May 27, 2025

144: First love, breakups & LGBTQ. How to support our kids through the turmoil.

144: First love, breakups & LGBTQ. How to support our kids through the turmoil.
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144: First love, breakups & LGBTQ. How to support our kids through the turmoil.
144: First love, breakups & LGBTQ. How to support our kids through the turmoil.

What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover? First love can be immensely powerful; a profound and unforgetable journey that shapes who we are. It teaches us about intimacy, boundaries and heartbreak and as parents it challenges all of our skills and perceptions. In this episode my daughter, Phoebe, offered to talk about her first experience; what it taught her, how it changed her, and what she thinks adults need to understand to support their teen; particu...

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What do you think of this episode? Do you have any topics you'd like me to cover?

First love can be immensely powerful; a profound and unforgetable journey that shapes who we are. It teaches us about intimacy, boundaries and heartbreak and as parents it challenges all of our skills and perceptions.

In this episode my daughter, Phoebe, offered to talk about her first experience; what it taught her, how it changed her, and what she thinks adults need to understand to support their teen; particularly one who is same sex attracted.

What I learned from our experience is that the most important thing is knowing your child is in a kind, honest, loving relationship.

Phoebe reflects on the problems with the long-distance aspect of her relationship, the struggle to gain assertiveness, and the eventual breakup. The conversation also touches on the role of social media, the importance of closure, and the growth Phoebe experienced as a result of her experiences.

TOP BREAK-UP TIPS:

  • Provide time and space for your teenager to process the breakup without pressure.
  • Avoid making judgmental comments about the ex-partner or trying to convince the teenager they are "better off".
  • Support your teenager in finding healthy coping mechanisms, such as focusing on personal goals and interests.
  • Encourage your teenager to set boundaries with the ex-partner, including unfollowing on social media, if needed for the healing process.
  • Recognize that the healing process after a first love breakup can take significant time, often 6 months or more.

Support the show

Thank you so much for your support.

Please hit the follow button if you like the podcast, and share it with anyone who might benefit. You can review us on Apple podcasts by going to the show page, scrolling down to the bottom where you can click on a star then you can leave your message.

I don't have medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.

My email is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com
My website has a blog, searchable episodes, and ways to contact us:
www.teenagersuntangled.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teenagersuntangled/
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/teenagersuntangled/

Susie is available for a free 15 minute consultation, and has a great blog:
www.amindful-life.co.uk

00:00 - First love and parental support

02:18 - Navigating Non-Traditional Relationships

12:28 - Identity and Self-Discovery

18:15 - Impact on Academic and Personal Life

20:26 - Breakup and Healing Process

31:12 - Social Media and Moving On

49:02 - Closure and Moving Forward

49:19 - Reflections on the Relationship

50:14 - Parental Perspective and Support

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:24.620
Rachel, hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teen and tween years. I'm Rachel Richards, parenting coach, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters. Now do you remember your first love, the excitement, the vulnerability, the way your whole world felt like it was expanding and collapsing at the same time, Phoebe is with me.

00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:33.560
You my daughter. We're going to talk about first love breakups, how a parent can support you.

00:00:30.019 --> 00:02:51.699
First love is powerful, and I think for teenagers, it's an emotional storm that shapes how you become, doesn't it? You come out of it a different person. It teaches us about intimacy, boundaries, heartbreak, and who we are when we love and lose them. Now in this episode, we'll talk honestly about your first experience of love, what it taught you have it changed you, and what you think adults need to understand. Yeah. Yeah, right. So first of all, I think what's really interesting about teenagers is, I remember researching how teenagers develop, and this one line where they said, between 10 and 20 is this time when your teenagers become a sexual being. And I thought, oh, no, I don't want it No, just No, because I think I read that when you were quite young, and I think we're not going to talk about sex, but I just think that it's quite a big thing for parents to have to do make that transition, and it's a massive thing for a young person, and It can happen at different ages. I remember you wait you turned to me when you were 16, and you said, Mommy, you know, I'm legal. Oh, no, that was just painful. And I went, Yeah, with a glint in your eye, and no boyfriend on the horizon, anyways. And, and what was really interesting is, when you were little, you would whenever we went into a room and there were sort of cute boys there, you would always flush your eyelashes. You were very flirtatious with them. And I'm putting this out there because you blindsided me, absolutely blindsided me, and and I'm saying this because what happened was Phoebe ended up with a girl, and I'm absolutely nonchalant about who people date, who they have sex with, who they marry, because it's just irrelevant to me, as long as it's a loving, supportive kind relationship. And Phoebe's Godfather is gay. He's been married. He's divorced now, but that was a very long marriage.

00:02:48.879 --> 00:03:01.620
He's very he's a very sort of straight person, but he happens to be gay, and I've got so many gay friends, and I also had lesbian friends when I was at university. So none of this is new to me. We know gay people.

00:03:01.979 --> 00:03:17.879
We know gay people. So I wanted to sort of preamble this, because I think some parents find this very, very they, in spite of the Zeitgeist we're in, they don't really feel comfortable with all of this. So and for kids, it's important that parents understand this, and

00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:21.379
even if you are completely accepting a similar shock, it wasn't

00:03:21.379 --> 00:04:00.960
a shock. It wasn't a shock. I think what happened was Phoebe went away to a debate camp, and you just ended up calling me the person I can say, Oh, I've met this great girl. She's really fun. And it wasn't anything. Was just, you know that you because you would always let me know if you'd met somebody who we found inspiring, and you enjoy the company. And I was so happy. And then when you came back from the debate camp, I could tell that the way you were talking together, yeah. But could you tell 100% you could, yeah? I was kind of holy. That's great. You know, tell me more.

