. One of the interesting things that I thought it worth mentioning was we have a listener who has lived this way, and also there's a social media couple.

Rachel Richards 30:21

She's called mother pucker, and they have gone through something called nesting now this is only for the wealthy, I'm sure, but what happened with our listener was they started out with a traditional separation and they discovered that the logistics were really difficult because there's this whole moving stuff from one place to the next. All you have to buy Some. You know both things, but it's still difficult and I've seen teenagers talking about you know when they look back having to go from one house to the next and take all this stuff and it's stressful.

Rachel Richards 30:54

So what they did was they actually kept the home and each adult moved out for a week, so one and they got two small flats, beds, sort of things, which is really hard as an adult. But they look back and say we didn't regret it at all. It was really great because we provide a stability for the children, and we were the person people disrupted because we were the people who had made this decision and they said you know things like holidays were treated with flexibility.

Rachel Richards 31:23

they, you know they and they really were comfortable talking about how do we focus on making sure our children's lives work?

Susie Asli 31:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. If you can make that work, it's amazing. I'm sure there are real problems with it. You know it sounds really challenging.

Rachel Richards 31:39

But I think, as an as an as on, you can't move on like you can't having another relationship when that's happened and while you're still nesting. I think if I met a man who was doing that, I probably wouldn't want to be in a relationship with him because I would find that very difficult if he was away every week, every other week yeah and I, you know, and and the whole point with that was they're not supposed to invite their partners, new partners, the home, because it's the children's, you know that's very selfless and an amazing way of doing it.

Susie Asli 32:10

Maybe it also you know. The kids think the world revolves around.

Rachel Richards 32:14

Yeah, I don't know if they do anyway.

Susie Asli 32:16

I don't know, yeah, challenging and, if you can, if that works for you, brilliant.

Rachel Richards 32:21

Find that to do become an issue. Yeah, and again, really important, not to mention to the child. Can you ask such and such for? Yeah, do not ever involve them in any of this again using that as money or mom's got the money. Yes, no no, have that conversation with them to him, but don't have it.

Susie Asli 32:42

And also, I think another thing is there is you know so many people get divorced, you know it's really normal and common, and that it also giving the idea that, yes, it's really painful, it's really difficult, depending on how the team Reacts, but it also doesn't have to be the end of the world. We can also give that impression that you know we're gonna be alright guys. Yeah, that's really important, that it's. You know it's not the end of the world and that will help them frame it.

Rachel Richards 33:05

yeah, because when they can have a conversation with themselves and saying, okay, so I've got Two parents now who aren't together, but now I've got two families I can spend time with the wife got you know, and maybe that transition takes time and maybe it's really painful for a while.

Susie Asli 33:20

you got to get used to it and that's that's like there's a grief in it is a morning time because it's different and it's painful and will be okay at the other end.

Rachel Richards 33:28

yeah, yeah, absolutely and finally, it's the adults responsibility to go out of their way to make contact with the teenager and stay in contact, not the teenagers bells on. So we really have to be conscious that if you want to spend time with them, you don't blame your partner. You have to be the person who make that effort and it can be very difficult because there are partners who block. Yes, it's challenging. Hundred percent try and keep that.

Susie Asli 33:55

Those are the way it's crossing goes. I don't wanna see you and that's fine. You have to respect that and then go away, but I'm still here. I'm still here.

Rachel Richards 34:02

I'm still Keep messaging keep saying I'm here when you want to talk to me. I'm sorry you're hurting and you know, just just keep going at it because it's worth it and important for them important they need both parents. So a special thanks to everyone who contributed to this episode. I hope it's helped to guide you through the maze of marital breakdown and beyond, and if you have any feedback, you can reach us at teenagers untangled at gmailcom. Hit the follow button on your app, give us some stars, even leave a review to. You can find more on the website at www. Dot teenagers untangled dot com. And we're on instagram, twitter linked in. Seuss gotten separate instagram account and she puts lots of really good things like she writes a blog family that's got a watch website.

Susie Asli 34:50

Website is w w w dot a mindful hyphen life dot co dot uk and you can find links to all of my social media.

Rachel Richards 34:58

Show me a little bit sporadic on, but I do put things on she does put things on, and I'm not reading instagram's good one for her.

Susie Asli 35:04

All linked in, yeah or you can book a free chat with me. Book a free chat.

Rachel Richards 35:10

Don't just keep booking the free chat. So no, you get one. I feel like I need to call you out You're very welcome. That's it for now. Bye, bye, for now.