11: Lone parenting, and the moody teenager who's affecting everyone.

Rachel Richards: 0:03

Hello, I'm Rachel Richards former BBC correspondent and parenting coach with two teenagers and two stepdaughters and you're listening to teenagers on tackle. Joining us is my co host, SusieAsli, qualified mindfulness coach, psychotherapist, and parent of three teenagers. Hi, Rachel. For those of you listening in the bar, switch off the hot tap, lean back, and let's begin. Coming up later in this episode, we talk about moody teenagers. How do you deal with it? And when is it actually a problem that needs help? But first in the UK, according to the Office for National Statistics, there were 2.9 million lone parent families in 2020, which accounts for just under 14% of families. But that's not all. There are lots of parents who feel like they are working alone, either because their partner is away or takes little interest. Yes, that's still a thing. Now Susie, you have been a lone parent for much of your children's life. But when it comes to teenagers, we're moving into a whole new territory, aren't we? Yeah, definitely.

Susie Asli: 1:04

I mean, I've parented alone since I have twins, since they were 15 months, and my eldest was just four. So yeah, for years. They don't remember it being different. But yes, when they become teenagers it does, it changes a lot, actually.

Rachel Richards: 1:19

So I'm a step parent. So I do have the different side to this. I feel both really unqualified. And I really don't know anything about this. But at the same time, I do feel qualified to an extent because I've had to deal with all the emotional baggage that goes with this. And this the teenage years with my stepdaughters, which is when it really became fraught, because I think when they were younger, they come and stay with us. And we'd read them bedtime stories, and we're doing fun things with them. But when they become teenagers, you get this sort of rage at times where they they're starting to do their own thing. And they're not prepared to listen to your rules. And they want to they're pushing boundaries. And they're sort of I'm the woman and I've got teenage I had teenage stepdaughters, and they would just, you know, borrow my bikini, chuck it on the floor wet and you know, you just feel really offended.

Susie Asli: 2:11

Yeah, I think step parenting is very, very tricky. And hats off to all step parents, really, I think it's a minefield. I think as with most things in life, there are definite pluses and minuses to parenting alone. Both when they're little. And with teenagers, I mean, there's the you know, the classic. You know, you're you're doing it all yourself, which is overwhelming at times, you know, on a physical level, and on an emotional level, because you're not you don't have anyone to chat stuff through with. Or you do have friends or partners or family or whatever. But it's not the other parents, it's different. And the plus is also that you're doing it all on your own sometimes. I mean, sometimes it's easier. Because you can make your own decisions. And you can, you don't have to, yeah, it's more simple sometimes. So there are definitely pluses and minuses, I think, I mean, my children, they their dad lives abroad. So for us, it's, it's a bit different from maybe other other families. So they are with me, most of the time. And then they they go to their dad in Denmark for holidays, or holiday time. So when they were little, that was kind of exciting and easy. As they get older, they have other things here. So it becomes more complicated. And I know I'm not alone in that. And it's not just because they live their lives abroad, they have things they want to do with their mates, they don't want to miss out. So it becomes a bit like, oh, it's can be a bit of a dilemma for them, they want to see their dad, they want to spend time with him. And they don't want to miss out on the stuff here. So they start to push back a bit on whether they go or at all and for how long and all of that. And it becomes complicated. And it's

Rachel Richards: 3:59

easy for the other parent to feel that it's actually about them. Whereas it's not it's actually it's about the teenager, now wanting to form their own groups of friends and doing things with their friends in the holidays. And that happens whether you're in this particular situation, or whether you I'm seeing other parents now saying, oh my, my teenagers don't want to be with us on our holidays. And this is a very difficult transition anyway, it's increased.

Susie Asli: 4:27

Yeah, and it's difficult for the kids because they they feel really torn. They definitely you know, they don't they want to be with the other parent. Of course, they you know, they miss them, they want to see them and they also know that the other parent wants to see them. So they don't want to disappoint and they want to be a normal teenager and be with their mates. So it's quite kind of tricky to navigate sometimes because we have to as parents if we can which is really hard, be really emotionally mature in it and see it from their perspective and try and not take it personally or or be too disappointed if they don't want to spend that time with us, which is really hard.