00:03:56.259 --> 00:04:10.800
Tell me more. And, and then at some point I just said, you know that it's fine if you want to have a relationship. Did you need me to say that? Yeah, okay, that's interesting. Talk about that. Well,

00:04:10.800 --> 00:05:22.160
I was really struggling to to kind of work out what I wanted, really, because I knew from from kind of the moment that I met her, that it wasn't, we weren't friends from the start. We weren't really like, it wasn't a friendship vibe, even though, like, we, you know, there was nothing that we were doing which is not like, you know, but, um, but I was really struggling with unpacking that, because it didn't really align with my self perception. So I went through a bit of it, an identity crisis, and and I was kind of going back and forth on though. I mean, there are so many things do I want to ruin this friendship? Do I even bring it up to her? You know, things like that. And then I really, really did need someone else, because I was dealing with all of us alone. I, I, you know, I. Wasn't out, you know, or anything like. My head, I didn't have anyone I could talk to. And then in my mind, I was also like, if this doesn't even go anywhere, is it worth me even kind of outing myself for but when you sat me down and said, You know, it's okay if that is where this is headed, it was definitely very relieving.

00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:22.160
That's very interesting.

00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:25.639
You use the word out, yeah, does that how it felt?

00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:52.300
Well, well no, like I didn't. I didn't sort of come out, like it wasn't. It was more we just had a kind of discussion about my situation that okay, it didn't. I didn't need to make a massive announcement or anything like that, and and I didn't feel like I was exposed or like much had changed about myself. It was more just kind of like, oh, this is a part of me that I didn't realize was there before.

00:05:52.300 --> 00:05:54.399
This is what's so interesting about identity.

00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:58.240
Yeah, sometimes it blindsides.

00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:14.879
We were sort of tootling along thinking with this, and then something changes. And that's actually a very hard thing to do when you co when you're sort of settling into yourself up to a certain age, and I think you did struggle talking to your friends about it, yeah, thinking about talking to your friends about it, maybe

00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:53.439
primarily because I didn't want them to see me in a different way, because I had never, I've never felt romantically to any of my friends, I know there's a massive distinction between sort of Platonic love and, you know, like romantic love. And I really didn't want them to think that, like I never, and I know they wouldn't like I know my mind, but I was just a bit scared that they would treat me differently, or they wouldn't feel comfortable with me in the room if they're changing, for example, or something like that, you know, stuff, you know, just small things, but they were amazing. They were so supportive. And absolutely nothing changed, which is really, you know, yeah, it was lovely. And

00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:59.500
did you feel like, I think we had a conversation about whether you wanted to put a label on it, didn't

00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:44.620
we? Yeah, well, my problem was, is that we so we, we were long distance, so she lived really far away, so we were texting all the time, but it got to the point where it kind of needed to go somewhere, and she wanted to see me. She wanted me to go to, you know, to visit her. And that made me really stressed, because in my mind, I was like, I know that this is not a friendship. I know them. We've been kind of flirting back and forth, and I don't want to come and see you if I'm not confident that that's where I want things to go. It's almost like, yeah, no, absolutely. Because we'd actually been talking for a really long time by this point, I think been like a month or so.

00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:58.480
I didn't know there had been a while, and it felt like I needed to know where my head was at before I visited her. And that's kind of when I came to you, and I was like, I really need help.

00:07:52.300 --> 00:08:08.639
And and it was more basically communication to her, like, Where, where are we going? Like, what? What is this? And it wasn't like, I need a label on this, but sort of, can we acknowledge that this isn't a

00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.220
friendship?

00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:15.360
Yes, yes, yes. And I think she's in a different position, because I think she is very much

00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.740
out Yes, to use that CO Yeah, it's very clear

00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:38.600
that she's not heterosexual, yeah, whereas with you up until that time because of the way you were when you were younger, not for any other reason, I just it didn't even occur to me that you might date a girl. Yeah, wasn't so, which is just surprised me. I mean, nothing more or less than that.

00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:56.139
But it was lovely, yeah, it was a very, very beautiful start to having a first love. Yeah, romantic. You used to write beautiful things to each Yeah, yeah.

00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:02.039
It was lovely, nice. Yeah. I mean, I was absolutely headed for hills. And

00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:36.919
yeah, and I think as a parent, so, so for all the parents who might be listening, who are thinking, Oh, I can't imagine my target, I think what it what really landed for me was this idea that what all I really cared about, all I really cared about, was that you were loved and cherished and and felt safe, and that the person makes you feel better, not worse, because there's all these horrible stories about bad relationships, and I think that's what we we fear. As parents. We want our kids to have good relationships. So when you see your child in a good relationship, you just You're so happy,

00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:45.940
yeah. And I remember, it really was. And I remember looking around, you know, other people my year and their relationships, and thinking, you just don't know.

00:09:45.940 --> 00:10:02.039
You don't know. Yeah, your millionaires, because I felt like we really, really had a connection that other people didn't seem to have. Yeah, we were kind of very, we were very emotionally sort of entwined.

00:09:57.340 --> 00:10:02.039
Yeah. And that had good and bad,

00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:08.940
yes, because you're both female, and so there were ups and downs, but, you know, there's lots of overthinking. So yeah,

00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:10.200
yeah, you weren't regular,

00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:44.259
yeah, but that's normal. I mean, that's normal. I think most young relationships find that very difficult. Anyway, yeah, right, if you think about Yeah. And actually, what was interesting for you was you had seen other friends dating from much younger ages, so you had a picture of what other people's relationships looked like, and girls would tell you how it felt, and you could compare that to the one you were in. And you were very pleased that you were in a such a warm, loving romantic relationship, yeah, which was very nice. Were there any things that people did that didn't help,

00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:47.740
help with what help with?

