24: Identity crisis? Why identity is such an issue for teenagers. Also, stinky teens and what we can do about it.

Rachel Richards: 0:02

Hello, you're listening to teenagers on tangled an audio hug of advice and ideas for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards former BBC correspondent parenting coach mother of two teenagers and two older stepdaughters.

Susie Asli: 0:16

Hi, I'm Susie Asli mindfulness coach, therapists, musician, a mother of three teenagers, two of them are twin.

Rachel Richards: 0:24

Like last time, we introduced the nuggets section where we reflect on something we've experienced as a parent. Now, Suzy, what's yours for this time? Well,

Susie Asli: 0:32

mine this time is I'm doing a course at the moment online, which is about somatic therapy, and how the body fits into all of all of the things we learn about, which is really, really interesting.

Rachel Richards: 0:43

Don't panic, no one understands that.

Susie Asli: 0:46

It's fine. Body stuff, body and mind and bodies. I've been exploring co regulation, which means by being with somebody else, and the vibe that we send, send out, we can co regulate, amazing. So how would you do that? So we do it instinctively with babies, we pick them up, and we are just there. And we're kind of queueing or you know, sending all our calm vibes and the baby comes down. And we can continue to do that. And I think it's it's kind of the contrast is when we're with somebody who dysregulates our nervous system. So we all know when we're with people, you know, how do you feel afterwards? Oh, I feel like a nervous wreck. That's not co regulation. That's the opposite. So with our kids, so I just experimented the other night, one of my kids had a homework that he was really struggling with. And normally I don't get involved in homework at all. But he was finding it really challenging. And he was clearly pretty annoyed about it. And it was really late. And I know in the past, I have maybe tried to go in and fix it and maybe escalate with them when they're struggling. So I tried the opposite, and just sat deliberately and just didn't really say very much and just was as calm as I possibly could and sort of tried to exude just being. And literally within two minutes, he had calmed down, he couldn't still couldn't do the math. I couldn't do. But his voice changed, you know, dropped. He was breathing differently. And he wasn't like completely out of it beforehand. But he definitely calmed down and went to bed calm, and I lay with him in bed as well and did the same mazing it's really

Rachel Richards: 2:19

easy. That's a very interesting technique. I've done that with my one of my daughter's when she's got very stressed. And I'll just hug her. And I do something called Ojai breathing, which is from yoga. Yeah. And it's a very, very deep, slow breathing technique. Yeah. And she always says, I feel so good. And then her breathing starts to work with mine. So I've done it without even knowing. Yeah,

Susie Asli: 2:41

and we do do it. Do it people like people that we are, we can we click where we connect with like, if it's a partner or family member, we, you know, you feel your body feels really balanced after Yes, that's a natural co regulation, but we can do it deliberately.

Rachel Richards: 2:54

Brilliant. So for me, it was a great discussion that led on to career choices. And I my daughter turned to me with a wry smile and said, Say mommy, how's the yogurt making go? Because she'd noticed the yogurt machine in a cupboard unused for the last few weeks. And this yogurt machine had been bought by my husband. So the first thing I said was, that was your father who bought that, and I didn't have anything to do with it, he had suddenly decided that we're going to make this yoga that's good for cancer. And, and I got excited about making it, you know, the whole process. But I very quickly got bored of it. And I said to her, you need to understand something about me. And it's very useful for you to think about it. And the thing that I'm going to tell you about me is I am really bad at repetitive tasks. So anything that involves deeper and deeper learning of the same task, which is something that for example, craftsmen are very good at jewelers, carpenters, all those sorts of people do this incredible deep learning of a particular skill. I'm terrible at it. And I know that about myself. So I get very excited. And then I'll move on. Because I feel like I kind of know that it's not that exciting for me. And I turned into a journalist as a result, because I'm very good at running out into the world and exploring every little corner I can find and pulling back information and then turning it in something that is possibly very complicated. That seems quite simple. So this is my skill or my talent in life. And I said, you know, it doesn't make me a bad person that I can't keep making yogurt every week. It's just that I'm not suited to it. So what you need to understand is, Who am I what am I good at? What do I enjoy anybody have a low tolerance level for something? Make sure I don't go into that as a career because I'm never going to be very successful at it. Whereas there are other things that I will be very successful as it was a really, really useful discussion and I had the same conversation with my younger daughter because for me I'd learned a lot just from having to explain myself. Yes, it's really interesting. You've been challenged by your teenagers isn't Ness is a really bad, like gives you a chance to explain yourself. So yeah, absolutely. Now Susie you treat people for all sorts of issues. One of the things that's really common amongst teenagers is an identity crisis. And so we this is something we're going to discuss today because it's such an important stage that we go through. I mean, we can we can have identity crisis whenever we want. Midlife people talking about quarterlife crisis. I mean, you know, yeah, then identity crisis is defined as a period of uncertainty or confusion in a person's life. And it occurs when a person's sense of identity becomes insecure and unstable. And it's often when there's a change in their life. Now, the teenage years really, are the first big burst of this because they've gone from having quite a secure, hopefully, quite a secure understanding of that they are this person in this family, and then they're starting to branch out into the world. And it is quite a big shift.

