Nov. 18, 2025
Anxiety about saying what we think, and why it matters.
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In this episode clinical psychologist, Dr. Chloe Carmichael discusses the increasing anxiety among people about expressing their opinions due to fear of being "canceled" or socially isolated.
What she is seeing is that this fear extends beyond politically charged topics to everyday conversations and self-consorship on an increasing level.
With that, there's been a rise in "no contact" trends, where individuals cut off relationships over political differences, leading to social isolation and mental health issues.
She emphasizes the importance of free speech for mental health and resilience and gives us a range of practical tips including reflective listening and open dialogue to foster understanding and reduce pressure to conform to others' opinions.
Dr Chloe Carmichael:
http://www.freespeechtoday.com/
https://www.instagram.com/drchloe_/
New York Times poll response:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/opinion/cancel-culture-free-speech-poll.html
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00:00 - Podcast Introduction: Supporting Teenagers Through Free Speech and Parenting Challenges
02:22 - Cancel Culture: Understanding Teen Anxiety About Speaking Up
04:02 - Family Estrangement and Mental Health: The Impact of "No Contact" Among Teens
06:28 - College Free Speech Crisis: Campus Climate and Parental Fears
07:17 - University Free Speech Rights: Using School Policies to Protect Diverse Viewpoints
08:55 - Why Open Dialogue Matters: The Importance of Honest Conversations for Mental Health
12:41 - Building Emotional Intelligence: Vocabulary, Language, and Teen Well-being
16:24 - How Parents Can Handle Difficult Teen Opinions: Reflective Listening Strategies
18:00 - Healthy Communication vs. Self-Censorship: Teaching Teens Open Expression
19:34 - Parenting Teens: Fostering Values and Effective Dialogue at Home
23:28 - Best Practices for Parent-Teen Communication: Active Listening Tools
26:43 - Listening vs. Agreement: Overcoming the Fear of Compliance in Family Talks
30:32 - Managing Family Conflict: Tips for Civil Holiday Gatherings With Opposing Views
32:58 - Navigating University Life: Mental Health and Expressing Opinions Safely
36:04 - The Power of Asking Questions: Helping Teens Build Confidence and Critical Thinking
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Hello and welcome to teenagers. Untangled, the audio hug for anyone supporting kids going through the tween and teen years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, a mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now today's guest is a clinical psychologist who says that in recent years, something has changed. She's used to treating people who are anxious, but that anxiety is increasingly because they're scared of saying the wrong thing. And we're not just talking about politically charged conversations, but in everyday life. Dr Chloe Carmichael is the best selling author of nervous energy, harnessing your anxiety, and her new book, can I say that explains what she's been seeing, why it really matters and gives us some great tools for having difficult conversations in our homes, workplaces and communities. Welcome. Dr Chloe,
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thank you so much, Rachel, it's great to be with you, and I really appreciate you having me.
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I'm very grateful that you wrote this book, because I have been seeing exactly this problem. And my teens, when they went up to the secondary school, told me that they felt they needed to be super careful all the time about what they said and how they said it, because they felt like they might unwittingly tread on some kind of speech landmine, you say in the book, there are two types of clients who are being affected by this. What are you seeing?
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So I see clients that are afraid to speak their mind because they're afraid of being canceled. And then I also see this peer pressure to go along with cancelations like, Well, gee, if I don't cancel that person hard enough, because everybody else says that they're canceled. Am I going to be guilty by association if I even just have friends that have a diverse viewpoint from what I have? You know, even if I don't agree with them, maybe I just still want to continue to talk to them. Or maybe I even do agree with them, I just don't want to cancel them, whatever they're just so afraid. As you said, it feels like a landmine getting canceled in I know you said it doesn't feel like it has to be about politically charged topics. But the issue is, is that when we look at the etymology, the root of the word politics, it just means public life. So if you have teenagers at a school.
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They're not necessarily trying to be political. But you know, what if the topic of abortion comes up? What if the topic of trans pronouns comes up? What if immigration comes up? You know, I mean, these are part of everyday life. That's what politics means, is it just means public spaces, shared spaces, community, public life. That's really all the word means. So even if somebody doesn't want to get on a soapbox and stump for a political candidate, if they're going to talk at all about issues that affect our everyday public life, then they're going to be political in some way, whether they mean to or not.