00:10:47.799 --> 00:11:08.220
And I'm talking just generally about a loving, you know, first loves and relationships are there? Are there tips for parents where you think that wasn't I mean, one thing I remember was a member of our family who, when we mentioned, oh, you know, she's dating this girl, she was, she just basically well, and then she didn't ask your question.

00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:15.779
And it's hilarious, because you knew, we all knew that if you had mentioned a boy that you were dating, she would have been you.

00:11:15.779 --> 00:11:27.740
Yes, she's so excited, so funny. And yeah, it went completely overhead. But I mean, other than that, I think, you know, family wise people don't really, and you

00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:32.240
didn't, you didn't have any comments from people, no, you

00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:43.539
know, obviously great. Soviet personally, yes, yes, which is, I think it's different for girls, yeah, oh, I really agree with that. Do you?

00:11:39.320 --> 00:12:28.519
Yeah, how so I think, I think it's because of the dynamic with fewer relationships and things like that. It's so much easier, you know, to be accepted as like, as a girl who's gay than them, you know, like, especially in my school, for example, I don't know, like with guys tend to be a lot more physical, not to generalize, but I think they are, and there's actually a real physical risk if you know, like, people don't lie to you for your personality, they'll set upon you. And I was like, you know, I mean, I've never experienced any kind of verbal homophobia or anything like that. But then there's no physical risk at all.

00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:28.519
Whereas guys are very like,

00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:36.200
yeah, yeah, yeah. And coming back to the relationship, were there any feelings that sort of surprised you, things that you didn't expect to to feel?

00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:49.299
Um, well, I remember feeling there were times when I felt resentment.

00:12:43.000 --> 00:13:29.840
Why? Well, it was when, because, obviously, again, we were long distance, so we were constantly trying to, you know, we were trying to find times to communicate, like to talk to each other, and then if someone wasn't available to talk, then it would be frustrating. Or if someone had plans, many of you have because, because you have Yes, yeah, but Well, she's older than you, yeah, so she was, yeah, she's a different situation. And yeah, then it would be, it would be, it would be frustrating and that, but then also, I feel like a lot of the resentment that would build up was because I wasn't really voicing that things were upsetting me.

00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:51.759
And I think that one of the problems with young relationships is believing enough in yourself to be able to voice your own feelings and your own expectations and being assertive. And I think some teens are very assertive, but a lot of teens find being assertive in a romantic relationship very difficult.

00:13:52.240 --> 00:14:14.580
Yeah, I would say that's one of the most important things I've learned from this is I need to feel comfortable telling you what I like and what I don't like. You know what? As in, like, something that's upsetting me, I need to be able to tell you, and if you don't like the fact that I don't like that, then we're not the right people for each other. Like, that's, you know, it's just something that's inherent to relationship.

00:14:14.759 --> 00:15:08.279
And I think that's harder when you're even younger. So if kids start dating, I was really glad that you weren't dating until you were seven. Oh, yeah. But if kids start dating when they're 14, or this is really difficult stuff to navigate, and those relationships are still really important to them, so those romantic relationships will will be really big at the time, won't they? Yeah, yeah. What were the things that you learned about yourself from being in a relationship, because I'm sure it must have massively changed your identity. Well, it didn't change your identity. You're still the same person. But what's really interesting is okay from from my perspective, and correct me if I'm wrong, what I saw was somebody who was developed. Very, very strongly or very wise and very mature for your age, and also quite academic, yeah, but you weren't going out to tons of parties.

00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:36.559
You didn't do the whole vaping, smoking, drinking stuff, and you did. You did look over the fence and think, Oh, I'd like to go to more parties. I'd like to whatever. But that wasn't really available to you, yeah, where you were partly geographically, as well as you know, in terms of the friendships that you had, whereas she was living in a town city, really, yeah, where there are nightclubs, and she grew up doing all of that stuff from a young age, really, a young age, yeah,

00:15:36.740 --> 00:16:23.179
I think we, we definitely complemented each other, we balanced each other out, which is why it felt, at the time, it felt like we were really good for each other, because, you know, we just like she brought this element to my life that I hadn't really experienced that much before, and she died, and her character, like, I'm quite mellow, I'm Quite down to earth, and she's very charismatic. Labrador, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so she really brought that out to me. I loved that. I really loved that. And so, and I feel like that's often what we do in relationships. We're looking for people who give us the parts of us that we don't really have, or, like, you know that, or they help build us up and bring out that that part of us. So, yeah.

00:16:19.320 --> 00:17:00.779
So yeah. So in that respect, she definitely, definitely helped my, my co my confidence and my like, you know, my sort of social side and but, yeah, but I did find that we, I think it was just the nature of our relationship. We kind of well, I found myself sort of growing towards her and changing myself to sort of not necessarily accommodate that, like she wasn't asking me to do this, but I just found myself changing to like fit the relationship more than maybe I should

00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:27.440
have done, which is so normal. Yeah, people do it as adults. I think it's harder to resist that when you're young, you've got a very plastic temperament and identity. And I mean, coming back to this whole you know, what do you do if your your child has a friendship and you don't like the friend, I always said, Well, they're probably looking at that friend and seeing something. Yeah, they want to, they there's a resell.