Susie Asli: 5:57

Yeah. And it can be really challenging. I mean, I really balk at the term crisis. I don't like it. I don't know.

Rachel Richards: 6:05

You don't like people catastrophizing things? Yes.

Susie Asli: 6:09

To call it an identity crisis. How about because, you know, the description that you've just, you know, read out is? I mean, that describes all teenagers, and it describes a lot of adults as well, to be honest. But, you know, identity experimentation might be better. Yes. They're trying on different different identities, because that's what they're doing. They're finding out who they are. And that's completely normal. Yes. And I think it's our reaction to that that can be the problem. Yes, as in many things.

Rachel Richards: 6:39

And they're trying, it's that they've started to understand that they have different social roles. Yes. You talked last time when we were talking about the empty nest syndrome. When I mentioned, you know, the roles that we play in life, and you said, Well, you could go deeper than that. So what are your values? Yes. And it's about how we can talk to our teenagers about not simply their role? Yes. Because I think we will come into this this role playing because they're important to actually roles tend to, they can confine you. So once you say I'm this Yeah, then what you're sort of saying is you're not all those other things.

Susie Asli: 7:14

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's yes, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of a complicated thing, really, in that. I mean, I think our identity is, is who we are, when we're not the roles that we've been given. So we can take them as well. But, you know, we're a daughter, we're a son, we're a brother, a sister, we're a school child, we're, you know, whatever, we were a hockey team member. And they're really important. And they, you know, they really contribute to our whole identity, but they're not who we are. So who we are, is, when we are just ourselves, you know, what are you like, inside? And that's, of course, a, you know, a work in progress we do we look at that our entire lives, but the teenage years of probably where we're exploring it the most, because we suddenly suddenly become aware of all these different facets and all these different social, like you said, social social settings that we have. And we are confronted with, oh, who the heck am I.

Rachel Richards: 8:10

And I think that that's very, very difficult for teenagers. If it goes on acknowledged, they feel they start feeling this disk, this discomfort with who they might be, and they're grasping, they're trying to find something that makes them feel comfortable about themselves, but they don't know how to go about it,

Susie Asli: 8:27

if they don't first have that internal feeling of safety inside of kind of like, you know, at the age of 4050. You don't know who you are exactly, but maybe a kind of inkling that I'm okay, it's connected to self worth, you know, that I'm okay. As me. I'm alright. I know who I am. I know what my values are. Maybe not specifically in verbally, because, you know, we're teenagers. It's hard. It's kind of quite abstract. But there's a sense of being able to be with yourself in a in a safe, comfortable way. I think that's the first step. And then if we don't have that, then then the roles that we put on or the identities we take, they are sort of scrambling around for for a feeling of safety, we want to belong, where do we belong? How do we know? And that can be quite tricky, but it's also normal. It's also not

Rachel Richards: 9:19

it's very normal. It's very, it's a process that teams need to go through. But I love what you said about that sense of self worth, because I think that's a role we can play as parents in. It's easy for us to get panicked and worried about who our teenagers are or who they're becoming, but we need to constantly come back to are we filling them with a sense of self worth? Are they are they are they aware that they're loved and they're decent people underneath whatever it is they're displaying on the outside?

