Transcript
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Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Hi
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there. I'm Suzy Asli mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician and mother of three teenagers two of them are twin.
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Now Suzy, how do you feel about telling your kids about the sex, drugs and rock and roll in your past?
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There was any luck. I've led quite a it's been a flavorful pass. But it I didn't really push any of those boundaries too much. Well, we had a listener ask us to help her because when she was in her 20s, a man broke into her home and raped her.
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Very, very traumatic. And it will have had a defining impact on her. And she's now has tweens. And she's beginning to think about how she should approach it with them. She's unusual because she's a public figure in her country. And what happened is actually on record.
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Oh, wow. So at some point, they may well stumble on that information, regardless of whether she wants to tell them or not. This is this is out
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there. Right. So she feels like she wants to tell them before they read it. Yeah.
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And so
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she wanted us to talk about this. I think it's an excellent topic to research because, look, there are a lot of parents who've done things like drugs, smoking, underage sex theft. They'll have had things done to them. So let's talk about this. First of all, let's talk about nuggets. And what have you got for us today?
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Well, I have a lovely nuggets, I think, which is it was half term here last week. So it's just my twins at home. Now one of the one of my kids is at uni. And one of the twins was away on a school trip.
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And the other one was not. So it was my daughter, and we went to Bruges for the weekend. Which is lovely. It's so pretty. It's so lovely. And it was really lovely. I mean, we get on really well. Anyway, but we just kind of pootled around. It was so nice. And the nugget maybe is is all of it. But it was you know it was we had dinner together.
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And suddenly when you're on we get on really well. But suddenly you're spending all your time together and doing things and eating and all the meals is very different from rattling around at home together, isn't it? And so I said we're at dinner tonight. I've got some questions. I'd found them online ages ago and had wanted to use them and had never
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that would strike fear into my heart as a teenager. She was like, yeah, oh, great. Okay, she's
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like, Oh, I've seen someone Tech Talk to let's let's do that, really. So we had dinner. And we asked each other questions, and it was so lovely.
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It was so much fun, like really random things and really personal things. And it was just really nice. So I highly recommend, I
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love that Google Wow, I'm better because I did that with my teens when they turned double digits. And that was incredible. But what a lovely bonding experience to do that later on. I did that with my daughter when she had just finished her GCSE. So this in summer, this time last year, because mine are a year apart in school age. And it does your your relationship has changed.
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And it's a much more is a lovely to do those gear shifts, even if you can't afford to go away just to do something where you shift gears and you go Oh, my You know, we have a different relationship now. I love that.
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That's
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Thank you. She did she did my makeup one evening.
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And just stuff like that. And also she's she likes she really likes history. But she's not, you know, he doesn't want to spend too long. So we did lots of things quickly.
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Perfect.
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Perfect. Right. So that's the church. And that's
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exactly right now, waffles again.
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So mighty nugget is actually I was listening to therapists called Laurie Gottlieb. And she was talking about people turning up to speak to her, particularly men, and telling her things that they thought were weird and shameful. And she says The thing is, most people have experienced the things that they're talking about. But they don't know that that's normal, until they come to me. And it made me think again, about something that's been happening a lot with teens.
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When I talk to teenagers. I often find that when they say something to me, or they asked me a question, what they really want to know is, am I normal?
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Yeah. Am I weird? And they, because there's an awful lot on social media about being divergent in any way, you know, and they're all kind of figuring out their identities. Am I this?
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Am I that what you know, Where do I sit in this? But I think the most the thing that really underpins all of this is am I normal? Yeah. And we know that normal is a very broad spectrum.
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No one's normal. And I think I think the really the thing we can do is parents is to be able to let our kids know that it's normal to think about a lot of the things that people think about. Yeah. And they're not broken. And they're, they're not strange and have those conversations with them. And when they tell you something, just say, actually say, you know, that's pretty normal.
