Blended Families and Step-Parenting Teenagers: Build Connection, Not Conflict

Hello and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug for fearless parents who are looking for a combination of research from experts and our own flawed experience to help you grow and learn. I'm Rachel Richards, former correspondent for the BBC, mother of two teenagers and two boneless daughters, which is our topic today. In other words, blended families, step parenting. I recently talked with Marcia Russanov about the best ways to navigate conflict. And at the end of the interview, we got on to reflecting on being a set parent. And I thought, wow, she'll be perfect for revisiting this topic, which I originally discussed with Susie about, I don't know, three and a half years ago now. We're going to explore why it can feel so challenging for everyone, why you're not broken, if you're finding it hard, which you probably are, uh, why it's so important to focus on building your relationship rather than disciplining them, and why emotional regulation doesn't mean never having difficult thoughts. We'll also get into the top tips for managing on a day-to-day basis. But anyway, welcome back to the podcast, Marcia.

Thank you so much, Rachel. It's so great to be here.

Yeah, great to see you again. Now, you you actually wrote a deeply honest Substack on this topic. And I loved your point that adults get to make the choices. And then our kids basically get new homes, new siblings, new routines, uh, you know, new loyalties, new tensions. And that can make it really tricky. Uh and it's not something that they choose. It's actually not something we often would choose, right? You you you fall in love with a person. How have you found that?

Uh, very difficult. You know, um, I wish I had this fairy tale story of like, oh, and you know, wending families was so easy. I met my husband and we fell in love and we all moved in. Not exactly how it all went down. Yeah, you know, we tried to be very gentle with the kids, but then things in life happened. For example, after we started dating, my grandma fell sick and she was dying. And it was clear that she was on her way out, and we were at that point already talking about getting married, and uh, we were kind of planning the wedding at some point in the future, and then this happens with my grandma, and we're like, well, if we want her to be there, we need to move along. Wow. Yes, yeah. So we got married in my parents' backyard, and my grandma was there, so she was bedridden, but we were there with her, and it was so important for me that that's how it happened. But at the same time, maybe not all the kids were ready for that step at that time. Like some kids probably would benefit from more time. And when I say kids, I mean uh one of our four uh children, two of my own, and then my husband has two daughters.

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I don't think there's ever a good time. We waited so long, I didn't want to meet them for the first six months because even though my husband wanted me to meet them, and I just said, look, it's not fair on them for, you know, let's let's see if we have a proper relationship before I enter their lives, because they don't need a parade of different women coming through their lives and confusing them because they were super, super young, mine were. And uh, we waited years. Not that we weren't even talking about marriage at all. We were just, I don't know, dating. But they would bring it up and they'd say, You're not gonna marry that woman, are you? And you know, things like that. And I'd say, Well, I'm that's not something we've even been talking about. Why are you bringing that up? And it became a really difficult topic. And eventually one day they said, Okay, you can get married. Again, we hadn't even talked to them about it, but no children. I do think kids want to wrestle some control, and often it's out of our hands. It's not, I mean, it is in our hands to an extent, but you know, the way our, like you say, we all want a fairy tale. I mean, who doesn't? Right. And wouldn't it be lovely if we just, you know, you met the man of your dreams and then it was all smooth sailing, and but that's not reality, is it? Yeah. So I do think that often children are grieving a loss anyway. They want their fairy tale, they want their parents to be together, they want this, this, you know, why can't I have the perfect parents? And my older bonus daughter one day said to me that it was only when she started to see all her friends' parents divorced that she realized that actually she had a really positive experience. But to start with, they can feel like really, you know, poor then. Right. Did what did you did you get that feeling with your kids at all?