Susie Asli: 9:48

Yeah. And then the identities they pick. They're just like putting on hats. They just they can put them put them on take them off, because they're their inner sense of worth is isn't being brought To each time, yes, but I think we also have to be careful. We touched on this quite a few episodes ago about giving our kids identities. And we do that often from the best place. Maybe it's banter in the family or, or we're desperate to find something that they can do their thing I think we talked about it ages ago, you know, are great. You're the use of netballer you're the pianist. You're the academic one. You're the funny one. You're the you're the showman. And we we love that sort of categorizing and it's gonna make us feel feel

Rachel Richards: 10:36

a bit safer. And they feel noticed. It's

Susie Asli: 10:39

nice. It's there's a nice bit it can go it but can become a problem when they then okay, she'll Yeah, Kate. Yeah. Well, I don't want to be the academic one. today. I want to, I don't want to be the show, man. Actually, I've got a stinking headache. And I don't want to be funny.

Rachel Richards: 10:51

Or, for example, where, you know, this happened later in life for him, but Bear Grylls who I was listening to recently whose chief Scout filmed the whole of the world. And he broke his back. And he was an outdoor adventurer, and he lay in the bed having an existential crisis thinking, Wait, if I'm not those things, who am I? Who am I? And this is inevitable, obviously, because we all are made up of the various different roles we play in life, but right at the core of that is, you know, what are my values? And what what matters to me? And how do I feel about myself. And those roles can trap you, if one day you break your leg. And then suddenly, personally,

Susie Asli: 11:28

my eldest was, you know, really good at playing music. And he was very explicit. He said, I don't want to be the music. Boy, I don't want that. I don't want that label. And he had, you know, other external things going on. But he ended up stopping because he didn't want that label. He didn't want to be, you know, conforming to that label.

Rachel Richards: 11:48

Interesting. Yes. Now, les parrot, who is a professor of psychology develop these five common ways in which teens demonstrate struggles with identity, seeking status symbols. So you know, looking for clothes and possessions that give them a sense of positive affiliation. And we know that this is very common for teenagers, it's very normal. But it can be extreme, forbidden grown up behaviors, because that makes them feel that they can then be accepted by others, because they think that by appearing mature that they are something other than perhaps what they are. Rebellion, many teens use rebellion as a way to show that they're different from their parents, and then to be accepted by their peers. Idols some identify specifically with one person we've all had somebody on. And and then cliques, you know, forming an identity, which becomes the clique. So they are nothing without the clique. So I've told my girls to act like a magpie look around them and the things they find attractive, there's a reason you find them attractive, there might be things that you don't have yet in terms of personal traits, or whatever it is, explore it, don't think, oh, that you're attracted to somebody, we they used to call it Pash, where they the girls would be attracted to another girl who was older than them. And it was more that they were fascinated by somebody else. And it could be another boy and other girl, anybody. But let them explore that. It doesn't mean anything. In particular, it means that they are curious, and they're trying to experiment. They're trying to explore their identity. And it's a good thing. So I think we parents panic and think, Oh, they're they're showing signs, they're going to do this. No, they're just trying things out. Yeah,

Susie Asli: 13:33

yeah. And the more nonchalant we can be about them changing. And the more that's because that's a normal thing. Oh, you're you're this this week. And you're that next week? Okay, great. Go for it. Have fun with that. So that instead of you know, reacting and going, Oh, my God, what's what now kind of thing, then the less the less they have to rebel. And the more they can have fun with it, because it is really earning an interesting time for them.

Rachel Richards: 13:57

And I have noticed that with all my kids, I have coached them without really knowing it, about their identities. And you know, for example, one of them said, once, oh, I think I'm seeing like this, and I don't really want to be seen like that. How do I What do I do? And I said, Well, you could you could we present yourself to the world. So, you know, we're now living in an era of social media. And that reflects back on us who we are. And so I said, Well, you could present you can either try different clues out to signal to people that you're different from the person that they might have thought you are. You can present different images on social media about yourself, you know, this is all about trying on different hats and showing signaling to other people that you are not stuck in that particular role. But it's also about how she sees itself.

Susie Asli: 14:48

Yes, that's the key, isn't it? And it's this kind of like there's almost two parts to it. And then there's the internal identity that we talked about before you know, how do you feel inside? Do you feel Do you feel good, you feel comfortable in your and skin. And then there's the external identity, which is the you know what you're talking about. Now the you trying on different hats though, what do you want to present? outwards? But if you haven't got the if you don't feel safe in your own skin, then then it's it's hard to try on hats without being. Yes, problematic.