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Yes, I think you're so right about that, and it's not really something I've thought that deeply about. And I think that we've also seen more people going no contact. So is this part of this as well? Do you think this is being affected by this?
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Yeah, unfortunately, and as a clinical psychologist, I am so thankful again, just for the chance to talk to people about this here on your show and everywhere I can. Because I think people who are going no contact, which, in case anyone out there is fortunate enough to have not heard of going no contact, is a growing trend where, typically, younger people cut off contact all together, oftentimes even with, say, their own parents or their grandparents, because of political differences. And they tend to think that they are doing it for virtuous reasons, or that it's going to be good for their mental health, that they're taking a brave and bold step by going no contact. So that's why I really want to help them to understand that cutting out the voices of people that you disagree with, especially people who love you, who raised you is not good for your or their mental health. But even let's just think from a from a self first perspective, which is fine to just think even about meeting your own needs, it's not going to be good for people's mental health to go no contact.
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I mean, unless the person literally locked you in a broom closet you know, refuses to apologize. Okay, I could see the going no contact argument, but because the person, again, views abortion, immigration, voted for a different politician that going no contact creates loneliness. It creates social isolation. It. Also sends a message to yourself internally, that you are too weak to tolerate any kind of disagreement, that you can't handle a diversity of opinions.
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So again, I think people mean well with these types of things, and that's why I'm hopeful maybe they'll be open to understanding that the real road to mental health comes from resilience, where we can talk over different ideas and disagree and still have social support from each other.
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Yes, and I think it's such a pity, because I've even spoken to a mother who said she was very scared of losing her daughters if she even asks questions about things, because it shows that she doesn't really understand it.
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And I just think this is such a pity, because what you're doing is you're doing is you're just stifling all sorts of conversations in a family, which is really, really painful. I think you said in your book that a Gallup Knight Foundation poll found that 65% of college students believe their campus climate discourages free speech.
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My daughter's just gone up to Oxford, and she said they actually actively said, We promote free speech here, you are not allowed to shut down what people say, but that's not that's different when you say that that's important, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it then happens, because I think there is, there are other steps that are required for people to feel safe saying things true.
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Yeah. I mean, I am happy to hear that that is at least being said. And as you said, walking the walk and talking the talk are two different things. I recently actually spoke at Columbia University. I gave a online talk to their community about the mental health benefits of free speech. And Columbia University is, you know, has been on, you know, the naughty list of you know, free speech, to be honest, Oxford, as I'm sure you know, has been a little bit in the news about issues related to free speech as well, not always on the right side, in my view, but I'm at least glad to hear that they are talking the talk and putting that commitment out there. So just on a super practical note for people, and you know, you mentioned that 65% number of students not feeling like their campus encourages free speech. I think, unfortunately, it's probably even worse now. But the good news about campuses, at least giving lip service to this, is, if you're, if you're at a university or school and you want to speak up about something, you can upload your university if it's legal, always check if it's legal. But consider uploading your policy manual from your school into chat, GPT and just saying, Hey, can you tell me all the parts here that back up my right to express a diverse viewpoint, because then at least you know on paper, like how the school should be on your side. And then if you do want to take a stand about an issue, you can quote the policy manual and let people know you know that that you truly are well within your
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rights. I love that. That's really great tip.
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You have taken issue with this whole concept of having safe spaces where people can be protected from certain things that might upset or offend them.
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What is your thinking on that?
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Yeah, so again, I think that people were well intentioned when they came up with this concept of safe spaces like, oh, well, it'll be great for mental health. We'll have these safe spaces where you cannot say X, Y or Z, and then you know, people will be safe from rhetoric that they dislike.
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I believe that people were well intentioned when they came up with that. As a clinical psychologist, I want them to know it's very misinformed. A safe space, first of all, is one where we know what people are really, actually thinking. As a woman, if somebody thinks, you know, women are stupid and they should all be beat up or whatever, I would rather know what they think. I wouldn't feel safer just because they were told to mask their views.
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Secondly, a safe space is one where we can tolerate disagreement. You know, a safe space doesn't mean one. You know, where people go because they're they're so fragile. I would rather be in a place where it's safe to have a disagreement, otherwise, what an anxiety provoking way, what an unsafe feeling to live your life, that if somebody says the wrong thing, or you say the wrong thing, World War Three could ensue, you know, because, you know this is supposed to be a safe space, and so therefore we'll cut your tongue out if you say the wrong words. You know, that doesn't feel very safe to me. So again, I think they meant well, but I just want them to understand that it may have been a misguided effort. Yes,
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and also the whole point that they just because you stop people from saying things doesn't mean that they don't still think them. So then you don't get the chance to actually disabuse them of the way that they're thinking exactly.