I went through it myself when my parents divorced. Uh and then they both remarried pretty soon after. And at first it was very traumatic, uh, although I would say my mom handled everything really well, but it took me a really, really, really long time to completely let go of that fantasy, or even uh not of the parents being together per se, but the trauma of my dad leaving. I only recently through EMDR actually managed to find a reframe or see it in a different way where I started feeling so grateful that they actually did separate. Um interesting. Yeah, it it was just like the way of looking at things and recognizing what my life could have been like if they did stay together. And it would be very different for sure. But um, some people are just better when they're not with each other, just like me and my ex-husband, we are the bestest of friends now. When we were together as a married couple, things were tough, and the kids probably felt it too. But now, you know, we're friends and it works so much better for all of us and our current spouses and all the kids, because my husband's wife also has two kids, and they're older. But yeah, in some situations, you just start seeing it, and in the moment it might feel like, yes, it's loss and it's grieving, and for the kids too. But then now even my son's friends are like, wow, you you're so lucky you have two parents who actually get along, because for many of them, their divorced parents don't.

Yes, yes, and that's a very important point, and that actually caused a lot of problems in my situation because the parents didn't get on. And I do think it makes a massive difference if there's a good relationship there, because otherwise, when the kids are coming to you, there's so much um uh mistrust. Because if your biological parent doesn't get on with you know the other biological parent, and the other biological parent is with somebody else, there's a whole load of like what's going on here, and they can't they can't secure themselves to anything. So that's really, really tricky. And it would be nice if we could all get on, but we can't. Um, but it would be really great. Um, what I'm interested in, Gloria, you've got in your immediate family with your husband, you've got two of your own kids, and then there are two other ones, one of whom doesn't live with you. And then, you know, obviously there's an there is that sounds really complicated, like there are another two kids on the scene. So your sons have got uh a complicated setup too. What's really interesting in in the article that you wrote was you pointed out how step parenting feels different emotionally. And you talked about this biological buffer and that we often feel guilty and we struggle with patience with the stepkids. Can you talk a bit more about your thoughts and experience of that? Because I'm hearing that from other people, other parents I've spoken to who are who are stepparents.

Well, it's the biological mechanisms of when you give birth to a child, you immediately have this unconditional love and acceptance of them. And you forgive everything, you know, forgive them for everything, no matter what they do. There's this innate bond that you form with your biological child. And when new people come into your life, even if they're kids, you know, your bonus kids, you don't have that with them. It's just like any other relationship that we develop later in life, not from the start, where you kind of have to earn each other's trust and you have to get to know each other and you become friends, and potentially that grows into love and deeper feelings towards each other and deeper connection. But it's just not there by default, just like it is with your biological kids. And because of that, it's a little bit different with how we, I guess, we behave around our own kids and our stepkids. And as rational and fair and empathetic adults, we try really hard to be even and fair and um have the same standards for everybody in the family and the same consequences. However, there are still things like triggers that um we feel just so much more acutely when it's not our biological child doing something. Yes. It's normal because that's how biologically it is wired. But if you're not aware of it, then it starts influencing how you are with your kids versus stepkids. But once you become aware of this and recognize that that's there, you have more power to show up differently or to choose how you actually respond in different situations.

Yes, I think that's absolutely true. And I remember when I was researching this that we we turn up with it's like a bank that we're deposit putting deposits in. And when you give birth to a child or you're right there from the very start, that emotional bank gets filled up over the years and these and you get interest on it, and you know, every and this these layers of knowledge about each other really impact on that relationship. A new step parent arrives with no emotional credit, there's nothing there. So you can't take anything out of that bank. You can't start withdrawing things and expecting things when you haven't actually built that relationship yet. And I have found that over the years with my older bonus daughters who are now like 28 and 31, that emotional bank has built up to such an extent that we have a really good relationship. I still would I still think it's not as deepened as it would be had I been with them, you know, had they be I've been biologically looking after them from day one. Um it just you know, you try, but it's not the same. I think this leans into one of the issues, which is Patricia Papernau's principle, where she's talking about connection before correction. And I think this matters for all of us. So anybody who's raising kids and teenagers in particular, it's this kind of we need to connect before you actually start trying to correct somebody because if you're not connected to them, they're not going to listen to you. In fact, it's it's about emotional regulation, isn't it? And being able to just be calm, because no one can listen to someone when they're not emotionally calm. But with a bonus kid, you can't walk in there and start enforcing discipline without building that relationship first. How did you find that with your situation?