Rachel Richards: 15:18

Yes. Because if you don't actually have a fixed identity of any time, then every time for example, if you spend time with other people, then you will try and become that other person. So there's a classic, I remember girlfriends who would start dating some boy, and suddenly their favorite hobby was hockey, or, and they buy everything or that, you know, they did, suddenly, now they're windsurfing, and they're trying it out, which is great buy into it, they'd suddenly Yeah, you know, their new identity was entirely this and then the relationship would end and suddenly you go, so how's the surfing? And they go, Oh, no, I'm not.

Susie Asli: 15:52

We can, you know, give our kids identities with the best will in the world. And I've been aware of of doing it myself. And I thought I was quite aware of not doing it. But my youngest boys is really sociable. He loves being hanging out with his mates. And so we've started to call him party boy in the house, just you know, from a had a no, just as a nice little nickname. And he thinks it's funny. And then I was suddenly aware, like, Oh, I'm not sure that's a great name. Because, you know, what if he doesn't want to be party boy, or what if he's, you know, wants to stay home? Does he then feel that I'm sure he doesn't read much into it. But it's just this idea that we can give labels without even realizing we're doing it. And just being aware that, you know, it's fine to do it, but it doesn't, you can take it away as well.

Rachel Richards: 16:39

And so much of it, that's about other people's expectations. And I remember going to university and I was so excited about getting to university, I was the party girl, everyone was coming back to my room. And it was just great fun. And I became known as that person. So for the first two terms, that was my identity. And then I thought, actually, I don't want to be this person, just because I can't fit that role. And my other daughters experiences too. And suddenly, you're not the person that they think you should be, and you get punished for it. And so it's about being brave enough to say, You know what I'm not, I don't want to make myself into something that doesn't work for me and accepting that it's okay to be lots of different things and people find it more, is the people outside who find it complicated, more complicated than the person inside who's reworking their personnel?

Susie Asli: 17:30

Because where are they going to hang out in the evenings if you're not particularly convenient? I don't think with my daughter as well, like, she's amazing with animals. She's like the animal whisperer and the child whisperer, they all sort of flock to her. And so we've talked about that nodes. I know, it's a lovely thing. You know, you couldn't you could explore that later in your life if you want to, until all these different things. And she's like, Yeah, I'm also really good at English. And I could do that, and that, and I came back to off immediately. Okay,

Rachel Richards: 17:59

and you notice it, and that's the great thing, because you're aware of it. And so I think what we need to do as parents is just be aware that when we try and say things to our kids, and it's all coming from a well meaning space, we're thinking of what can we can they have what, you know, you're great at this, you can do this, you know, back off a bit. And if you get that feedback, say, Ah, okay, so what I've done is I've boxed you in there, you're also that you're also there. So all

Susie Asli: 18:22

you all these different things. And you might be something completely different next week.

Rachel Richards: 18:27

Yes, yes. And it's okay to experiment. You don't have to be anything in particular, don't let other people and it's really interesting one, because there, there's a case of a young man who went on YouTube because he was interested in getting followers and he played his instrument, and got no interest whatsoever.

Susie Asli: 18:45

It was a classical string player wasn't the classical string was really interesting, you know,

Rachel Richards: 18:51

I bet you would follow him. And then he decided, okay, that's not working. And so he started eating things, with people watching, what do you want me to eat? And people suddenly started watching him. Amazing, isn't? Exactly, exactly. And they were goading him and saying, you know, try eating this, can you eat too much and, and he's ended up being extremely obese, and his personality has completely changed. And he's quite offensive and unpleasant, obviously, entertaining to people. But what's really interesting about it is that our personalities can morph we get feedback from people. And if it's a feedback, pushing and people someone in one direction, when they have a personality, they an identity, that's not really settled yet. It can be quite negative. So it's always giving our tunes this feedback, you know, their home environment, we have some control, we can give them positive feedback about the things that they're doing. As as a human being just what is it about you as a human being that I love and just always I love you? Yeah, I just love you. I love you, whatever you are, and personality

Susie Asli: 19:54

is an interesting one as well, isn't it because we, you know, we we used to think that personality was just something you were born with and that was just That's the end. Now we know that, oh, there's this, you know, research that it's that's not how it works. And it's, you know, actually your personality can be a response to, you know, something traumatic, that's happened in your life earlier. So you, the good girl could be just a response to something bad that's happened that you felt you had to be this particular way as a child, and that evolves and stays as a habit for for years and years and years. But that's not actually how you're born interest. So it's a much more fluid thing.