00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:55.599
But it doesn't mean to say they want to be that person. It just means that they they're reaching for that. And yes, I, I think there was, there was a moment when I started to see your identity, particularly your clothing, stepping over beyond where I saw Phoebe into something that where you weren't comfortable, you weren't comfortable, you would and you weren't even aware of it at the time, until you were getting stressed. And I thought, Ah, yeah, but it's very hard to see that unless you around you who go, oh, you know, I

00:17:55.599 --> 00:18:22.940
certainly agree. And and also, I mean eating things like, like, aren't you? Like, we both had very busy days, because obviously we were at school and working things like that. So the only time we would be able to speak was an evening, and then us being asked, we would talk for hours, and sometimes we'd have phone calls, and we'd be up until 2am 3am on the phone. And I'd also just like, yeah, disturb other people in the house. And yeah.

00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:24.440
And so I found that my secret routine got messed up.

00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:41.680
Are you begged me, because normally I remove phones from rooms I don't like, and you said, Mommy, this is the only job I can talk to. Should I have put more boundaries on that particular situation? That was where I Yeah. You see, that's where I what I decided was I decided in this situation, I thought, I need to let her just

00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:53.500
yeah and, and in all honesty, I was struggling, but I was managing like I my academics weren't didn't really slip that much.

00:18:49.539 --> 00:18:56.259
And you know, things like, I was able to maintain my life, even though it was more if

00:18:56.259 --> 00:19:03.359
I had seen your academics really suffering, do you think I should have stepped in? Um, because I could see your manager personally.

00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:22.640
Yes, because I have aspirations, I have dreams, I have goals that are very, very dependent on academics. And I think I would have needed that intervention if things started going downhill. And that's also something that I noticed in the in the relationship as well, and it's only something I just want.

00:19:23.059 --> 00:19:29.960
It had ended is that I lost my dreams in the relationship.

00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:34.579
Gosh, that's so interesting.

00:19:30.140 --> 00:20:01.799
Like, I Yeah, but it didn't feel that at the time, but, but I felt like I had everything that I wanted, you know, like I was getting all of this happiness from my relationship. And it just kind of, I lost my aspiration. I lost, you know, my drive. I really did, wow. And it was a bit of a shock actually coming out of that, because I can see how things would have ended really differently. Me, wow, had I

00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.420
like, and do you think that was protective that you had a close relationship with me? Yes,

00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:23.059
yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not that I was like, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't changing my entire life or anything like that. It's just, I actually, my actual drive, yeah, definitely, like, just

00:20:23.299 --> 00:20:43.420
Yeah. I mean, I could see, I could see it wasn't brilliant, but you still had time, because in your first year of very important years, and you were still keeping exactly work, and you were on, you know, the predicted grades were still good. So I was thinking and and that mattered to me, because it matters to you. So it wasn't something where it was my agenda. It was more your agenda.

00:20:40.400 --> 00:21:12.599
But I think, have I seen the thing that flags things up for me was your concern about your clothes and having me right for it? And I thought, no, no, this isn't right. Yeah, but I didn't stop things. I just looked at it and thought, this is worrying me. And then it ended abruptly, are you roughly? I mean, you were going back to school, and she called you and but over the phone, yeah, come on, come on.

00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.539
But this happens. This happens you're under this relationship.

00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:26.480
And I said to her, because we can unravel this. But I said to her, in my opinion, this was hard baked into the relationship. This end was going to happen at some point. Yeah.

00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:33.319
So she's a year above me, and we'd spent a really lovely summer together.

00:21:30.500 --> 00:22:06.180
We basically spent the entire, well, yeah, saved for a few weeks, and actually some of those weeks away, like, I don't know, I wasn't the best girl. I wasn't doing anything more, but, you know, we had a few tips, but like, other than that, we spent a really nice song together, and then we'd also, we talked to she, she's gone to uni now, and we discussed staying together during uni, but it's evident now to me, obviously, with with kind of tight side, that that would just would

00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:09.599
not have worked, and it wouldn't have realized if I told you that you just let

00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:30.079
them, yeah, yeah. It's so funny, because everyone always does this, but people would say, oh, you know, like that. You know, the relationships really struggle when you go to uni. No, we're going to be the anomaly. We're going to be outlier. We'll make it work. I just, I was just, I have my magic power I do mad.

00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.740
And I was like, No, we're going to be the ones

00:22:30.740 --> 00:22:47.680
Yes, yes, but yeah. And you know what's so funny is, I remember talking to your, one of your teachers. It was at, yeah, it was a summer event, and there were other kids who had relationships where they were going on to university, and I saw one of the boys walk off, and she went, won't last. Yeah,

00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.059
no. And I heard that, and I was like, yeah, they won't last. Everybody won't last.

00:22:53.980 --> 00:23:01.559
So it was so how did you find the way that I supported you when you broke up,

00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:35.720
I think you couldn't have done anything better. I think you genuinely, yeah, it was a very, very hard time. But, like, she ended things over the phone, and I was meant to be going back to school that evening, and I was absolutely devastated. And, well, yeah, I we didn't. We just went and hugged I just let you cry, yeah? And, and I did delay going back to school, yeah? So we didn't go, I didn't go to school. Nice day. And I think that's really important as well.

00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:43.299
If you've had a major breakup, yeah, like your child needs time, they really do, because it's like, really honor it is morning, yes,

00:23:43.299 --> 00:23:47.440
and take it seriously. Just because they're young doesn't mean that. Yeah, experience 100%

00:23:49.420 --> 00:24:27.140
and it's just not product like I that first week. I mean, to be fair, for me, probably I was more productive with work. Yeah? But, I mean, nothing was really going in. It was more cool, like, actually, one of the things I did was that night, like, I did not sleep. That night, I got no sleep. I was crying, crying, crying, I did not I was in floods of tears. Got up out of bed at two, 2am 2am I was like, I'm not lying Ben anymore, I'm not sleeping. So I sat down, I just wrote

00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:29.779
my personal statement, because that's

00:24:29.779 --> 00:24:31.759
your coping.