Rachel Richards: 5:02

And I there was a really heartbreaking exchange I saw which was between a parent who said she was really angry about the way her child was behaving, her children hadn't done their jobs at home, and they'd gone away for the weekend with their father. And she felt like she was just having to do everything at home. And they were not contributing at all, even though they were teenagers. And they knew what the the role was, they were supposed to be putting their linen in the linen basket, and they just left everything all over the room. And one mother responded and said, Actually, I was that teenager having to go to another parents house. And it's really stressful, because you're living out of a bag all the time. And every weekend, you're somewhere else. And she said, you know, this is this is a very upsetting thing for some teenagers. And there was another person who pitched in and said, when I was 15, I moved in with my father. And that was that was it my, you know, my mother wasn't involved. And we burned my bag. And the bag symbolized all the transient movements and the difficulty of having to be in one house in it, you know, it's like living out of a suitcase when you're in a hotel. So there is an element of that. It can be

Susie Asli: 6:18

I think there can be different children and for different circumstances. Absolutely. Why hence on how they deal with that, and how the parents manage it, I think as well, yes, different. But definitely there can be an element of that,

Rachel Richards: 6:28

yes. And adolescents tend to want to move away from the control of their parents. So there will be an element of pushback. And when you're a lone parent, you know, it can be that they will take advantage of your situation. So they might ask the other parent for something. Oh, totally. I mean, it's almost like when you say you need to obey your parent, they go which one? Yeah, and this can happen, you know, whether you're the lone parent, or whether your partner is constantly away, and you're having to make these decisions.

Susie Asli: 7:04

Yeah, I think it's very different. And it really does depend on on the, the nature of the co parenting, and that can range from you know, that it works really, really well. And, you know, the parents are emotionally able and mature enough to, to do it in a really helpful, you know, healthy way, right down to you know, that there is really very little cooperation and very little correspondence, actually. And so then you really are doing it on your own. And then there's not the conversation even about it, which, again, has pluses and minuses. Because there's no, in the for the kids, I think for the kids, then it becomes there really smart kids. They really know what's going on, they might not like everything. But they know, if there's a game to be played, they, you know, they know what that looks like. And I think we just have to always just deal with the cards were given. Because I think we can spend a lot of time, especially in a situation that's not ideal, wishing for things to be different from how they are. And that's from a mindfulness perspective as well, you know, we all the resistance we experience in life is actually wishing for things to be different from the way that they are. And that doesn't mean that we should just accept everything and roll over and go, Oh, well, never mind. It just means that when we were resisting it and wishing that or maybe it should be better, maybe it could be different. Maybe it could be this way or that way, is a bit of a waste of energy. So if we can really go okay, this is how it is? How can I deal with what I've got right now and help my kids to be with what is right now? In the best possible way? Then that's a good starting point.

Rachel Richards: 8:45

And would you be using mindfulness techniques or things like that? So you know, you've got a situation where one parent has said, Oh, well, you know, yes, you can have your phone unlimited you. So the other parent is saying, No, we need to control this situation like that. Well, how would you help a parent cope? When they feel that they're being undermined by the other parent as

Susie Asli: 9:05

well? It's a really good question. Yeah, I really lean on my mindfulness massively. And I think it's a really good way to separate you know, how much of this is triggering me as a person and as, you know, maybe there's fallout from, from the, you know, the old relationship, which there always is, and I mean, I used to be pretty judgmental, actually, before. Before I got divorced, I would be, you know, looking at parents who'd got divorced, and they seem to be making a bit of a hash of it, in my humble opinion, and, you know, Why could they not just park their rubbish and, you know, get on with it for the kids. So that was really, surely surely that's obvious, right? And then it happens to you. And it's really, really hard. It's really, really painful. And depending on you know, why your relationship broke down and all of the ins and outs, but it's really hard and it's very, very triggering. So Mindfulness is very. And it's learning our own triggers what's triggering me? Is that something to do something that's really old? It's triggering me with my ex? So I can deal with that myself? Or is it something to do with the kids in this moment? And how can I manage that, but it's always building, you know, building that buffer zone between our trigger our knee jerk reaction, which can be really strong in in a painful situation like that. And going away from the situation, taking a breath, you know, literally leaving the room, if you have to taking a breath so that you can come back, you