Rachel Richards: 20:32

Yes, yes. And again, with our social media environment, we have to we should really recognize that that can actually play a role with our teens. So if we want to help our teens who may be struggling a little with this, once again, it's it's feeding back that they're loved, and they're important for who they are not anything, any particular role that they're playing for us, modeling healthy attitudes towards our own identity. So, you know, yes, I'm a mother. But I'm so many other things, and being able to demonstrate to your your team that actually, it's okay to not want to try and be one person. Yeah. But the trying out different roles can be a good thing,

Susie Asli: 21:12

and that you're comfortable in your own skin, I think is a really, really amazing lesson to teach our kids

Rachel Richards: 21:18

avoid making comparisons between teams or your your children. Yeah, because we, as we heard, it can be quite destructive, or at least

Susie Asli: 21:26

easy to do. Easy. degrees, and you're the you're the funny one, you're the bright one. You're the Yeah, and none of it's set in stone.

Rachel Richards: 21:34

None of it set in stone. Yeah, if it doesn't work, and you try this outfit on, or you try this style of being a person and it doesn't work fine, tries me is because that was the that was the other thing. I got this sense that my kids felt that once they had been a certain way that they really were being inconsistent if they weren't that way. And I said, and I said, Well, if they confront you about it, or maybe even talk to people about it, just say, I'm a teenager, I'm supposed to change. This is this is my job. I'm supposed to be drying out this stuff. And I say, I just you know, when I had a whole group of girls around a table the other day, I just said girls experiment, try things, try different clothes, do what is great, I love that you've all got different styles, you know, do that because it's harder when you're older.

Susie Asli: 22:16

Yeah. And it's the response that they get that is the tricky business, our response, and we don't like change, and we don't

Rachel Richards: 22:21

like. So just to wrap it up, I think we can really help our teens by telling them how identity works. And that spending time figuring it out is as healthy and normal. And coming back to signs that they don't feel a strong identity. For example, if your teen is obsessed with designer clothes, you can tell them that you totally understand why it's important and why they feel the need to belong, then tell them what are the qualities you see in them, and maybe reinforce that they are so much more than just that image and talk about the downside of trapping yourself as being just one type of person or like my teen who ended up in a park with a group who drank alcohol at the age of 13. And we talked about her need to belong. But I also asked her if that role was the one that she actually wanted to choose. Because eventually people were going to define her as that person. And I think as a teenager, she can choose from a range of identities. So I've tried to support her in thinking about who she really is inside and how she can find people who bring out the best in her. What work for you, maybe you're having your own identity crisis. And these are ideas that can help you think about your own for values and who you are. Besides the roles you play. We'd love to hear from you. You can email us at help at teenagers untangled.com or message us on Facebook or Instagram. And everything is on our website at WWW dot teenagers untangle.com. Our next we'll talk about stinky teenagers but first Katrina in Jakarta wrote to tell us that she really enjoyed listening to our podcast on empty nest Susie.

Susie Asli: 24:02

Amazing from Jakarta. That's a really long way away. Yes. Thank you so much for this, I really enjoyed listening as I'm sure many, many other members were to was was very taken by surprise how hard I found it. So a lot resonated with me. And your explanation and tips are spot on. Thank you, Katrina. That's really lovely,

Rachel Richards: 24:21

amazing. And Katrina is a social worker. She has a fantastic list of resources that she circulates. You know, one of them was about eating disorders. And I'm going to put that on to the episode that the podcast notes on the episode where we talked about helping your teen develop healthy eating habits because actually I watched the TED Talks and it was amazing. So she circulates this list. She's put our podcast on trips. Thank you so much. That's amazing. The more listeners the better. So do share us with anyone who might benefit from our chats. Now this Mrs. M 68. That's her handle. I have battled with my daughter all her life about washing When she was little bathtime was a nightmare with lots of screaming and tears. She is now 17 years old working and growing into a lovely young lady. She has lots of good qualities. And I'm very proud of her. Her bedroom is a tip. But I understand that it's just a teenage thing. I can't however, ignore her poor, poor personal hygiene. I have two other children one older and one younger than her. And all of us including my husband shower every day. She doesn't. So

Susie Asli: 25:28

tricky. Tricky, tricky. Yeah, I mean, we have an honesty policy in our house have had for quite a while because I sometimes think that they just don't know, like, and it's just like kind feedback. And I've always done it in a way that is without emotion without any judgment or shaming or you know, you should know better sort of attitude, honesty, policy, you you smell, you need to go and have a shower. And you know, I've got two boys who do a lot of sport, one of them particularly now does a lot of sport and they wear these awful polyester tops that Reek stinky soteria they've got plastic football boots. And you know, there was a while where he didn't realize that he's totally on it. Now they're all fine. But I would just go you use smells. I'm just letting you know, you do actually smell now and I think it would be great if he went and had a shower. And he goes, Oh, okay.