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Yeah, that's kind of I've had that thought or, you know, I know people generally think that. I love
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that. And that's a brilliant, that's brilliant. And I use that quite a lot in my with my clients, especially to you. Yes, yeah, yes, they come thinking they've, that, you know, that this, they've been told they've got anxiety and all of these things. And one of the first things I say to them, as you know, you know, having anxious thoughts is completely normal. Yes, you are not broken, there's nothing wrong with you, and you just see their shoulders go,
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oh, really, what's really vulnerable is one to one with someone you really care about opening up about something you've been worrying about. And actually, I think that's one of those very special spaces that we can have with our kids. Or, you know, because I often think they don't talk about some of those very vulnerable things with their own friends, because it feels to
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know and they're often full of shame on these things. And shame thrives in secrecy. Yes,
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exactly. So coming back to this question about what we talked to our kids about Georgina, I put this up on social media. And Georgina says that if it's going to help them, yes, of course, it's good to know that they're not the only one to feel that way, which is what we've just been saying. But she said, just you have to be selective. There are many things we do not want to know about our parents. I'm with you there.
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Yeah. 100%. And yet, actually, she was lovely. She said, Look, I suffered domestic violence in a previous relationship. And she said her kids that didn't actually, they haven't actually asked about it, and about why she left the her previous partner, but they're in contact with him. And she said, the thing is, I don't want to have any impact on their relationship. But if they did ask me, I think I would be honest about it. So it's a really interesting one. And I think she's not hiding. But what she's doing is she's, she's been careful, because she doesn't want to impact them in a way that wouldn't help them. And I think that's a really, really good way of jumping off into this topic. Because the question is, why is this coming up? And what why are we actually going to talk about this? And the most important factor is how we share that information now have they asked, because most of the time, the kids will come and ask you when they're ready.
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Yeah. And I guess it depends on what the topic is, doesn't it? Because there's there's the whole topic of you know, Mom, did you drink? do drugs? Sure. Do that kind of stuff as a kid? And then the topic you're talking about now, you know, that's a relational thing that maybe is much more recent, and is very different in nature. There are different topics.
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Yes, they are.
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And I'll deal with the sort of the the more serious things later in the episode, I think, let's go over some of the stuff that is more common, which is so you know, first of all, had the kids asked if they've asked that it's not about you, really, they're actually asking because they're probably thinking about how do I steer my way through this? Is it okay, if I do this, they're going to be looking for information? Yes,
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it is what it is?
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Yes, yes.
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You know, and they, they will they quite often, it's that they see that you've got certain values, and they're testing them, then you're trying to say, well, you know, you say that this is where it is, but have you ever it's
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like a permission slip, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. If you've done it, then then I can go to
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an extent and it's not about you. It's literally if they asked you this question. That will it can be because what they can be what often they're trying to do is they're trying to connect with you, you are the to their parents are the most important people in their lives. And so they will want to there's a point of which they're trying to connect more with you trying to understand you like, how did you get where you are, they can't ask a lot of these questions of other adults, right? Because they can ask them mates, but their mates only know what they know, when they know it, or what they're getting from social media, what they can't get it from other adults, unless there are other adults. Okay, so. So the question you've got to think is what's most beneficial or important for my kids to know what details might be inappropriate or scary or too personal? And are there things I just don't want them to know?
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And these are things to think about before it crops up. So my point is, if you have a set of values, and then you think actually I didn't really do those things when I was young, like I used to smoke, or I was a real heavy drinker, whatever it was, you know, that that is a thing that you did. And so the thing to do is think about at what point would I tell them and what would I tell them and do it do it ahead of time, so you don't have to struggle when they first asked you? Yes, they probably will. Yeah,
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probably. Don't lie because that's going to always come out eventually. And then then that's really bad.
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100% Yeah, honesty is absolutely critical.
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They have a bullshit radar, they do
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find out and then your trust is tricky. Yes.
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And they're looking for data points. They want to know, do your current rules and values match up. And it's okay, if they don't, they're not the same, right?
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Because what you can do is how you explain the world to them.
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Each child is different, you may not be able to do it with both kids at the same time, you're not going to sit down and have some conference about it, or you might, but you'll find that it will come at different stages.
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And it depends on the child.
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Yeah,
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I think I've had I've been asked questions like that with everybody, and then having to filter the response.
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Yeah, is interesting. The younger one is listening. Yeah, it does make a difference.
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Doesn't
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make a difference, right. And here's it, there's a good joke about a little girl who comes home one day, and says to her mother, Sarah told me where she came from. And the mother thinking her daughter is referring to how babies are made launches into an elaborate discussion of sex, and reproduction, and the girl with her jaw drops. There's mommy, Sarah came from Australia. So the point is kind of hard to know what they're actually asked. Yes. All right. Don't assume that when they're asking you a question, that you really know why. So using curious, just being curious. Yeah, we talked about this before the curiosity over the judgement,
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question back our skin.