Rachel Richards: 10:36

don't have to do things. I mean, you do have to say, it's, that's a very interesting point. And I think, for me, as someone who's parented, in a way, where I had a partner who literally was emotionally and mentally absent from the I think the experience that I've had means that I've learned communication, that's very clear, no expecting, if you kind of think that person should have anticipated this, and this is what I need. But I haven't actually been very clear about it, then you can't really expect them, particularly if it's somebody you're divorced from. But even when it's your partner, if you're not prepared to say, well, this is really what I need. And I'm being clear about it, then it's not you're gonna get nowhere to where that can happen. Yes. So you know, when I've parent, when I've coached parents, where they've got two people who parent in very different styles, it's often about trying to say to them, so you need to actually sit back and think what, what actually matters to me here and take pick your battles. But when you do have an important thing that needs to be done or said or negotiated, Don't be emotional about it, you need to actually write it down and say, Okay, you can say, well, here are my emotions about it. But here are the facts. And here's what I need to convey, and then explain it. And I found that by being much clearer about what I want, has made a big difference to getting what I

Susie Asli: 12:01

want. That's a really, really good point. I really like that, because we get really emotional with it. I mean, I definitely have done that. Even Yeah, and even though I've been doing this for years, it's still you know, still I still, it's a massive red flag. But to take, try and take the emotion out. Because when I think when we were co parenting or whatever name you want to give it when you when you're divorced, and parents are not living together. There's a lot of practical logistics involved. And emotions aren't really helpful. But they obviously gets totally tangled up in that. But there's a lot of logistics, I mean, like it's going abroad, there's a lot of logistics. And, yeah, taking the emotions out is a really good thing to try and do

Rachel Richards: 12:44

and just just writing a list of all the things you're having to do, and then saying, Well, what are the what are the easy fruit here that I can hand over? That's not about a power struggle with my little partner, or it's actually something where I can find someone else can who can fit in with this, even if it's a friend or somebody, you know, trying to just offload some of those difficult things?

Susie Asli: 13:05

And what yeah, what can I let go of emotionally as well? Because I think we have and it's all about expectations, isn't it? Like you were saying it's our expectations, as well as the you know, the communication of them, but our expectations from a starting point. And I've had to really, over the years, you know, look at because when they are with their dad, you know that they're with a dad, and that's different, you know, that's not going to be as I do at home? And if I'm trying to make it that way or being frustrated in any way. Who's that helping? Who's that serving? Nobody, it's just really getting on my nerves. So what can I let go of? And I actually got to the point when they were younger, where, where I thought, okay, they are loved. And they're safe. The end? Yeah, that's it. Yes. Everything else. Is details. Such a great point. And

Rachel Richards: 13:55

I think that it's hard to practice. But there are benefits also to them being in an environment, which is a bit different. Yeah. Because I mean, it is hard, because teenagers will say, Well, you know, who Who should I be listening to? But at the same time, you can say no, I see the rules this way, for this reason. Your other parents sees them this way. He has his own reasons. And I can see and actually the teenager starts to see that there aren't black and white. Yes. So in some ways, if you acknowledge that and say, no, they're wrong. Yeah. That you don't see that you actually say, well, actually, they're just doing it differently. I live can be done differently. The thing is, you have to think what's best and I'm doing what I think's best for you, then somehow you can navigate that in a positive way so that they learn to pick and choose what matters.

Susie Asli: 14:44

I actually think it can be a massive gift because I think you can have it like you say you have two different were two different cultures. I mean, mine have actual different cultures because it's a different country, but each family has its own culture. And when we're only in one we think that's the normal and that's How the whole world is, which is also okay. It's that's how I was brought up. But I think it's a gift to say, Okay, well, oh, they do it differently here and they do it differently here. Ergo, there must be lots of ways of living like that, suddenly the whole world has opened up. And when they become teenagers, they are really able to see that. Okay, well, dad does it that way. Mom does it that way. And as you say, if you explain it? Well, you know, I'm sure dad absolutely has his reasons for doing that. Even if you don't know what they are, even if you disagree, you can go. I don't know what they are. I'm but and I'm sure he has his reasons. And this is how we do it here. Yes, they get it,

Rachel Richards: 15:38

like talking in all first podcasts where you can have a child that's very messy, and a child that's actually really careful with everything they've got. And if you're very messy, and then they go into another house, where it's much more tidy, the really tiny child will say, Oh, I feel more Yes, I get it, actually, that it doesn't make you a good bad person or a bad person, it just makes you different. And being in an environment where you're more at home can be a relief. So yeah, and it

Susie Asli: 16:04

breeds flexibility, which is really, really, really good thing.