Rachel Richards: 26:23

Yes. And it comes back to that whole thing about optimists and pessimists and where one feels like when you say something about them, it's who they are. The other one is, it's something they're doing. Yes. And it's just something it's just like you need to wash. Yeah, it's not. It's not like you It's

Susie Asli: 26:41

just Oh, do you sweated? Yes. Now it doesn't smell good. Yes.

Rachel Richards: 26:45

So I guess you know, there are reasons why this might be going on. So number one, she might be lazy. Yeah, just doesn't really doesn't really matter to her. She might think it's boring. There are other things that she could be doing. Difficulty in adjusting to puberty. It's a big, big change. And I think we very often because we forget how it felt for us. And we look at it and think, Well, it's pretty obvious what you should be doing. But I don't remember my parents telling me what to do. No, I don't even I actually admittedly didn't really explain it in any formal way to my daughters, one of whom picked it up much better than the other. And the other one needed a lot more coaching. Yeah, no,

Susie Asli: 27:25

I've not, I don't think I've ever explicitly sat them down and said this is now what happens. But little bits along the way.

Rachel Richards: 27:31

When you go from your parents taking responsibility for your personal hygiene to actually having to do it yourself. That's when you really get the choice. Not Yes. And it is a choice to an extent, that's called personal hygiene for a reason. And I

Susie Asli: 27:44

guess it can feel a bit overwhelming. If you've had it taken care of, you know, for years and years, suddenly, you're like, Oh, God, I didn't How do I wash my own hair? You know, if you've got long hair, or whatever the situation is? So maybe a bit of guidance? I'm not sure I did that with mine, apart from the shaving bit. But yeah, take a take hold him taking all the emotion out of it. It's not it's not a personal criticism. It's just biology.

Rachel Richards: 28:07

Yes. And so supporting them saying, Oh, I can see that, you know, did you want some help with understanding how best to use the shower, you know, which soaps should be used when the wives soap is important. There is an element of there are certain people who will struggle more with personal hygiene than others, you know, people with disorders of any type, you know, and if you have they have autism, or ADHD, or any of these things, it can play into this. So there will be parents who have problems with their children trying to get them to do these things. So it's also about not judging other parents, when they've got children who are living the life that they want to

Susie Asli: 28:48

maybe sort of thinking of it as a, as a natural consequence thing in that, you know, explaining, it's, you know, it's your choice to wash or not, but if you do smell, then, you know, it might be that people don't want to sit next to you in class, or they might not want to hang out with you. And you know, doing it without the judgment, but just as a fact, you know that that could be what happens. So just being aware of that, because, you know, nobody wants to sit next to the stinky kid.

Rachel Richards: 29:17

Nobody wants to or the one with halitosis I've had that. Didn't like it. And actually there is a real phobia. So a polluter phobia is a fear of showering or bathing. So there is actually a thing, but I'm sure most most most and not suffering from this. So I think and also it may be that we know I remember looking back at being a teenager, I I was very conscious that other people might be looking at me. But I didn't necessarily I was still living in my own little world. And I wonder the extent to which teens really understand that other people notice.

Susie Asli: 29:51

Yeah, exactly. That's why it's so important to have pardon the pun good clean communication. So that it's not a Uh, you know, it's not an emotional issue. It's just, it's just this is your this is my feed back to you. I remember my two had had COVID. And they lost the totally lost their sense of smell for a really long time, actually. And so you know, they would check in with me, do I smell? I can't smell myself Do I smell today? And I'd go yes, start at the back of the kitchen and get your armpit as my face.

Rachel Richards: 30:24

And that's a really, really great point, because actually, the thing that is very easy for us to forget is the impact that the lockdown has had on our teenagers. For many of our teenagers, they will have gone through two years, where the normal rhythm of life didn't happen at a critical point. So they weren't getting feedback from other teenagers. They didn't have a rhythm they didn't you know, why should I get up and shower if no one's even going to see me? Yes. So it's actually really important that we become conscious that these things won't have necessarily happened and that it's worth going through with them.