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Because that can stall it a little bit. But don't look like you're stalling.
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Just being genuinely interested.
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So you can say, I'm so impressed that you're thinking about these issues, you can compliment them on it, and then say, what made you think about this right now?
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And, you know, do you think about like, do they actually want chapter and verse? Or is this just an idle question that popped into their head? Are they looking for roles? Are they looking to connect? So try and suss out what it is they're looking for before you start launching into any of this?
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Because you don't want to? You don't want to over deliver? And then answer the question directly. because it demonstrates respect for them.
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You say? So here's the answer to that, with whatever you're prepared to say. Yeah. And what it does is it teaches them to be open. And to trust us. Even when you don't you think
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100% I think the Trust is everything. And we don't that doesn't mean we can't filter out there replies. But we put Yeah, trusting is is absolutely crucial. So at
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each time, they asked you a question like this, what they're really saying is, can I come to you and ask you things that maybe are a bit awkward. I mean, my kids have asked me some very awkward thing. Yeah. And you know, and I, I, I've delivered the goods, because I've said to them, I will always answer your questions. I may not give you the detail that you think you deserve. Because there's a generational barrier, and I'm your mother, and some things wouldn't be appropriate. But I will definitely answer your question as honestly, as I as I see fit.
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Yeah. I think the one where I think it's difficult is, is when if they ask about drugs, and if and things like that, and if if you have done a lot of drugs, and obviously think maybe that wasn't a great idea, or you don't want your kids to, because I do think things like that they we've talked about this before in other episodes, they it is a little bit permission slippy.
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Yes, absolutely. And when they are faced over a decision, you know, whether to or not, because they will be offered at the back of their minds. If they know that we did, then way more likely to go on Monday, they must be right. Yes, she's fine.
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It's, it's that's the one where I go or not that I particularly did at all. But if that is the case, and maybe alcohol is in the same bracket, but it's not quite as
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well, I'd like to address that. I think it's really good that you raised that because first of all, we did do an episode on drugs. If this is something you will be touched with, definitely listen to the episode because we spent a lot of time talking and thinking about this. But you know, parents hands are tied. If you lie, you put your entire relationship on the line. If you complain, you run the risk of showing your kid that it's fine to try these things. So here's what I was thinking about this because President Obama had a conversation with a group of at risk kids in Chicago about his drug use, okay. And he explained to them that when he was their age, he didn't have a dad in his house. He was angry about it.
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And he didn't realise it at the time, but he made some really bad choices. And so it's not the doing thing so much as what we think about what we did and why we did it, and how we process it now. So I think if you're going to go there and say yeah, I tried drugs, you need to frame it in a way that makes it clear that that was not like you No, just go and have no time. And an interesting one that we did actually mention in the drugs episode was that drugs have changed significantly and much.
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So the strength, exactly strength of marijuana is much more potent than it was in the 70s. There's this fentanyl and drugs now, you know, these, they don't know what necessarily what they're getting? No, it's very different. Yeah. And so I really think we need to, I think it's brilliant that you brought that up, because we need to frame it in a way where we can say, it's not fair. But actually, I really I look back, okay, here's a great example. My daughter, I'm teaching her how to drive. And while he was driving, we were, we were we were picking up speed, we've got to 30 miles an hour in this area, which is an open road. And I said to you, anyone can drive it fast. It's actually navigating around the small country lanes and the parked cars and everything. And then I stopped and I said, I'm going to tell you a story. When I had learned to drive I had borrowed, my mother had this really underpowered van is a small van for delivering furniture. And I borrowed it, because I'd had to run an errand. And I was on a Lincolnshire Country Road, which are super long and straight. And you can see for miles, and I decided I was going to overtake the car in front of me. So I pulled out. And this van just didn't accelerate. And it was just showing this, this car was coming right at me. And right at the last minute, I tucked back in because there's a side of me that I'm going to do, I'm going to do, I'm going to, and I tucked back in. And I said to her, I've never lost the fear that I had that day where I thought that could have been at different results. That was a really stupid thing to do. Well.
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So my point is, is sometimes telling these stories can really help our kids, I can guarantee she's not going to actually pull out in an under because it can be really helpful to them to hear that you did some really stupid stuff. And you look back and think oh, yeah, do I remember it? Yeah, that's
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a really good point.