00:24:29.779 --> 00:24:38.539
Literally. There was no other way of blocking it out. I just had to focus on something, and I needed that deep focus because the thoughts were not leaving.

00:24:39.200 --> 00:25:07.740
And I'm also, I'm a really big over thinker, so I will fixate and as a really like that breakup was quite difficult because, so yeah, but I think one of the worst things from my experience coming off this that someone can do if you're going through a breakup is tell you all of the things, like the reason. Why you made the right choice, or, like, why you've won, or why they were so awful.

00:25:02.700 --> 00:26:01.799
Because actually, especially for me, like, I was broken up with it wasn't even like it was my decision, you know. So immediately that's like, I'm, you know, but and then having people tell you why you're so much better without them. It's just you're kind of dying all over again because you're like, This is someone who I put so much energy into. This is someone who I deeply loved. I did respect them. I did, you know, there were so many things that I did like about them, so then having your friends or like close relatives tell you the things that they didn't break up is not the best. No, no, that's not the best thing. But, you know, often people and they're trying to help, yeah, they're trying to help, people will jump to it and say, you know, Oh, you're so much better without them. Like they're so ugly now not enough that it doesn't have enough style anyway. Yeah, exactly. A lot of these things in but it doesn't help, like it might make you laugh. I don't think,

00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:02.640
I don't think I said,

00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.819
No, you didn't.

00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.819
But I had some people, of

00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.839
course, because they think that was, oh, that plenty more fish in the sea.

00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:09.839
Exactly, classic, you know,

00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:21.140
just rolling out the common phrase, and it doesn't just don't, don't do that. Stay away from it. That's really, yeah, having, having, having someone you love, being shattered on by all right, and

00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:51.940
she turned up 24 hours later to see you, and you called me. Said, Mommy, mommy, I can see, I can see the station. And I said, Do not, do not see her. Yeah? Because I at that point, that's where I intervene, because you had an exam to get into Oxford, yeah, in what, six weeks Yeah. And I just thought, you can't afford, yeah. To afford this, she's the person who did the dumping. You have to focus, yeah. What did you find? What did you feel about me saying that?

00:26:52.059 --> 00:26:54.220
No, again, it was definitely the right call.

00:26:54.220 --> 00:26:55.539
It was definitely the right call.

00:26:55.660 --> 00:27:00.359
That was the point at which I thought, I have to say something. And you can't be allowed to Yeah.

00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:20.160
And, and I basically said to her, Look, you know, it all felt very rash, like so much had happened. I remember reflecting that so much happened in the measure 24 hours. It was crazy. 14 hours I've been growing up with, and then asked for me. It was kind of crazy, but I think we were both kind

00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:24.619
of, she's young too, yeah, exactly. Felt like she'd made a terrible decision, yeah.

00:27:24.859 --> 00:27:56.619
And I said to her, Look, I've got this massive exam like this is turning the root of my life, and I really need to focus on that. And I frankly, don't really have the time. No, and, and, and also I was, I was angry. I was upset. I was definitely like, oh, I had so much flying around. And also I thought that I did think that she looked a bit pathetic coming back. So I abutted. That ignited the fire in me, to be honest.

00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:13.079
And so I was like, No, I just need some space right now. And they said, in six weeks after my exam has is done, then I will talk, I will talk to you. And you know what we can resolve, not necessarily, you know, but like, we'll talk about it. And yeah, now I'm

00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:25.759
not going to pick the whole thing apart, yeah, because there's, it's a long story about and down, and it didn't completely end there.

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:28.220
There was sort of intermediate points where she was back around,

00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:41.259
not I just wanted to go every single time I asked for no contact, and every single time I was not the one breaking. Yeah, in my defense, I would say, Oh, I would say, this is a massive thing. Ask for no contact, right?

00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:42.819
It makes it whether you're

00:28:42.819 --> 00:29:14.279
an adult or you're a child, yes, if you've just gone through quite an intense breakup, if you okay, this is, this is I listened to Emma Chamberlain's podcast. And correct your credit to her, because this is her point. If you ever loved them, you will not be able to be friends with them. Yeah, categorically, you will not be able to be friends with them. There'll be res, like, remaining feelings there, and so you have to go no contact, because you stay, like, keep talking to them. We'll just keep opening that wound that you're trying to heal from. It just It does not help.

00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:26.000
Yes, and it was very interesting, because after a while, she had come up with this idea about you writing to each other so you could keep in contact, which was a terrible idea.

00:29:26.059 --> 00:29:35.539
It kind of was, yeah, this at a time. It didn't seem like that, yeah at the time. At the time, it sounded reasonable,

00:29:35.720 --> 00:30:05.819
but every time what I tried to do was because your dad was getting quite frustrated with it and and she even came to our house at one point after I said, I don't ever want that girl in my house again. He drove off, and yeah, he'd, well, you could you were in a park having a little lunch with her, because you were trying to sort of unwind. It weren't she. And it was really beautiful that that you were both trying to navigate this breakup. And then. You called me and said, Will you will you give us a lift home? And I brought you home because, of course, I'm going to do whatever you need.

00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:23.660
And she wanted to have a conversation with me and apologize to me, not that she needed to, but when your father walked in, he was he just walked straight out together. And then we had a row later, when I was just saying, you know, you've got to do what your daughter needs. It's got to be done.

00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:48.279
But I yeah, I would say, I think it was very, it was very difficult, because we did kind of reopen things a few times, not she no open. So she kept, yeah, and, and and that was, that was hard, um, because it did, it definitely prolonged the healing process.