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It's like, it's like saying, Well, I don't owe any money because I never open. My credit card bills, I never see what's in the envelope, so therefore I just don't have any problems of credit card bills. That's my technique. So exactly we want to know what people really think, silencing them doesn't make the view go away, and as you said very well, it deprives all of us from the opportunity to persuade and discuss and when, when we can get people to say things aloud, Haven't we all said something aloud and only realized as we say it? Gee, as I say aloud, this actually doesn't make any sense. As I hear myself saying this, maybe I actually, you know, feel differently when we when we speak. It actually does something very interesting from a scientific perspective, it gives us distance between ourselves and our thoughts.
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That's why it's literally called expressing ourselves, you know, getting something out on the table so we can apply rationality and logic, you know, and examine it and have a healthy sense of detachment from our thoughts. So I explain in the book even that members of the Ku Klux Klan or jihadi recruiters, the way that those people most successfully have been disabused and broken free and renounced to those ideologies is not by someone telling them, shut up. You're not allowed to talk about that is by the opposite, is by people having dialog with them, and those people realizing, through cognitively stimulating, emotionally rich dialog, that the human mind, the wonderful, incredible human mind, you know, is able to adapt and change.
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It's not by pushing things underground that's where they actually fester.
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So talking about talking you go very well into the cognitive benefits of language, and that having a sort of wide vocabulary for what we're thinking and feeling is critically important for our own mental health. Can you talk a bit more about why it's so important to have a free range on language? Absolutely.
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Yeah, there's so many cognitive and emotional benefits, as you said, and having a wider vocabulary.
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So for example, when I'm trying to teach clients how to emotionally regulate, one of the first things I want to do is actually increase their emotional vocabulary, because when we label our feelings, that's our amygdala, which is the fear center of the brain, calms down. So suppose that I have an irrational fear of some, you know, demographic or group of people, and I never talk about it, my amygdala is just going crazy like they're, they're getting bigger and scarier in my mind, right? And my cortisol levels going up.
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Because when we don't express ourselves, our cortisol level goes up. But if I, if I talk about it, my amygdala starts to calm down, and I start to realize, wait a minute, what am I really so scared of here?
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Like, what? Why is that? Why is that group so, you know, frightening? And is there, is there, is there a practical reason, you know, let's talk about it. And then my cortisol levels start to go down. And then, on a cognitive level, when we speak aloud, we actually increase our problem solving skills, you know, we begin to increase our powers of rationality, and we start to have social support. We start to activate our network. We do all of these things through language, which is why, for example, if I'm working with, say, violent offenders, I don't personally, in my private practice, work with violent offenders, but in my training, I've worked at hospitals and things like that. When psychologists are working with violent offenders or people with anger management problems, one of the first things we want to do is increase their ability to use their words when they're upset, so that they don't escalate to acting out passive aggression or possibly even violence. So yeah, when people are struggling with interpersonal conflict or even irrational, negative thoughts.
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We want to empower them to use the gift of language, not stifle them, and encourage repression, suppression, denial, all that kind of
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stuff. What I'd like to do is I'd like to actually think about the kinds of scenarios in homes where we have kids who might be exploring ideas that we really don't like.
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And I know that some parents find this very upsetting, and they'll instantly shut it down, just saying, that's a that's a terrible opinion. I don't agree, but that the kid probably will just walk away and think, Well, you just don't understand. Which is true? Yes, right, right?
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Yes. Just as an example, like, suppose your teenager says to you, Well, I think communism is the answer to all of our problems, right?
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You might say that's a terrible idea, and I disagree. Your child could walk away, as you said, saying, Well, you don't understand and they'd be right.
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It doesn't mean that you don't understand communism. But they are correct that you don't understand why they think, what they think, or how they got these ideas, or anything else.
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So you're right on there, Rachel, that they would walk away thinking you don't understand, and they would walk away thinking you're not interested in what I have to say, and that you're driving them into the arms of the very ideology that you want to shine a light on for them, just for example,
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right? So for a parent who's in this tricky situation, we need some tools.