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And there's a difference between being honest.
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And being evasive, which is dangerous, because they can tell you're being evasive, then they're going to think, oh, what you're not telling me. But you can delay. Yeah, you can do it.
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So you can say, You know what, I? I don't really know how to explain or answer that question right now. Can we come back?
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Maybe? Can we talk tomorrow lunchtime? Or can we just say to them? It's not that I'm, I'm not going to talk to you about it.
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But I haven't really thought about it. In the meantime.
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We have to be a bit careful, I guess in that because in their heads, they're going whoa, what did they do?
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Absolutely. What's the story that's trying to decide? Yes,
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they will. They will think that, but it's about it's the question is, Is this more damaging than actually saying something to them? That isn't right, it's not quite so and we lose that
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having time to think is often a really valuable thing to choose. And
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also, what you're doing is you're teaching your kids that this is what they can do. So you know, this is the women living this culture. I kick talk to my kids about this all the time, where as soon as they opened a message, they have to respond. And I kept saying no, you don't. And they said no.
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You haven't you don't understand you do not understand mom. And I keep trying to say to them, No, don't, don't you just hold back.
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It's okay. Just say, Oh, am I I'm just thinking about our message you.
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My daughter was trying to teach her twin brother that the other day was she Yeah.
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And she was crying. You know?
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She was she was telling me that she had said to him, you know, you have just talked to him, you know, just, you don't have to reply immediately. Just you know, that's it. It's time.
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It's like a burning hole, isn't it? And you notifications off? Yes.
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I love it.
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She's got it. She's really clicked. It's great, isn't it?
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The question is also, can we be nonspecific? So I've got this great friend who's really brutal. She's a surgeon. And her her approach to everything is really hardcore. And her she's very open with her kids about a lot of things. But then she draws a line and she said, My kids have asked me whether I did this with their dad. And I said, that wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell you, but I can tell you what most adults do. Okay, which I thought that's a nice kind of take dainty sides out.
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Yeah, it's a dainty sides. It's like I am not going to tell you that I know. Because I know I've talked to lots of adults. You know I've dealt with this. So I'm going to tell you what people do think I'm gonna borrow so use one isn't it? It's useful. Yeah. So you can sidestep and unexplained that it's not because some things are you know, come on. That's not really your business. And sometimes we some of us have kids who love pressing our buttons. Yeah. Okay, so let's not pretend that this doesn't happen. So I'm
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sitting here thinking, I'm thinking I've got off got away lately. I haven't been
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done. Oh, I've just No, I have me come on. So we've talked about drugs. And then interestingly, the coming back to the drugs, the substance. So it's a catchily named website that I went on to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, which is the agency within the US Department of Health Services. So how they put it as they say, Don't let your past Stop stop you from talking to your child about underage drinking, for example, if you drank as a teenager, just be honest. Yeah. But tell them I knew it. I know. It was risky. I wasn't thinking clear. I wasn't thinking clearly at the time.
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And here are the risks. Yeah.
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And this is what happened to me.
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And I was lucky. Yeah, I was lucky. But you might not be Yeah. And and I look back with horror. Yeah.
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So you can really kind of they get a gauge of who we were. And we were young, didn't they? So if you say something that doesn't ring true, they're like, no, no. So
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yeah. And the problem with giving too much information, just to sort of dwell on that for a minute is that you risk parents vacation.
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That's a word that came up in I think, in the 60s. And it's this where your kids end up sort of parenting you where they you've, you open up on something that feels really, it's it's too much information, and then they suddenly the role is flipped, particularly if you then say, oh, and then I was really upset about it, and then this happened, and you've given them too much information, they you still need to be their parent.
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Yeah, I think it's really interesting topic, actually. Because you can spread it out, can you to sort of more emotional stuff. Like my kids recently have been asking me about how my parents were with me. And I've been quite honest with them. So very honest. And that's really helpful and useful, and, and their grandparents are still alive.
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And they see them regularly. And they've, you know, have a great relationship. But it helps them to understand some of my choices I have with them and how I am.
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And I think that's really, really useful. But there's still a filter within that as well, because, you know, it's their grandparents as well.