Rachel Richards: 16:07

Now I want to talk about dating and having someone else in the relationship. And one of the things that I did see in terms of male and female role models was you know, there's not somebody around, so whether they're traveling a lot, because they're in the army, or they're, they're working away a lot, or they're just not there, then the absent most of the time, having so you know, let's say you're male at home, and you've got the the wife's out at work all the time. And you're trying to give role models, you're trying to explain how the world works, because teenagers are now thinking, Okay, what kind of adult am I going to be? What kind of relationships will I form? You know, who am I who are my people I'm looking up to, if that other person's away all the time, you need to be looking for opportunities to be positive about the opposite sex, particularly if the other person is toxic with you, or in that relationship? So rather than say, oh, you know, they're all like that, you really need to say, oh, but there's this other man, who does this, or there's this other woman who's working like that. So there are lots of ways to be a woman. Yes, there are lots of ways to be a man. And also, you know, I'm not the only woman in the world. And the way that I'm living my life is just, you know, a function of how my life has panned out.

Susie Asli: 17:21

Yeah, yeah, I think that's really important. I mean, I did find it when, when the kids were younger, and and they have, you know, different developmental phases. And we're talking about teenagers. And, and I have two boys and a daughter. And for the boys, I was always really aware of trying to find them male role models, because, you know, they're in a school environment where the uniform quite lucky they had some male teachers, but when they were younger, you know, it's predominantly female. But they do have male, but but also, you know, friends, dads, and it's really important. I find that quite tricky, actually. And I'm not sure I, I was super successful with it, but it was definitely an awareness I had because they, they go through developmental stages where they need the same sex as a mirror, as you know, how do I be, man? Yes. And they have got a dad, of course, but there was, you know, they see him for much less a little time.

Rachel Richards: 18:16

Yes. chunks of time. So when it comes to dating, I know that your new relationship is is, is not that old? And how did how have you navigated having a new partner or, you know, dating in the past?

Susie Asli: 18:33

Yeah, interesting question. I haven't checked with him I talked about. Okay, so just know, we've been really careful. Actually. We've been he has children. And it's divorced. And we've been really aware and, and careful, because it's, it's, I mean, they're older. It's very, very different. So they are, there's more time now. And I think we talked, we talked about it earlier in in previous podcast about how suddenly, your teenagers are off, and you suddenly have time on your hands. And I think that's even more exaggerated. What it was for me anyway, because I was with three small kids for years on my own. That was my life. And then suddenly, they're off doing their own thing. And I was deaf going, oh, I need to get a life. Trying date. And, yeah, so we've been we've been really cautious and careful and it's it's really lovely. Actually, the kids are amazing. They're brilliant. And I kind of I think there's a slight element of relief that might mean someone lying.

Rachel Richards: 19:39

That's a really good point.

Susie Asli: 19:40

That's a really good point. It's, it's really fun and they're enjoying it. It's really, really good.

Rachel Richards: 19:46

So for me, I met my stepdaughters father when they were very little so I've been through the entire thing. I didn't meet them as teenagers, but I have been through the teenage years and from what I've read girls who have a stepmother that's one of the most difficult things to navigate because there's the jealousy, the feeling that they're, I mean, you know, one of my stepdaughters when she was very little, just kept saying she didn't want me there. And, you know, when I picked her up, put her on my knee, and I said, why why do you feel like that, sweetie? She said, because then my daddy wrote it up for me. And it was very sweet because it was really poignant. Because she could be she could express it. And I said, Darling, that's impossible for your daddy to not love you. But, you know, a teenager probably won't say that. They'll just act out in other ways.

Susie Asli: 20:33

Yeah. And have to have antennae out. I mean, particularly with my daughter, I'm really aware. We're both really well, he's brilliant at being aware of that. So that she doesn't feel because we're quite close. And we do spend time together with the boys as well. But it's different. I think it's a bit different. That that she doesn't feel that somebody's coming in and, and taking taking me away from her that it's an addition not a not a deficit.