Susie Asli: 30:58

They maybe haven't had the natural feedback from their peers. Yes, yes.

Rachel Richards: 31:02

So what can we do, I've been thinking about this, and I, I don't really have a problem with this. But if I were to be struggling with it, what I would do is I would actually go through my own personal hygiene routine. And note the time that these things can take. So that you know the lazy the two, I haven't got time for it, whatever, I've got those times down. So two minutes of brushing your teeth in the morning to at night, write a list down, and then I would sit them down. And I'd say so here's how it works for me, you know, if it's a if it's a boy, he'll be shaving his face, if it's a girl, you know, whatever. And then go through what I consider to be the non negotiables. And when I say consider to be obviously brushing your teeth, because of the problems with gingivitis and the long term health impact, both in terms of your teeth, and then now finding out more and more that it can impact other areas of health in your body. It's really problematic. Yes. So yeah. So flossing and brushing the teeth is critical. So I would go through what I consider to be absolutely non negotiable. And then other things that you know, look, you view find time you tell me, you know, it's not my responsibility for making you do these things. But here's how you can do them. Are there things that you don't really you'd like to ask about?

Susie Asli: 32:22

And we, of course, we don't want them to go the other way either, which is a whole other exactly of you know, washing all the time. But that's that's not coming from necessarily not wanting to smell that says control issues. Yes. But you know, we don't want to push them anywhere.

Rachel Richards: 32:36

Yes. And I think I coming back to the sort of education element of it. You know, I didn't have a great relationship with shit with my parents. And I imagine that if they had sat down with me, if my mother had sat down with me, and she'd done it in a loving, caring way, I would have taken notice, I might have grumbled and groan. But I probably would have taken the sheet away and read it and thought, okay, I get this. I remember when I used to go as an older teenager to people's houses or away on trips, and I these girls would have these bags with sips that were pretty and they'd smell nice. And I'd look inside. And I think what's what's in? Because I'd never been told, I've never been given a hat, you know, personal health care kit, in a way. So it's one of those things where some parents is obvious that you do that other parents you think, well, they should know. But yeah, should they? Should they

Susie Asli: 33:26

really? Yeah. And then if there's an issue, you can you can bring it up in a in a helpful way. And I am thinking of, of kids who don't just, you know, really dislike sharing, or they are it's a problem. It could also, you know, be relational that this is a bit like food isn't it could be a control thing when you have to do all these things. But you know, what can you what can you not do? What can you say no to you or I can not get in the bath Can I can not get in the shower that's under my control.

Rachel Richards: 33:52

So it's Defiance is a very important point to bring up. Because it could be the way they're one way of proving that they have control over their own body. So the way in which we talk to them about it has got to play a very big role in this.

Susie Asli: 34:06

That's why natural consequences, you know, you might find that people don't want to hang out with you. And you know, that's your that's then it's your gig, but this is what might happen. And then

Rachel Richards: 34:15

we'll also that, you know, we were talking about manners last time, and actually, what you do when you walk into a room humming, and I'm not talking about musical Humming Is that you've now created a problem for every other person in that room, because they have to try and think do I tell the person that they're offensive? Or do I have to sit? Do I try and find another? You know, you're actually really really causing problems for other people without possibly knowing it? Yeah. So this is where man has come in. So as a parent, I you know, I'm not that bothered, but I'm telling you now it's really offensive to other people and unkind.

Susie Asli: 34:54

Yeah. And I think often people who do have a problem with the way they smell they often don't know, don't

Rachel Richards: 35:01

know. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And you can outsource it, you can get books on it. Bring in a family valued family member who they look up to, or just, you know, role model somebody who talks about hygiene, perhaps I don't know, just, you know, if you're finding it's a tricky thing for you to go into, or, for example, you are a mother of boys, and it's hard sometimes to you know, Have you cleaned under your scrutiny? Could be an awkward question.