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I think it's really empowering, because it's also I will say to them, I think I've been getting this wrong, and here's why. Yes. And it's not that, you know, I my parents were terrible people. It's just that I had this upbringing, and then I've been trying to do this to fix it. And I'm very sorry, yeah, it's not, it's not you, it's actually me. And it's me because of this. And then they can understand, they see, they get depth to human relationships, and they have context. And it's not about black and white, and this person is good. And this person's bad.
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And you're wrong. And you're you know, it's I think it's really
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fun. And I can almost see it with them, like they ask, and it's not just about my childhood, but you know, things I did or things that were happened. And you kind of really see them listening, and they suddenly see you in a different light. It's like when when the first time they realised that you are, you know, you're not, you're not just their mum that you maybe have a job. Or you do other stuff, they kind of Oh, yeah, that's really good for them. Yes, it
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is good for them and always knowing that you are their parents, so your job is to be their parent. But so for example, telling them the love stories, I told my girls about my great romances, which happened before my heart not not that my husband isn't romantic.
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But you know, the romances that I had, and the ups and downs and what I got wrong and what I learned from them, and all those discussions can really help them think oh, okay, okay, it's not that easy. And yes, that's fine.
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You know, I'm getting it wrong.
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And, and also that, for me, the real relationships didn't happen till way later than a lot of these kids
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know. So checking organisations with mine have maybe been about their dads.
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Yes.
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And that's very hard, and that you have to really put, you know, baby steps around. Yeah, man,
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they've asked me some, you know, very honest questions, and I've ended up telling them the truth. And they didn't always like it. But I did it in a way that was, I think, and I'm pretty sure now is, is, you know, good. And it's been fine. And it wasn't such a big thing. But yeah, I had to really think about what what what do I want to answer? So the topic is,
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I want to dwell on that. Because I think actually, when it comes to separations and talking about that stuff, it's very, very hard. Because I've been in that situation, my husband's been in that situation. And I think every time there that question comes up the quite the answer has to be around, how do I demonstrate to my kids that there isn't a right and a wrong, but that people behave in certain ways together and they don't work? And it's not good and I had to set our boundary, you know, I think it's about how do you solve things that aren't working? Yeah,
00:24:51.779 --> 00:25:39.029
it is. It is. But there are actually some some questions they can ask that are difficult because they want to know often not always what they want. Often wants to know, you know why? Yes. Because, you know, for, for years, there's a hope in their heads isn't there that will maybe, maybe this will work out differently in the long run. You know why, and if there's been, you know, something that has been, you know, really difficult and an accident or infidelity or abuse or that kind of thing, and they asked you, you know, direct question around it, that's really difficult to navigate very difficult. Yes, to both be honest, and not shock them. And yeah, to get that balance, and they also have a relationship with with the other parents afterwards. All of that is, is a tricky balance, very tricky,
00:25:39.028 --> 00:27:01.048
and, you know, power to you for navigating it, because it is really, really hard. And it's never one and done. No, you never explained something and then everybody's happy. And you're gonna have to keep going in there. Because what if you explain something, watch them, because they'll be taking it in and they may go, oh, yeah, and then walk off. Or they may just be thinking, Oh, okay. Because what every time you tell them something, it's going to shift that needle to their better understanding of something about you. And and they may want to come back in again. So letting them know that you know, okay, you can ask more questions if you want. It's important coming on to the rape experience. You know, that's that's a proper trauma. And it's interesting because I was listening to Jon Ronson talking about culture wars. And he interviewed the man who wrote the Bessel Vander Kolk, who wrote the body keeps score that was a best seller during lockdown. And, and the word trauma has become used in so many scenarios that Vander Kolk is horrified by because he says it's, it's really demeaning to the people who genuinely suffered, you know, rape or been through a war zone, or, you know, it's kind of, we have to be careful with the use of these words, we
00:27:01.049 --> 00:27:02.519
have to just be clear how you define it.
00:27:02.609 --> 00:27:05.940
Correct. Yeah.
00:27:02.609 --> 00:27:30.269
And, but that is really as trauma that this person is going through. And the thing about trauma is you don't, you don't, it doesn't treatment doesn't make it go away. It just makes you reach a place where your trauma no longer dominates your life. And, and it's incredible this, this woman has talked about it publicly, it's it's out there, I actually found another writer who talked about her own situation because she was raped.
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:34.740
And then they didn't find the person. And she moved countries, she remarried. She's very happy.