00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:57.759
Like, yeah, I remember when we first broke up again, listening to Emma James podcast, yeah, um, Emma James said at least six months. Like, that's how long.

00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:09.720
That's your minimum after a big breakup. Like, that's but in six months time, you will start to feel better, you know? And what a wonderful thing to know. Yeah, actually, it was so huge. It was so it was

00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.779
really, I mean, because some people it's two weeks, but they didn't really,

00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:16.740
I was going for a month, so I was really, like, I was really

00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:19.440
struggling. And why do you think that it was so hard?

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:24.380
Because I blamed myself for a lot of

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.380
what happened.

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.380
Why? Um,

00:31:28.519 --> 00:32:11.640
well, because, I mean, firstly, I was the one who was broken up with and and because it was so abrupt, and there wasn't really a reason for it, I had so many things in my mind. I was trying to, I'm a problem solver, so I was trying to unpick what it was, and I kept coming back to things that I had maybe done or said, or like things I should have done more. You know, I was there was the constant of, like, talking about, like, conversation of things I should have done. And, yeah, that was, really, wasn't helpful, because I was hurting because of the breakup, and I was also hurting because I had so much blame for myself, basically. So yeah, I was Yeah,

00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:24.019
and nothing, nothing. I said no. And it's really interesting, because, you know, in my opinion, it was always going to, yeah, it's almost gonna end at some point, yeah,

00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:46.119
um, but, but, yeah, but I put in my calendar when we broke up six months from that, I was like, You should be here for her by now to my calendar, but, but that date has kept being pushed back because it kept being honest, you know, but, and, yeah, so it was, well,

00:32:46.119 --> 00:33:05.339
yes, because you were pretty much, you were feeling a lot better. I was feeling a lot better by Christmas, for example. And then, yeah, yeah. And then I have, so this is, I think, as a parent, it's actually when they keep re entering the child's life, it could be very frustrating. As you can see, the healing process going really well. Yeah, so

00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:19.619
it was difficult because some of my friends not necessarily blamed me, but they, they, you know, said, Oh, well, it's with in your control not to respond, you know, right? Like, she kept reaching out, and they were like,

00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:26.119
Well, I do to what extent let's let's talk about this while we're on this.

00:33:22.220 --> 00:33:29.539
To what extent does social media make this much

00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:35.660
harder? Oh, it makes it a lot harder because we still followed each other.

00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:41.140
What I thought you didn't. What? Wait you said, you know,

00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:58.240
yeah, well, we don't anymore, but then I mean, after December, after after last time, right, right. No, we still bad mistake. Yeah, I know. I know. Oh, okay, um,

00:33:58.299 --> 00:34:00.519
so number one, they need. Number

00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.960
one, everything, etc. Also, you've got

00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.500
lots of interlinking friends, yeah. So

00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:17.280
I was seeing her face a lot on other people's stories, you know, seeing her stories, seeing her new life in London,

00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:20.340
and thinking, Oh, my God, she's moved on.

00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:23.000
She's having this amazing time.

00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:24.079
And then when you did talk to her, you discovered it

00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:27.679
wasn't, yeah. I mean, that helps a lot. No. So this is

00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:41.559
the problem because social media, but this is one of the reasons social media is so problematic, yeah, because we know, you know, we've had these conversations time and again that what you're seeing is not created best, you know best possible.

00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:46.119
And we were both aware that, yeah, like, yes. So, so you're

00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:47.739
sitting there thinking, Oh, she's moved on.

00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:49.539
Oh, her life is so much better.

00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:49.539
No,

00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:58.239
yeah, well, yeah, to think so, um, but, but yeah. So, I mean, that did definitely complicate things.

00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:41.619
But I would say, like, do. One of the best things was unfolding each other. Because a lot of, I mean, breakups take up so much for your mental energy, and a lot of that does come from, like, same message from you and everything, but it just helps to get them out of your mind, because you're not, you know, every single what I found is one of the most important steps was starting to do things for me again, because everything I was doing until not long ago, I mean, a significant like, way through the healing process, I was still doing things with her in mind, yeah. So I noticed that I would post things, knowing that she would see them, yeah.

00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:57.880
Like I would, I would, you know, like, keep looking for her, or like reminders of her in certain places, or like things like that, you know. And there were certain days that I would show up. Well, no, actually, I didn't show up. I decided not to cope.

00:35:54.579 --> 00:36:16.139
But like, I was planning on doing things because she was going to be there, etc. And so, like removing each other from social media was a massive step in that, yes, I was no longer having their own mind when I was posting. It was very liberating, because I it was cut. It was cutting another tie, basically, to that relationship.

00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:17.639
Could you have done that straight

00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:21.260
away? I could have,

00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:25.579
you didn't want to. This is the problem. You can kind of, and

00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:39.139
it's, it's, I feel like it's also part of, like, You're in denial, yeah, when you're in a space, like, yeah, I would wake up and I would, every single morning, I'd be like, I'm no longer in a relationship. Like, you know, I love being in

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:41.199
a relationship.

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:43.539
I love that. I absolutely love it. I mean, you just generally, you're very much, yeah, I know.

00:36:43.539 --> 00:36:45.760
I love being connected by somebody. You I'm I'm

00:36:45.760 --> 00:37:13.139
definitely, like a relationship person I I'm not, yeah, and, and it was kind of past. It wasn't really part, it was part of my identity. I saw myself as, yeah, her girlfriends. You know, this is the point. Yeah, I did, actually, my identity did, again, go through quite a big crisis when we broke up, because it was like, Who am I now, apart from this person who I've been with for so long now, you know, we've known each other for over a year, and

00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:45.940
in an intense way too. Yeah, it was very this is the whole thing that's so interesting about teenagers. Is this, this, this really unstable identity that kids have, and some will get into a relationship, and it won't really touch the sides much, and then they've split up and but it but really, those relationships aren't those big intense ones, but you have these big intense ones and and quite often they can really shift the dial a lot, yeah, and having to come back again and then, but your dial remains shifted. Just is you're having to find a new equilibrium, yeah, and that's really difficult to do.