Um you know, we use natural parenting. Have you heard of that one? Tell me about it. Uh natural parenting, it's a play on words that it's not your parenting. Uh we agree that um the consequences and the disciplining we do with our own biological children. And we never, if possible, do the like the harder part with our bonus children. Because we haven't built up that bank yet. It takes so many years to build that connection. So now, whenever something happens, like I see something happening with my bonus daughter that um maybe needs addressing, I go to my husband. I don't go to her directly and say, Hey, you didn't you know do the dishes properly or whatever. Um, I go to my husband and they say, Hey, when you have a moment, can you, you know, talk to her about this thing that I noticed? And um, and then he does. And same thing with my boys. If he sees something that they're doing that needs to be addressed, he goes to me and not to them. There are, of course, exceptions when we are not, you know, when the other parent is not around and something is happening that needs to be addressed right now, of course we do. Or if it's our own boundaries that are being pushed, then it's our responsibility to protect our own boundaries. But everything else, you know, over disciplining, the biological parent does. And I think it works so well.

So yes. So I think that's so smart. And I think that the whole setting of boundaries, there's a human setting of boundaries that should be expected in relationships, and that's what you're doing. You can set boundaries as a human being. It's just whether you're actually trying to parent them, which is a kind of different relationship, isn't it? But I have spoken to people who've been in relationships where the biological parent is not actually stepping up and it's it causes so much friction in the house because you know, if if you're the person who is seeing the issues, mentioning it to the biological parent and the parent doing nothing, that can be very difficult to navigate, can't it? I mean, it's kind of important to sit down and have those conversations and say, come on, we need to have an agreement over this.

Yes, there's that. And I see relationships fall apart because of that, uh, where the step parent feels like the biological parent is not stepping up, and then inevitably there's different uh behavior towards biological and bonus kids, and that just leads to total chaos. And then another issue is the difference between how uh co-parents parent, right? So difference between households, where in one household there is one approach to parenting and a set of rules, and in another, it's a totally different picture, uh, totally different game, maybe even no rules. And that confuses the kids a bit. But I do have to say that they figure it out eventually and they are able to learn, you know, what the different rules are in different households and they follow it pretty easily.

Yeah, I think it's really horrible, actually. I mean, I, you know, I think about kids who have to move one week in one household, one week in another household, or one weekend in the household, and they've got to move all their stuff or, you know, carry a new bag, or they've got a separate amount of stuff there and having to navigate different rules. And then I also think, wow, they're getting a head start on understanding that you move into a different space and often the rules are different. And you know, navigating that, they they probably get quite good at it, where other kids who don't ever have to experience that may not not really understand that until later in life. So there's some there is some benefits to it. Um, I and I do think coming back to the the issue with uh connection and bonding, one of the things I found really tricky was right from the start, one of my bonus daughters just didn't want to bond with me. She wanted to push me away all the time. And I think it's not personal. And we've got to understand that it's probably about their sense of loyalty, that they're scared to show you too much affection because like they see you as pulling their the other parent away, or that they it would be disloyal to the parent that they normally live or they spend time with. So I do think that's one of the things that shows up. And as parents, we need to really notice and manage that because it can feel very painful for us. I mean, have you got any experience with that?

Yes. Um I guess my own and also with my clients, um, where the parent may not even intentionally do this, but they just cannot self-regulate enough to not show how they feel about the other parent. And right, it's the uh about the other parent or their spouse or partner, and any mention by the child of this other side, the parent or their spouse or anybody else, triggers that person, and they are maybe they're not saying anything, but they have facial expressions and the energy changes and they tense and they roll their eyes or they sigh, or you know, or they do say something like, Oh, you know, that person. Make little comments. Uh it doesn't take that much uh for the child to notice this different of a difference of dynamic.

Yes.

And you know, we talk a lot about parental alienation, and it's things like this that leads to that, to parental alienation and estrangement, where one parent is just um can't regulate to uh stay calm, stay present, and stay positive when the other parent or their family come up. And it's just so tough. And uh I see it so many times just working with people who are going through a divorce because divorce, you know, triggers the conflict and it's not an easy process, and there are fights about assets and custody and all of that. And it's so hard to stay regulated through that in front of your child. Like you get a text and you're like, you know, that person just said, what? Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's it's and we're all in in this really Of course.