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So where we want some healthy dialog. Let's start with what happens when we don't say what we think, because there are different ways of doing that. So there's kind of being restrained, and then there's self censorship. Can you explain the difference and why those differences really matter?
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Absolutely so healthy self restraint, there's a whole section in the book. Can I say that why free speech matters and how to use it fearlessly? There's a whole section on healthy self restraint versus self censorship. So you know, this book is not about seeing everything that comes into your mind at all times and having no filter, you know. So if your teenager puts on, you know, a quote, ridiculous teenager outfit and says, Hey Mom, don't I look cool, you know, you don't need to say, you know, you you you look like the town crier or whatever, you know, you can say, well, you know, it's certainly your very unique style, and you certainly look, you know, modern and kind of an edgy look. You know, you've eye catching. You know, you can say all those things and hold back about anything insulting without, you know, really worrying too much.
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But if, if we're getting into issues that are values, that are important issues of values, and we're masking or pretending, you know, that's when we're getting into self censorship. The root of the word censor goes back to the times of Romans. They would have these soldiers called censors that would ride about all the Roman territories and tell people what was allowed to be said, what was not allowed to be said, what values or opinions were allowed to be held and which were not so if you get into the point where you feel like the Roman censor soldier is standing over your head, that's when you're in self censorship territory. If you're just telling your mother in law that the soup tastes delicious, you know that's not really. That's just healthy self restraint.
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Perhaps I love that. I love that explanation, because that really brings it to life. And this question of our own values, maybe we discover our own values by having these conversations. As I've found that when I go to other countries, for example, that's when I realize, oh, I don't do this, or I do do this. And it's by brushing up against other people that sometimes it becomes easier to understand. Is that something you use in your practice?
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Or, yeah, definitely. Sometimes it is through the contrast that we start to notice our own values.
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And you're absolutely right, having a clear grip on our own values, we're more grounded in conversations. But it's also okay to be clear and have a grip and be grounded in the fact that you're not sure about something.
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That's okay too, you know, being able to grapple, but you know, to keep on with this wonderful practical example that you brought up of you know, what if your teenager comes to you and voices an opinion viewpoint that you know you frankly find jarring, disturbing and horrifying, you know, but you don't want to send them away just correctly, assuming that you don't understand, and with the idea that you don't want to understand, how they got this idea in their head, I think you can be transparent about the fact that you disagree. Okay, because your teenager probably knows it already. That's part of the reason why they're bringing it up in the first place. On some level, probably because that is part of that healthy individuation process of teenagers where they want to establish their own identity, and that's okay, but I think it's important to not really have the dialog center on the fact that you disagree, you know, you can just, depending on the nature of the relationship, you can just say like, well, Suzy, I'm sure it's no surprise to you that I, you know, don't see it that way, but I would love to learn more about you and why and how you see it this way.
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You know. Tell me how. Tell me, what are the top five reasons to be communist, you know, in your view, and where did you hear about this, and when you first heard about it? Were you taking it back? Did you go through a process, or did this just immediately appeal to you? You know, just almost Rachel, I know, I believe you're a former BBC journalist, right? So you have really great, strong interview skills, and so maybe we could all pretend we're Rachel Richards for a moment, you know, and just kind of interviewing somebody, as opposed to, you know, trying to change their mind right away. I sometimes think of like holding sand, you know, how the. Tighter you hold it, the more it's going to slip away, the more that we argue, sometimes with a teenager or anybody, the more that they feel compelled to defend and harden their position, the more they feel they would lose face if they capitulated so avoiding to turn it into, you know, debate at Oxford type feeling and more into just a question of, how much can I learn about why my teenager thinks this, how they came to feel this way, just turning it into a learning expedition while also being you can be you know more as a side background fact that you don't see it that way, But that's not the point of the conversation.
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I love that.
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And you do actually talk about that in your book, about this kind of the value of reflective listening, that listening to them and actually not saying, my job is to change their mind, my job is to understand. And I think that's such a valuable thing to hold in our heads when we're talking or listening to our teenagers. Are there other skills, because we've all done this where we've started saying something, you think, no, no, or I know the answer to this, and you want to jump in. Are there ways that we can marshal techniques or things that will help us in those moments to be
00:23:19.539 --> 00:24:11.619
better, definitely, and you actually mentioned an important one there that I want to just unpack for a second, and then I'll add in a couple more. But you mentioned reflective listening, which is so important. So if you do, you know, ask your teenager those questions I mentioned, and they hopefully give you some kind of a response you can, depending on your teenager, you can either just simply reflect it back and just say Ah, so you're saying X, Y and Z, because A, B and C, just simply reflecting and repeating it back lets them know that you're hearing them, that you're respecting them, and sometimes even hearing their own thoughts, you know, said aloud, will stimulate them to elaborate more. And if you have maybe a little bit more of a persnickety teenager that's like, why aren't you just repeating what I say?