00:27:34.740 --> 00:29:13.829
She's got kids, one was 12 and other was younger. And then suddenly, they contacted her and said, We found your rapist by DNA. And she ended up having to go through the entire court case with her family set up the way it was. And as you can imagine, that will have dragged dragged up every single thing that she had struggled with in the past that she probably didn't want to have to deal with again, but she did. Gosh. And I think what's what's really important is this kind of the sharing information can't be to alleviate your own distress. So you have to have dealt with it yourself. Before you can start talking about those sorts of things to a child, or one of your children as you can. Yes. And this particular woman said that, you know, things actually were happening around them where she was having to go to court cases she was they were having to cancel things, they had to stop going to certain places. And she realised that the way to frame it was to talk about the positives of it. So for example, with her situation was yes, a bad thing happened. But look at what we're doing. Look at, look at how good stuff happens. And, and I think she said two years later, when her son was 14, after the case after he was convicted, she her son asked her for more details. And it wasn't about the crime. It was about the relationships and how it has impacted their life. And she was honest with him and told him and he said he was very grateful that she waited, because it would have been harder when he was younger. So that's a really interesting point. Again, he was ready because he asked her maybe
00:29:13.829 --> 00:29:20.339
got Yeah, I was gonna say going back to your original thing. Have they asked you why did they ask you? Why are you giving this information?
00:29:20.369 --> 00:29:35.279
And then if you've got something really traumatic like that, in your past, I would always frame it in a in a way like yes, this happened. But here I am surviving here. I've made this for myself. This is because we are products of everything that happened to us. Yeah. And
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:43.589
children worried and if they were yes, they want to keep us safe as well. They want us to be safe so that they can we can be there for them. Yes.
00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:43.589
tricky balance. Yes.
00:29:44.038 --> 00:29:50.489
So I think in her situation, wait until they come to you to ask about it. If
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:54.059
that's not possible, but yeah, if you can,
00:29:54.210 --> 00:30:19.619
yeah. I mean, the bottom line is whatever you choose to tell your child explain your current value values. So your rules, your goals, you know, we're in context so that they can, it's a chance to reinforce here's how I really think now, as a person who's grown up an adult, you know, and so yes, okay, I might have done this, that and that when I was a kid, but I didn't have those values there. Now I know. I'm not stupid anymore.
00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:19.619
Right.
00:30:19.709 --> 00:30:30.808
And I think a lot of the questions they ask and think for my kids anyways, is curiosity is like, yeah, they know who we are. Yeah. What did you used to be? Like? It's like looking at old photos, isn't it?
00:30:27.479 --> 00:30:30.808
Oh, my God, look at your hair.
00:30:30.808 --> 00:30:33.148
And you know, what did you used to do? What were your hobbies?
00:30:33.148 --> 00:30:37.259
Like? Who were you? Before you became my boring old mum, it
00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:49.740
adds depth to their story. Yeah, it makes them something they like, oh, because my kids love telling people. I was born in Africa. You know, but there's the sort of, I think I'm a something percent African.
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.740
I said, No, you're not.
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:54.059
But when they were young, it was really a big thing.
00:30:54.089 --> 00:31:08.009
But you know, the experiences I've had have informed the world and the way that I've seen the world. And so yeah, it gives depth to the family history. And the story is interesting. It's interesting.
00:31:05.190 --> 00:31:30.599
Yeah. So that's it. If you found this useful, please send it to at least one person or share it on social media. We love reviews. We love reviews. We love hearing from you. We read everything. We do actually have reviews. But we'll do that next time. If you suggest an idea, we're going to cover it, I promise. Well, potentially, I mean, this was this was this lady contacted us quite some time ago. So I'm very, very sorry. But here it is. Weird
00:31:30.598 --> 00:31:36.749
suggestions we might not do. No, no. Yeah. We're not going to do everything. We're not no, no. I
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mean, there has to be something that we care about. And we like, actually, it's something I care about, or we can you can find our old episodes on www.teenagersuntangled.com. And also sign up for my newsletter there. Suzy, you've been doing some excellent wheels on social media.
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They're really fun.
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They're fun
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to do a bunch of watch. You're doing more with businesses, as well. So if you want to shops
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and businesses and companies courses, it's really fun. Yes.
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So if you need her skills in any way, either for you or for your business, you can reach her at WWW
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