And I thought what was really interesting was I, from the day one, I thought these poor girls don't deserve like it's not their fault. So I made a promise to myself that I would always be positive about their mother. Because the father and the mother were having a uh, you know, a tough time as a in their relationship. I thought there needs to be someone in this who's just gonna go, your mum's great, you know, I'm not gonna say anything. He wasn't saying things to them either, but they, you know, slowly things were coming back, which were just patently not true, but they were one side of a situation. And it's really hard not to say, yeah, but that's not really right. Um and sometimes it you can sort of try and correct it a little bit, but you have to kind of let it go. And then later on, as they get older and they're more capable of listening to other nuanced ways of looking at things, that you can give them more information when you can see they're ready and they're ready to to handle that. Um it's very hard not to push back and say, oh, that's not um, and I loved you. One of the things you brought up in your our previous discussion was the bif statements. Brief, informative, friendly, and firm. Absolutely love, and I used that the other day with my daughter, and I think, and you said it works for teenagers. I imagine it also, if I had had that, I could have used that with my my bonus daughters rather than getting dragged into a situation. You know, just shut it down with just being really brief. I'm saying what you you're going to say and being really friendly about it and then just finishing off.

Yes. Yes. Um, I love this framework from Bill Ady, and I use it too quite a bit with teenagers. Everybody else, really. Uh, because I think it's a very clean and a kind of um humane way to get your point across. Um yeah, you're just brief, you're informative, friendly, and firm. And when they say firm, it's really about your boundary or the consequence or whatever it is, the deadline maybe. Depends on the situation. With the kids, it could be like, hey, you promised, you know, you promised that you would put the garbage bins back yesterday after school. And I see they're still there, you know, that's a fact. Nothing to argue. And uh, if you uh please do this by, you know, X uh PM, um we can then go and have an ice cream. I don't know. Uh that sounds like a bribe though. But uh or you know, if you don't do it by 4 p.m., then I will do it. Um and sometimes that's enough to scare them because if I do something that they have to do, that's like, ooh, consequences were that, and you don't know what they are yet, but oh no, you don't want mom to do this for you.

No, I love that. And I I do think that the role we play particularly early on, uh, I think some people struggle with it. A lot of people struggle with it. I think I struggled with it. I was, I just thought I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And I try try to sort of lurk in the background. I I I hands on heart, I definitely don't think I handle this perfectly at all in any way. In fact, I think I was terrible at it. Because I just had never been in this situation before. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. And and I sort of just hung back a lot. Um, and I think that if I'd been more clear with myself about the sort of role I could play realistically, it might have helped me a bit. And I think. I think the role that a step parent can play is almost like an aunt role or an uncle role. And it's more like being a supportive, trust trusted adult who can who's gonna just hold their own human boundaries, but they are really prepared to sort of listen to the kid and just be fun with them. You know, not trying to not trying to be serious and parenty about it. Um I don't know what do you think?

I first of all can relate to not being perfect from the get-go. I I was figuring it out. So hard. When we moved in together, I actually took a course about positive parenting. And did you? Mm-hmm. Because I didn't know what I was doing. Uh I had two boys, and all of a sudden we had four kids because that's how it started. And we were both like, what are we doing? I certainly didn't know what to do. My husband certainly didn't know what he was doing with my boys, and there was certainly lack of role clarity for for all of us there. And we had so many new relationships in the household, because it's three of us, three of them, and everybody has a relationship with everybody, right? Yes. Yeah. And then um as I learned things and with practice and just settling into things, um I agree that it feels kind of like a fun aunt type of role. You know, I did uh this morning I did my bonus daughter's hair and it was just like, wee, you know, it was so fun. But uh as long as we can leave the parenting to the parent and be this fun, trusted adult who has their back 100% of the time, you know, for sure, then things are gonna work out great.