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You can say, you know? Well, you know what? I just really want to make sure I heard you correctly, so I'm just going to repeat it back to you, just to make sure I truly heard you. And then don't say it back in a way with a tone of voice that conveys disrespect for what they've said. Say it more like you are their secretary and they're the boss, and you're like, Okay, got it, boss, just want to make sure we're doing X, Y and Z, like that. You're just confirming, almost from a deferential perspective, that you've understood them. And if they say, Yeah, that's right, you know, and they're kind of done, and they don't want to say anymore, then you can ask them, okay, well, would you like to hear what I think about this topic? Or if that's not of interest to you, that's okay, you know, give give them permission either way. And if they've elected to ask you to explain what you think, then they'll be a lot more receptive to it than if they feel like it's forced on them. And if you have a really mature teenager, you might consider saying to them, great. I will share with you. But just to avoid any misunderstandings, can I ask you to also recap back to me what I said so that just like I did for you, because when our heart rates go above 100 beats per minute, we actually become cognitively less able to truly even comprehend So just as an exercise to make sure we're not talking past each other. Now, just another simple technique is to challenge yourself when you are listening to that teenager, and this goes even for non controversial topics. This just goes for life in general, challenge yourself to see how many minutes in a row you can listen, and you might be surprised, like I've had times where I've done that and I've only been listening two minutes, and it has felt like 10 minutes.
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And so yes, check on myself, you know, or to challenge yourself to see how many questions in a row that you can ask before you know, you feel like you are compelled to insert your own opinion, because we all know with teenagers, there's a lot going on, they don't even understand what's going on. And so the more we can just interview them and get them to examine their own thought process, which is kind of a sneaky way of doing it, they don't even know that. That's what you're really getting them to do, is that you're getting them to articulate and examine and reflect on their own thought process by getting them to talk about it more deeply.
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We can use these things with colleagues as well. I mean slightly differently, but we can also use these things with our colleagues. But what about this fear that because you sat and listened to them and you've repeated it back to them, then it does seem like compliance, like you said, you started out by saying, Well, I don't really agree, but actually, then the conversation ends, so you can feel very uncomfortable that you have you've somehow witnessed something that you didn't like.
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Did you have any ways you can help us with that?
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Yeah, so I think it's. There's something I also share in the book called thought replacements, and so you know, you can just kind of repeat inside to yourself if you start to worry on some level that that it's becoming confusing to even to you because you're going through what feels like a behavior that you might normally associate with, with agreeing with someone. You're being agreeable, but you are not agreeing, right? You can say to yourself, you know, listening does not mean agreeing, or, you know, I am practicing my listening skills. You know you can say those things to yourself inside of your head to just remind yourself. Or, as I said as well, you can repeat to yourself, being agreeable does not mean agreeing. And, you know, you can just periodically even say something like, Well, that's very interesting, you know, again, I It's interesting to hear your perspective, because what you're doing then is you're subtly cueing the person that this is not your perspective. You're continuing to hear their perspective.
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Yes, and I saw there was a quote in your book which said that research participants who were listened to carefully shows activation in the ventral stratum, which is a key part of the brain's reward system, and it's like enjoying a cocktail or winning at gambling, which I think is amazing, because you're actually able to give them this high, this, you know, pleasure from actually being listened to, which is an easy win as a parent. It
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is so true.
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It is so true. And thank you for for highlighting that part of the book. I think, I think the next line you know is, is something you know, again, to the effect of saying it's, it's almost like, like you're giving them a good drug, and that good drug is you, right? So, yes, yes, yeah, they'll, they'll want more of that, right? People pay a lot of money coming to therapists just to be listened to. Now, I think good therapy does more, you know, obviously, than just just listening and validating. But before a good therapist can even attempt to make a real intervention on somebody they first have to truly understand, like, even if I'm listening to say a client that is seeing little green men, the first thing I'm I'm not going to do is to say, the little green men aren't there.