Rachel Richards: 20:58

And that's the key, isn't it is that they need to feel it's an addition. But there's this very important understanding that I read again, it was in a talk with Eric, Sigmund. And all those years ago, when I said, Oh, that I'm seeing some concerning behavior for my stepdaughters. What do you think? And he said, I'm just going to tell you now, you don't really have much control there. You know, you are the step mother, this is not the same thing as being a parent. And you need to understand that and navigating, it's going to be much more complex. And in a way, you kind of have to accept that you're not. And you need to be asked to be their parent. Yes, they need to make that decision, not the other way round. And you're never going to I've said to my stepdaughters, I'm not your mom, I'm never going to be your mom. No, you know, and, and that's okay. Yeah, I'm not trying to do that.

Susie Asli: 21:46

No, I think when they're little, it's very different. I mean, I haven't been a step parent. When when my kids were little, so I don't know what that was, would have been like. But I think when they're 21, now they're teenagers, I think it's very different, because they are, they're just a different stage developmentally, they don't need another parent come in and nurture them sort of physically in that way anymore. So it's more of a friendship based thing. And I think that can be really beautiful if you never go. And I think for the kids, it's a sort of balance for mine anyway, I can only talk about my own a balance between they want me to be with somebody because they can see that that's really nice for me, and they're also offering their own thing. They don't nobody wants to think of their mum sort of sat around him. Not that I was like a lot of friends, just putting, but you know that it's a nice thought for them that I'm not on my own. And I'm still their mum, and we have been this really tight units for years. So oh, what's that? Like? How's that going to work? I remember my daughter coming in, I was having a shower. Once it was it was she was a bit younger. And, and I had had a relationship that had ended and I had we talked about it. And then we talked about oh, you know, find someone else. And you know, just wait and see. And she just came in mom, you know that you're going to find someone else. It's not going very well is it? Oh, I just rode with Latos funniest thing I've ever heard. I know. But there's this element that they want it they want, they want you to be happy. They want you as a parent to be happy.

Rachel Richards: 23:22

Well, hopefully, that simple. I know somebody who has taken on the children of her partner, who have been very damaged by the relationship with a mother who, in fact, the court has ruled that they can't have access to her and the teenagers. And it's very, very, very difficult. And the one thing I said to her when she because she said, You know, I'm trying to I'm having to parent them, I've got no choice about it. And the difficulty I've got is I've got two teenagers who've been brought up by me in the house. And then I've got these two teenagers who've had this chaotic upbringing, and it's really complicated and difficult. And she said, you know, whenever I try and tell them, they need to do something, I get the eye roll, and I get the back chat and the and I the only advice I could give her was to couch every time she says, you know, you need to do this. And they should get some pushback as to say, Isn't it awful to have somebody who really cares about you and your life? I'm not your mom, I know. But I actually really care and I'm trying to do the best for you. So that you turn into a human being that feels successful. And that's the best you can you know, it's about sort of just saying being explicit about what you're trying to do. You're not trying to crush their nascent power in their adulthood is that actually you just as another pair another person in the home who can be there for them? Yeah.

Susie Asli: 24:43

And they will see that because you know, teenagers will have, they will push back, they'll push back with whatever. That's a really, really difficult situation to be in but they will hear it and it will go in.

Rachel Richards: 24:53

Yes. Yes. This is it's that. I think what often happens with parents that I talked to is they say up My teenager won't tell me anything, oh, she's don't believe your teenager isn't listening, just don't believe it when they look emotionally closed off, or they're just like, Oh, my mom's always in the inside, they're crying out for love and attention. So you just have to like your fantastic mantra, it's not personal, it's not personal. You have to sort of just keep checking in with them saying, okay, you know, where are we now. So if you've got a new partner, don't bring them in immediately. So I was dating my husband for six months before I met his children, even though they were little. And he was immediately keen for me to meet them. And I said, they don't need a parade of women going through their life, they need stability. So we need to know that we're in a relationship for definite before this, this this, we start introducing children into this mix. And so and I think that's still the case with teenagers, because they're looking at what you're doing. How is my parent is not happy? How is my dad treating other women? How is how is my mum dating? And they are constantly taking cues from how you behave? Absolutely,