Yeah, yeah. I 100%. And I do think though that there is this um we have to address the fact that sometimes you're going to feel trapped and you are going to feel this kind of grief for this simple life that you thought would be your lot. Because we all dream of having a nice simple life. And I remember when I first met my future husband, I talked to his m his mother, I was chatting to her, and and she asked me about his daughters, and I said, Yeah, you know, I was really kind of when I found out. And she was horrified that I said that. And I said, It's not that I don't like or love them or anything, but when you know that this person that you really think is amazing and you love has a very complicated situation, surely it's acceptable to acknowledge that this is going to be a thing that's going to be tricky. And I think, I think actually emotional regulation and being able to calm your emotions is not about never feeling upset and never feeling, you know, like why me or any of that stuff. I think it's about actually being able to notice those feelings and be able to let them express them in some way so that you can then allow them out rather than trying to stuff them down and pretend that they're not there.

Yes. I went through that too, the grieving of the loss of what I thought my life would look like. You know, because we have an idea of how things are gonna go, and then you meet this person and there's all this complicated net of people and things and history around them, and we inherit all of it with the person, and we have no idea what we're getting into sometimes, and nobody tells us ahead of time like this is gonna be hard. No, people are like, oh, you know, you're gonna meet someone new or someone else, or you're gonna remarry, and by the way, they're gonna maybe have a couple of children, and maybe they're gonna have an ex, and maybe things are not gonna be as smooth as you think.

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um and the other point about it is actually that the stepkids don't owe us affection or closeness, they just don't. And it's our responsibility for creating a safe environment where they can feel that they can relax and be connected to us. And I think that's a heavy load to carry, but it's actually important that we take that responsibility. We don't, because I I know that when when I was younger and that the sort of the generation above my generation, like my parents, they sort of had this attitude that I I should be doing the work. Like, well, if you want to speak to me, then you need to come and speak to me. And I think hopefully we've moved on from that and realized that it's just not their, it's not their responsibility.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, my stepdad did a great job with that. And my father's wife as well. Um, they really put effort into building a relationship with me. And it was not immediate by any means. There was no like, ooh, this is great, my new parent. Yay, you know. But it it took some time, but now I have a great relationship with both of them and have had for years. But I agree, people just expect the kids to also love their stepparent because they are their step parent. And no, why would they? It's an adult, a stranger that king comes into their life and they're there and now they have to love them because their parent loved them. No, they don't. No, they don't. They don't owe anyone anything.

I they don't, and also I do think that coming back to your point about the way that um some of us bristle when the other the other biological parent is mentioned, that's 50% of their DNA. So if we're rude about them or we are, you know, harmful, hurtful, um, they will feel that as a body blow. And I do think allowing we can allow space in the in the relationship for them to talk about their parent and anything that's happened where it feels good, because what you're then doing is you're allowing their whole self to be there rather than expecting them to cut some of themselves off in order to have a relationship with you. That's not a fair thing to do, is it?

No. Yes. And we have a little ritual with our kids when they come back on Mondays from uh the week at the other household. We um uh we tend to discuss at dinner what were the highlights for everybody for the past week when we can see each other. And we celebrate all the highlights and we're happy for them when they share things about what they did with the other parents and you know, the other family members. And they're so happy and they know that it's safe to express that and that we are genuinely happy for them. We see that they're having fun, you know, that they do things there, and it's so great. And um, it's so important to yeah, to support that, to really support the relationship they have with the other parent, no matter how anyone feels about each other on the adult level. Oh my gosh, yeah, I cannot say enough how important it is. And it's also so hard sometimes. Like I have a couple of clients who are co-parenting with um people who have personality disorders. And can you imagine doing that, knowing, you know, all the things that have happened in the past between the parents, yet the parents, those moms, they their moms, um, they are able to shield their child from how they feel. And they encourage that relationship. In some cases, it's even supervised uh visits, but still the mom is like, oh, you know, you you spent, you know, you went to playground with dad. This is so good. I'm so happy for you. And I'm like, wow, you guys are heroes. It's it's really a not heroes.