Susie Asli: 35:30

Yes. I mean, this the shaving thing. Actually, I had his the might. I got a 17 year old and he's been shaving for ages. And I remember sort of having discussions with duty, you know, do you know how to do it? You know, do you want to do Do you need any help? And he was like, No, kind of, and he did it just did it himself. But there's there's the nurturing element unity know how to do it? Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 35:54

And it can make them feel like you're challenging me. Yeah. But yeah. If you flagged it up, then you can say, Look, I'm not telling you how to do it. But you can look on YouTube, YouTube videos on how to do. So yes, I think just having a list of staff and just very gently lightly working through it and saying, so these are the things and this is why, because also explaining why. So I was in a cafe the other day, and I noticed three teens coming in older teens, and the girl gorgeous girl, one of the guys dressed very neatly, very neatly groomed, young man. And then the third one he was, you know, I noticed his belt was an interesting buckle. And then he was wearing these sort of slouchy trousers that looked like they came from a charity shop, interesting jacket. And then his hair was matted, really, I mean, it wasn't brushed. But I just thought, why does he look sexy, and I not upon pinion about this TV, it was I was trying to get my head around what it is about somebody who doesn't necessarily go through all the grooming routines. I mean, I'm married to a man who grooms very carefully. But you know, there's an element of it's kind of I don't care Yeah, about it. And that's attractive to some teenagers. So, you know, you have to sort of step into their world and go, Okay, I can see why they would do that. But maybe we have to explain. So why is this so important. And if you can't really give a good answer to it, then maybe pick your battles. So the tooth brushing is vital, it's on

Susie Asli: 37:20

hygienic, or it's affecting other people's and explaining that.

Rachel Richards: 37:23

Now, when it comes to my teens, I have a really relaxed attitude to how they choose to dress and present themselves. But the one thing I've always talked about is grooming. And how the way we treat ourselves and maintain our own appearance tells other people how they should treat us. So for example, when I'm ill, I don't wash my hair, I always know that I'm on the mend when I want to get back in the shower and lather up my head. So it's worth looking at how our teenager feels about themselves. Because poor hygiene can be a signal that I didn't know they're depressed, or they don't want to appear attractive because of unwanted attention. Or it could be just a much deeper issue to do with their own sense of self worth. And one last thing, there was a man called Kevin Van Horn, who mentioned his situation because he said I was a very sweaty teenager, I was an athlete. And I didn't really even think about how much I stunk. And until I ended up they didn't know what people had said, you stink. And he's like, marinating is greed. And he realized, and they really didn't think it really is that they think it smells good to them, because it's their own odor. And they're used to it. Anyway, he shared a room with another guy. And that made him wake up because that was really quite unpleasant. And he said, he finally realized it was actually his diet that was causing the really offensive odors, because he was on a heavy carb diet. And it was, you know, wasn't very good with his microbiome. So he started looking after his microbiome, and he said, the smell reduced dramatically amazing. So there's an element of of, you know, when we look at it, it's it's not necessarily always that they're not practicing good hygiene, or they're not using soap. It could be other things that are causing the really offensive odors. And it's

Susie Asli: 39:10

interesting to me, it's such a big difference. Well, he

Rachel Richards: 39:12

said it I mean, I wasn't active via drop yogurts, meaning there were lots of podcasts on the you know, there's the gut ology podcast, if you want to listen to stuff about the gut, microbiome and how important it is. There are ways you can find this information that can possibly help your team. So those teenage years can be really tricky when it comes to relationships. And if your teen isn't stinky, but they're still struggling with making new friends, maybe they've moved schools or they've gone to university or do they simply notice that they'd like more friends? What advice do we give them? We'll talk about this next time.

Susie Asli: 39:45

Yeah, that's a good one. That's interesting. I think we all need a bit of that. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 39:51

More friends. Yes.

Susie Asli: 39:52

I wish I'd had that advice when I was younger, because it's, it's hard.

Rachel Richards: 39:56

It is hard. We've all struggled a bit with that, you know, occasionally You get kids who just seem to breeze through life without having to think about it most kids, but then

Susie Asli: 40:05

most kids look to them and think that they're normal and they're not

Rachel Richards: 40:07

and they're not normal. Now. Also smile if you know an entitled teen isn't a friend's offspring, or has this species somehow moved into your own home? How does it happen and what can we do to fix it? We'll talk about that next time to be well that's it for now. Don't forget to subscribe so that you don't miss an episode review us so that other people can find us more easily. Tell your friends and send us any questions that you have. You can also reach Susie via her own website, which is

Susie Asli: 40:38

a mindful hyphen Life dot code UK.

Rachel Richards: 40:42

Fantastic. Until next time, goodbye. Goodbye for now.