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You know, you're wrong. I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say, Okay, well, so tell me, when did they first appear? What did they say to you? Do they tend to come out at certain times more than others? What are they like? What are their attitudes like? This doesn't mean I agree that the little green men are there, but I'm going to learn as much as I can about what this delusion represents, and that will not only allow me to know the client better, it will empower me to choose the most effective way when the time is right to start trying to dismantle that delusion, but I don't hit them over the head with it just, you know first thing, Right? So yeah. And all the while of listening and building rapport, yes, you're also activating the the feel good part of their brain, they're going to start to associate you as being somebody that it literally feels good to talk to. And what parent doesn't want to establish that dynamic right with their child?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you have other members of the family coming for Christmas, for example, and you know that Uncle George has a deeply offensive opinion too from everybody else, how would you lay the stage to make sure that that it's a, it's an it's a happy dinner. And, I mean, do you just say, right? Let's not talk about any of this stuff at all. Or do we find ways that we can navigate
00:30:51.259 --> 00:32:06.819
this? You know, I think every family is different, so I try to refrain from, you know, extreme black and white roles. But, you know, I again, feel more dialog, not less, is usually helpful. So, you know, you, you, you, you could, for example, say, Look, when we're actually at the Christmas dinner table, you know we're going to, you know, just avoid again. I don't like the idea of saying we're going to avoid talking about any quote, power, doesn't it? Yes? Because, yeah, it just it. It really doesn't feel practical. Because, you know, everything has on some level to do with politics. You know, we're talking about social values, like I said, abortion, immigration, violent crime, statistics, trans issues, you know, male issues, issues with men. I mean, education, like everything, on some level, comes down to politics. So I would avoid telling anybody what they cannot talk about. But if you do want to steer the conversation.
00:32:02.779 --> 00:32:48.619
Yourself. What you could do with Uncle George, so to speak, the proverbial Uncle George, is do a little homework. Come up with five or six topics that you know he loves to talk about. So, you know, maybe he's into fishing, maybe he met somebody new, you know, whatever, he's taking a trip somewhere special next year. Come up with five or six good topics that you know he loves to talk about, and then deliberately ask and raise those topics up frequently so that you're not saying don't think about pink elephants, which only causes the person to think about pink elephants. You're just trying to tantalize him into other topics.
00:32:49.940 --> 00:33:22.899
Love that. Love it. And for my daughter, for example, the one who's gone up to Oxford, if, if she's in a situation where she just doesn't know, there are a lot of very strong opinions there, as you can imagine, if she's in any given situation, how would you advise her to navigate a social situation where she just doesn't know whether they're going to be very strong opinions there that might she might trip up on? Are there any tips you can give her a new a teenager going up to university? Yeah.
00:33:22.898 --> 00:34:02.959
I mean, I think again, it's helpful to understand, and this is a big life lesson for every teenager and for every adult too, which is that everybody doesn't have to like you, you know. So you know, if, if, if you know, she's standing around with a group of you know girls, and you know a few of the girls are seeing an opinion as if it's a complete and total fact. She has a few choices, like, if it's one that she really disagrees with, she can either say like, well, you know what? I see it differently.
00:33:59.298 --> 00:34:25.178
You know, happy to unpack it if you all want to or not, you know, and knowing that they might choose to not hang out with her. But then she can ask herself, well, do I really want to hang out anyway with people that can't tolerate a diversity of opinions, right? So she can also frame it that way. She can say, well, you know, I like a diversity of opinions, you know.
00:34:21.518 --> 00:34:25.178
So I see the issue a few ways.
00:34:25.178 --> 00:34:37.978
We can talk about it more than one way. Or she can try to just focus on scanning the group to see if other people you know view it differently. Maybe you know, just keep a neutral face.
00:34:38.638 --> 00:35:33.358
But what I would really not suggest is to smile and laugh at jokes that indicate that you know you agree with the target of, you know, the joke that the mean spiritedness of the joke when you really don't, I so you can actively disagree. You can try to be neutral and keep your eyes out for other people that might be seeing differently, but really avoid, you know, pantomiming as if you view something a way that you really don't. And I would also encourage that if for whatever reason in a classroom setting, whatever she just feels she cannot speak up because it's going to hurt her grade or whatever, I would encourage her that she really should at least journal privately talk to you or friends or whomever, privately about what she really thinks.