Yes, yes. It's not our job to point at the thing that that person does wrong or what's wrong with them. That child at some point will work it out for themselves if if at all. It's not that's not in something we need to be doing. I love your point about having that little tradition when they turn up. And I do think uh having family traditions in the house, in your own house that are low pressure can really, really help solidify the sense that you are a family. So, you know, a Sunday ice cream or Friday movie nights or just simple things where they know that that's what you do at that house and they're not competitive. I think the problem, you know, do not do the big competitive stuff because you're just going to annoy the other parent, particularly if they can't afford those things. But do the simple things because actually quite often they just want to play cards or they want, they want to know that when they're in that house, they get this thing. So that routine can make just such a big difference, can't it? And what about showing up for things? Like showing up for performances and um, you know, because sometimes it's on the other person's time. But if you can get to it, I mean, my my daughter, my bonus daughter, one of her younger birthdays, she just said, Oh, I want Rachel there. It was at her mother's house with her whole mother's family and all these people I didn't know. And I just thought, God, this is really hard. But I knew that if she wanted me there, I was definitely going to be there. And it was quite challenging. I hid against the wall and just was friendly to people, but I just tried not to take up oxygen in that room. And I don't know if I did that right, but I think turning up can be really important. How do you navigate that?

Yes, those are so hard uh when the child in all their best interests and antennas, like, oh, I want everybody there. Uh and everybody is like, uh yes. Yeah, it's not we certainly show up to all the events that are held in public spaces, you know, and even if the birthday is somewhere in the park, we'll we've come to that for all the kids. The kid invited us all. And it's important in those moments to prioritize the child and what their wishes are on their day. But sometimes in certain situations, I've seen this certainly with clients. Um, it's impossible for the parents to be in the same space. And then they agree how they're gonna handle it. So either follow the parenting schedule or celebrate the birthday twice at different households, but there are ways to do it. It may not be 100% of what the child wants, but if you know there's a way they can compromise or find a way to celebrate with each parent separately, that's fine too. It's whatever works for the family, really. There's no right or wrong way to do it.

Yeah.

And, you know, you showing up there, it's uh it's tough. And ooh. Uh, but you did what the child asked you to do, right? Yeah. Yeah. So there you are. And that's great. She probably was really happy that you were there.

That's what I did a lot of clinging to walls when my kids were young, just so I was standing in the background. Um one one thing I want to mention is how important the adult relationship is between you and your partner. So that's the anchor, that's the emotional anchor of the family, isn't it? And and actually, I know that my youngest bonus daughter was very jealous. And she told me, you know, because um I kept saying to her, Why are you saying you're not going to marry that woman, aren't you? And and things like that. I hugged her and just said, What's happening? And she said, Because then daddy won't love me anymore. And at least she told me because then I could address it and say, That's absolutely impossible. Your father can never stop loving you. He that that that's like absolutely unconditional. But I do think that there's an element of how do we navigate this new relationship and this love and the the when we get gets into a long relationship. And I know that my bonus daughter, my eldest particularly, has said she's so grateful to see us in a consistently loving relationship, going out on date nights, showing each other affection, being courteous towards each other, because it's even though if she couldn't get the big fantasy back, it's restoring her faith in how an adult relationship can work.

Yes, absolutely. I think the kids are going to end up a lot happier in life if they have that example in front of their eyes. And we also have that loving relationship with my husband where we prioritize date nights and you know, we go on a nightly walk every night, and the kids know that we do this and they see this. And they also have other examples in front of them, you know. The girls have their mom and her relationship in front of their eyes, and the boys have my ex-husband and his wife's uh relationship, and they're all very different. So as kids get older, they will probably adopt some things that they uh enjoy or you know want to adopt from all the different households and relationships. But also what's important, I think, is the hierarchy, right? Because oftentimes when the child is brought up to the level of adult by either parent, when they start consulting with them or share oversharing or you know, getting emotionally vulnerable with them at the adult level, that kind of brings up the child to the same level as the parent, which confuses the heck out of them. Oh goodness, yes. Right? They cannot handle that level of responsibility or uh depth or understanding. They they're not a therapist, they're not a friend. Um, and that's also when jealousy issues kind of flare up, you know. Um, I've seen that happen too, where it's mom or dad and they start consulting with their child about their relationship, and the child feels so important, right? And they're now feeling like they have a say in their parent relationships. And that's just leads to all kinds of chaos and mess. Wow. Yes.