00:37:46.360 --> 00:38:22.340
Yeah, no, it is. And yeah, but I, you know, I feel I've learned so many things through this experience, and I am who I am because of her, like we I am this person I am today having gone through that relationship, and yes, you know so I don't, I don't begrudge or anything. I don't like, I wouldn't take anything back, because I feel like everything that I've learned is an unequal lesson, but it has shaped my identity. But part of, part of the process of rebuilding our identity after a breakup is, is like, it's yeah, it's very important.

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:36.980
Moving forward, you went on hinge, which is so funny, so funny because you showed just briefly, and it was very funny because, because you had guys and girls that you were talking,

00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:40.539
yeah, yeah.

00:38:37.099 --> 00:39:32.719
Well, the reason why I've come off it again is, firstly, I think I have an addictive personality, fair enough. I do know that about myself with, like, tick tock I can't be on I don't have tick tock because I know, like, it just takes up so much on my guess, because I don't have the control to to just, Oh, I like that. I literally, I can't go on these things, yeah. So I found out, I found that it was taking up a lot of my time, because it's because I was like, it's amazing. It's really enjoying, like, the next person. It is enjoyable. The next person could be the one like, yeah. So I was constantly bowling. They gamified it so much passion, you know, but um, and I was really unhappy with all the people that were coming up on my point my feed. So I was like, oh, no, I just keep you know, there might be another one. There might be not, no, no, no, um, but

00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:36.800
why? Why boys as well as girls? What? Where are you at? Well,

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:51.039
because I so this was part of the identity crisis. Thing is that I like, I don't know, like, I don't want to call myself something, yeah, and find that and then not be that, because I feel like that will upset a lot of people.

00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:59.920
But you told me early on, because I asked you about, you know, whether you wanted to have a specific identity and you wanted to identify in the LGBT, yeah. I.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:09.900
Actually, you said the thing about the lesbian community is it can feel really traitorous for a type of bi person. Well, yeah, what I like is that you're holding your identity loosely.

00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.659
Yeah. I mean, I say I am. I don't

00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:41.480
feel like any of the labels fit me, like I wouldn't call myself bi, wouldn't call myself pan, like I don't really like any of the label thing. And why do we need to label? Why do we need to label? What does it mean and, and I know, for me personally, there's actually not really, like a characteristic that I look for in a person. It's, it's if I feel that spark and I feel that chemistry, then, you know, yeah, I kind of, I remember saying to you, like, I feel like I'm attracted to people's souls, and

00:40:41.539 --> 00:40:47.320
I want to be up on that, because you said that spark and chemistry, and that makes it sound like a sexual thing, but it's

00:40:47.320 --> 00:41:12.239
like, if I connect with you like, I'm very, sort of tuned into my like relationship, my emotional connections with people, and that's really important for me, and only then if I feel like I have that with someone, then am I even entertaining the idea of moving forwards with that? Yeah, like I don't. Yeah. So your father

00:41:12.239 --> 00:42:19.019
and I met on a dating website at a time when there were no apps. Nobody was doing this. Everybody was shocked when they found out. But I was a TV presenter, and I kept meeting people all day, every day, but I kept thinking, This isn't who I am. I mean, this, this is a persona, yeah? And I didn't want people to mistake who I really was. And I was on that dating website for a year, just left my details up there. I wasn't contacting people. People were contacting me constantly, and I was just deleting them and, and eventually I got an email from your father, and I just thought, now you're interesting, yeah, funny. You've read my profile. You can write beautifully, and you've sold yourself sufficiently, and, and that's pretty much your father, anyway, and he takes this very seriously. And I think the reason I want to mention this is because I was talking to a boy I know who's in his 20s about dating apps and things, and he was he loved what I said, which is that you don't need all the people. You need the one person you're looking for, one person.

00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:49.480
So if you are in a dating app, or you are sort of hunting, and is not you're not meeting people in your immediate environment, which normally you will. So when you go to university, you'll meet people. Well, that's one of the reasons why. But with the dating apps, I think the trick is you are hunting for some just one. You don't need lots of people. So you need to know what you're looking for, and that's the importance of understanding your own identity and what matters to you, and to spending that time with yourself saying, Who am I? What would fulfill me?

00:42:45.340 --> 00:42:49.480
Really can make a difference?

00:42:49.659 --> 00:43:16.380
Yeah, that's one of the things that pissed me off, was that there were so many people who were coming up in my like, my feed, or suggested people, I don't know what you call it, but who just clearly had not put any effort into their profile, not not necessarily, with pitch. Like it doesn't need to be, you know, a world class photo headshot in black and white, you know, yeah, like, it's more just writing your bio about who you are and your passion. Yeah, anyway, because

00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:19.739
that's what we connect with. Yeah, it's not, and it's not, yeah,

00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.340
how many says to the side, yeah, exactly.

00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:28.519
Because actually, the number three people on hinge with six packs means that I'm more likely to choose on with a six pack.