00:35:29.459 --> 00:36:54.978
Because when we pretend to have certain viewpoints that we really don't believe it or not, we can actually trick our own brain. It's called repression, and then it goes into suppression, and it goes into denial, where we don't even fully understand ourselves, and that's why we've all had this situation where somebody says, Are you mad? You're acting really upset, and we're like, I'm fine. And deep down, we know we're not fine, but we don't even honestly know what's bothering us, and we it's because we pushed it down so far that we have to, like, literally stop and pull it out of ourselves to figure out, like, what did I push down? And so for her to or any university student that is in a situation where they do feel like they have to repress and suppress a lot, make sure you unpack it, whether through friends or on paper or whatever, because that's what abusers like to do is they like to get the victim isolated. And that's why, when victims are coming out of an abusive situation, they want to tell the stories over and over again of what happened, because they're processing something that they had previously pushed down to the point where they normalized it. And so we just don't want that to happen, you know, with our own viewpoints and our own values. So even if she can't talk about it right then and there, you know, make a note and talk about it later, is what I would suggest.
00:36:56.179 --> 00:37:48.438
I love that. I think journaling is very powerful and unpacking ideas, and, like you said, just actually having words for the things we've been seeing and you've been feeling, I. Um, and then in the workplace. I mean, one of the things I have said to my kids is, if you don't really know where you're at, one of the best things is just asking questions, because it's quite defensive in a way, you're showing an interest in them. So people, very often, if they've got strong opinions, will like to talk anyway, but it just means that you have an opportunity to unpack what they're saying, rather than having, I think there's so much pressure on social media and the world that our kids are growing up in to have an opinion that sometimes they don't even quite know yet, and then they think, Oh, I've got to pick. I've got to pick. So I do think the asking the questions can be so helpful in easing them through a situation. What are your thoughts on that?
00:37:48.440 --> 00:38:48.199
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it's really the mark of a scholar as somebody who can say, I don't know, right. Like it's, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. The most erudite professors are, you know, or any like, even extreme expert is very clear about what is their expertise and what is outside of their scope of expertise. So I do think it's important to almost glamorize for them the ability to say, I don't know, you know, because that really is a special skill to be able to say, I don't think I know enough to have an opinion about that yet, you know. But I would love to learn more. Tell me more about your opinion and why you think that way. You know, if somebody, if you're feeling pressured, you know, to an ex, to express an opinion and go with the herd. You know, people always love to share their own opinions, so inviting them to share kind of takes the pressure off you, but also, you know, allows you to be more and more comfortable with the fact that we don't have to have an opinion about everything.
00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:56.659
I love that glamorizing not knowing love that point. Are there any other things, tips or bits of information you'd like to share with us?
00:38:57.259 --> 00:39:56.119
Yeah, thank you. So you know, I was actually thinking about, you know, this issue of making sure she does find a place to talk. I'm actually starting free online groups for people that want to just talk about the issues of the, yeah, mental health benefits of free speech, as well as all of the techniques in the book. The book has techniques for speaking up as well as for listening when we're, you know, hearing people say stuff that is, you know, a little jarring, learning how to listen. So, you know, people can come to free speech today.com and at free speech today.com they can order the book, they can connect with me on social media, and they can indicate if they want to, potentially just for free, join in, because I'm very interested in this topic myself. I went through my own free speech journey that I share in the book, and so I just really want to talk to more and more people about all of this stuff, so I invite them to come and talk with me in my group if they want.
00:39:57.139 --> 00:40:14.559
I love that. I think this, I mean, I brought you on because I'm feel passionately about this, this topic, and I think that for all of us, we're all better off if people are able to say what they think, because if we don't agree with it, at least we have the chance to disagree openly. And that's got to
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:18.519
be a good thing, right? Rachel, that's right. Thank you, yeah.
00:40:18.940 --> 00:40:34.800
Dr Chloe, thank you so much for joining us. It's been an absolute pleasure. If you found this useful, do it now. Send this to anybody that might find it useful themselves, whether it's another parent, whether it's someone in your workplace, one of your kids.
00:40:31.619 --> 00:41:00.679
Just let's spread this message about having the opportunity to say what we genuinely think and having open discussions about things. You can find my substack on teenagersuntangled substack.com you can find my website at www.teenagersuntangled.com and email me your questions or any other things that you'd like to say at teenagersuntangled@gmail.com That's it for now. Big hug from me. Thank you. Dr Chloe, have a great week about you, too. Bye.
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