Oh my goodness, I can't imagine. Yeah. Say for your friends, ask your friends. Ask your friends. Ask somebody else, your therapist, it doesn't matter, do not ask your kids for that advice. No, you're absolutely right. And it's preventification, isn't it? And they do not benefit from any of that at all. And like you said, they end up getting confused about their role and then trying to push boundaries more because they're like, well, if that's my role, if I'm providing the kind of emotional backup, then maybe I should be doing other things as well in this house and telling other people what to do. So I do think you've got a really important point there. Is there anything else, Marsha, that you think sort of really important that we haven't yet covered?

Um, I might guess just to continue a little bit on that point, that uh one way to establish this family structure where the parents are parent and step parent or whoever is the um kind of like the main family unit. What we do is when a child uh asks some for something or permission for something, or like, oh, can I have a sleepover? I say, let me check with my husband. Who wouldn't have that? Uh, you know, that's um that shows them that I am not gonna make unilateral decisions in this household by myself. I cannot be influenced into something that my husband wouldn't agree to. And uh same, you know, it goes in both directions. We don't make decisions uh unilaterally about anyone. We consult with each other and the kids know it and they trust the structure too. So they know that they can't, and we also, by the way, consult, you know, I will talk to their my son's dad about important decisions. So they know that they cannot go around us and say, oh, you know, dad said no, so I'm gonna ask mom or vice versa. Um so they know that the parents have to approve of things together. And when I say the parents, I mean all the parents, right? And I think it's so important for the child to feel that because that also provides security and safety and this feeling of support and being supported, being loved, and that's what the kids need ultimately.

Because of course you've got quite a confusing setup in one way because you have, you know, many different pockets there. Well, you've got three different pockets, haven't you? And and you're not always going to do things the same way.

No.

So they're going to look at the other one and go, well, hang on a second, they're doing they're getting that. Um, like different disparities, for example, in in in you know, uh pocket money or or, you know, gifts or that th those sorts of things can cause huge problems, can't they?

Yes, there are disparities. Um but we at this point I feel like we've become pretty good about getting alignment on the most important things. We don't get alignment from everybody on all the things, but at least on the most important things, the big ticket items, you know, we choose our battles, I guess.

With all the parents, always. That I think that's the parenting thing, isn't it? Just choose your battles. Choose your battles. Right, right. Don't try to definitely don't try and be perfect and definitely don't pick everything.

You know, um Yeah, and as long as the child is healthy and safe, it's fine. You know, parallel parenting, any kind of other parenting, great. As long as the child is safe and healthy, then okay. Yeah. They can do whatever they want.

Brilliant. Love it. And you know, in summary, I think pet step parents need to be just be feel like an addition, not a replacement. And you know, you can do the art thing or whatever. But yeah, it's it's it's communication is so important. If you don't discuss these things, then you can't actually resolve problems as they arise. So I love I love your tips. Thank you, Marsha. Um, your book's out now. Isn't it? It's come out now. Um, do you want to tell us a little bit more about that and then how people can find you?

Yeah, um, it's uh my book is called Repatterned, and it's about transforming our patterns that actually drive us. It's all about emotional regulation, whether it's an internal conflict or a family conflict or any other kind of conflict. It's a um framework that I developed on how to do this, how to regulate in three simple steps. And that results in different outcomes that are much more productive for everyone involved, including yourself. And you can find me on my website, masharosanam.com, and my book has a separate website, but it's also on my website, but it's repatternbook.com. I'm also on Instagram as Mashaarosan.

Yes, and I do love the book. I've read it cover to cover, and I love you've got really useful sections where people can work through scenarios and it's it's yeah, it's it's great. And it covers, you know, all the and and we're just repeating things. That's the whole thing. You know, instead we is a way of sort of stopping and going, okay, I'm not going to repeat all the stupid things I did in the past. I'm going to actually try and change, pause, and change things. So, yes, thank you so much, Marcia. Um, I'll also put your Substack link on because you've put some good writing on that. Um, that's it for now. If you found this useful, do it right now. Send it to someone you know who might find it useful. And uh you can find me at www.teenagersuntangled.com. You can email me at teenagersuntangled.gmail.com. My substack is teenagersuntangled.substack.com. And I'm on all the social media. So come and say hi. Ask me any questions you like. I love getting questions because it helps me direct the next guests and what we're going to talk about on the podcast. Uh that's it for me. Big hug. Have a great week. Bye bye.