00:43:28.519 --> 00:44:37.699
Who can write, well, then you just say, That's so fun. Yes, yeah. But anyway, there was something I wanted to say before, which was that I think one of the things that has really helped me move on is getting that closure. And I and I realized that closure can be really difficult, like finding, you know, closure is to this construct, right? That will never know that we fully had it or not, like it's, you know, but I there were things that I was hanging on to and through her coming back, kind of like, you know, messaging me again, even though it was difficult and it threw me back into the rut. And, you know, it prolonged. It has prolonged everything. It meant that some of my answer questions were answered, and and actually, what became clear to me from the last time was that it wasn't my fault. And, you know, none of my things ever been about me, right? It wasn't me. And it meant that I could immediately let go of all that blame that I had for myself. Oh, I love that.

00:44:37.820 --> 00:44:56.260
And, and someone described it to me because I saw a teacher at school, and she asked me how everything's been going. And I said, Well, you know, and she asked about the relationship, yeah, that's over. And, well, she actually asked me, because she really knew that it ended.

00:44:53.739 --> 00:44:59.920
But she asked how I was doing, and and she commented, and she said that I seemed a lot like.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:07.380
To her, and I explained to her that we had actually kind of, we had spoken again and and I feel like I finally got that closure.

00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:22.639
And she said, you had your finger stuck in the door. If you got your finger trapped in the door, pulling on it and trying to get away is painful, and it's not. You're not You're not going to free your finger by tugging on it and trying to run away.

00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:57.219
Sometimes you have to go back and reopen the door to shut it again. Who is this teacher I wanted to send that you're out, and I had my finger trapped in the door. Love that, because I had all this residual, you know, emotional blame, and you know, all of these things. And so it did for me personally, it did take talking to her again and going and sort of, you know, trying it that one last time to actually fully dislodge my fake, wow. And it worked, and it worked, and I've, you know, I've been able to fully shut that door and and I feel so much more free. So

00:45:57.219 --> 00:46:21.199
for the parents who get very frustrated with this situation, and they, all they see is the same thing over and over, oh my goodness, yeah, gonna get over it? Why? It's a process, and we have to kind of inch forward, and all the time, keep revisiting what's actually going on here. I was fully engaged with you, so I fully understood your mindset. I think your dad was looking on thinking, what the hell yeah, she's back again, my friends, you

00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:52.119
know, like I said earlier, my friends were getting quite frustrated because they were saying, Why are you responding? Yeah, no, they were kind of blaming me. They were saying, like, why are you talking to her? Why aren't you just, why haven't you blocked her yet? And I think, I think it's because internally, I was like, there's still something that we need to resolve, and, and and, and I know that I kept entertaining it because that was still something there. And so, you know, I kept that door open rather than locking her, but now I've locked her on everything.

00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:52.119
So it's fine. Well,

00:46:52.239 --> 00:47:10.860
in a world of ghosting and, you know, shallow interactions, I all I can say is, I think this was an incredible first relationship. I think you've grown immensely from it. Both of you, I think, have done the best you can with what, what, what was there?

00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:13.559
Because I think she was emotional as well. She was growing too. She was learning.

00:47:13.860 --> 00:47:25.579
You know, nobody perfect. We make mistakes. We do stupid things and and I think actually, the fact that you both communicated so well, and you learned from this is amazing, yeah,

00:47:26.179 --> 00:47:36.440
probably the, like, best communication that we've had was, was the last time we spoke really, yeah, like, because we had nothing to lose anything, yes. So then, right?

00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:39.860
So this is another thing. Like, this is where it's coming out.

00:47:40.519 --> 00:48:15.599
So, because we were long distance, I mean, it was, it was really difficult first relationship and long distance and and graduate girls like, I mean, it was really, yeah. So because we weren't seeing each other that often, it made the moments when we did see each other very, very special. And I think it meant that neither of us wanted to bring things up to each other, yeah, right, or deal with problems, you know, they were just small for fear of running, you know, that precious time that we had together because it was so rare that did cause resentment for both of us.

00:48:12.360 --> 00:49:02.400
I think there were, you know, things that we just weren't telling each other that, you know, we problems that we had and things like that. So when things definitively came to an end, those last few conversations were the most honest conversations we've ever had with each other about our emotions, because we have nothing to lose anymore. Yeah, and we could be unapologetically, completely honest and ourselves. And you know, because every single time we saw each other, it was, it had some perfects. How wonderful. But yeah, so I would say that's one of the dangers of, I mean, I don't, I can't speak for adult relationships, but I know that in our experience, it was definitely like the route times that we would see each other, oh, 100% like pressure for them to be really good. I've had,

00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:28.699
I've had long distance relationships. They are extraordinarily tough, and exactly what you said you you end up trying to either, when they see each other, there's so much build up that is not a good celebration, that you've got to dump it all, or that you're trying to say nothing, yeah, desperately trying to make it all lovely. And, you know, very, very difficult. So you know, hats off to people who manage a long distance relationship,

00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:30.800
lying again, doing that there,

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:33.980
right? Phoebe, thank you. That was amazing.

00:49:34.460 --> 00:49:41.079
Interesting. I learned things.

00:49:34.460 --> 00:49:45.099
Oh, if you found this useful, please let somebody else know.

00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:45.099
Send it to friends, families.

00:49:46.059 --> 00:50:23.000
Anyone who might find it helpful. Five Star Review would be amazing. Yes, that's how people find the podcast. Did you know that really, yes, it's the reviews on the podcast app. So it really helps me. If you want to contact me. There's a little button at the top of the podcast notes, and that's just to kind of message me. I can't message you back, but if you want to actually email me, it's teenagers untangled@gmail.com the websites, www.teenagersuntangled.com, I am on substack now. It's just great because it's not algorithm based or anything. It's a really beautiful white writing website, and that's it. That's it

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.559
for me. Amy, thank you so much. No, you're welcome. Thank you for listening. Yeah, big hug from me.

00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:28.820
Have a great week. Bye, bye. You