Susie Asli: 26:09

absolutely. I think that's absolutely critical. And also to build the basis of a good good family home life. I spoke to all my kids, not so much my eldest, because it was it was just seems to be less relevant. He has a girlfriend and who stays over. So you know, we did have a conversation but with with my twins, I spoke to them both on their own and said, This is what's I'm thinking we're thinking of is it? How do you feel about that? Not even is that alright with you? But how, you know, how do you feel about that? And they reacted? Amazingly, they were brilliant. And each time just, you know, for for quite a long time to start with. Is that alright with you? How do you feel until it wasn't necessary anymore? But they really appreciated it. I mean, my my boy made joke to start with, he was like, Yeah, it's fine. Is this is his family therapy. But he did appreciate

Rachel Richards: 27:01

it. You want it to be family? Yeah.

Susie Asli: 27:07

But I explained it in a way that, you know, we've been here before of us as this, you know, a very close knit unit unit, thank you. And somebody else coming in, however, that looks like you know, whether it's for a little bit, a lot, whatever. You know, we're in this together, how do you feel it, I just want everyone to feel comfortable. But I don't want to also ask too many questions and make it weird the other way. So it's about

Rachel Richards: 27:35

one of the other things is, you know, in terms of, if you get a blended family, the teenagers, it's really important not to just look at them as free babysitting, for example, because they will just end up resenting the situation. And I'd love some tips from you, because of your mindfulness background on how parents who are, you know, they feel the, the huge stress of being a single parent or lone parent, or, you know, what, if your children are really overreacting, they're being teenagers, what kind of and your partner is being very difficult and doing things differently, are they are the key things that you tend to do to help yourself sort of cope and navigate? Yeah,

Susie Asli: 28:14

definitely. Sometimes more successfully than others. I mean, locked down was quite stressful. With three teenagers. Totally, just the four of us. And at the same time, my eldest had very horrible back issues. So it was quite stressful time. And, and obviously, we couldn't escape and vent with other people. So yeah, it was really relevant then and and it's just basics that are doable. So even I mean, I've practiced mindfulness for years, and I've, you know, tools, but you can do really quick things. And I used it even yesterday, I was having a conversation with with my eldest, which was a bit of a tricky conversation. And I said, you know, we were both a bit. And I said, right, I'd speak to you, I just need five minutes of your time. And I went into his bedroom. And I just backtracked, and went, actually, do you know what I need to go away and think about what I want to say, I'm not ready to talk right now. I'll come back in 1015 minutes. And he was like, Okay, that's good. And we did. So we had a calm conversation rather than

Rachel Richards: 29:22

I love that. We, you know, whether you're at loggerheads, one to one with the other parent, whether you're with your child and you're trying to navigate something very difficult. We have this tendency in this quick response culture, that we have to say something immediately, you know, it's actually great to step away and think, okay, really what's going on here, and then

Susie Asli: 29:42

go away and think yes, and he really appreciated that he was like, okay, that's fine. So doing that, and not you don't have to answer you don't have to fix things immediately. And it's often not very helpful. Yes, take a breath, you know, get balanced. You're nervous because our nervous system goes into spasms. And it's rebalancing that. And that is through the breath.

Rachel Richards: 30:05

And I think an interesting one would be, because I've read a lot of about journaling and and how helpful that can be. And one of the big complaints I've heard from people who've lived as teenagers with divorcing parents, is that one of the parents will vent to the teenager about the other parent. And we'll come on to this next week, because I have some great fun thing about what kind of parent are you, you know, there's parenting styles. And you don't want to be the friend, you're not a friend, your parents. So it's really important that you don't keep telling the teenager, the terrible things the other parent don't don't talk about that you need another way to vent. And so you need to actively think right, I'm going to need a release valve, where's it going to be? Because it can't be the teenager because you will push them away?

Susie Asli: 30:55

Well, it's just it's also it's on another level is only painful for them to hear painful to hear bad things about the other parent, because they love both parents. They might even have a difficult relationship with one of the parents, but they love them. And it's only really painful for them to hear bad things. It's really confusing and never useful. And that's

Rachel Richards: 31:16

part of their that's half of their DNA. Yeah. So you're saying stuff that sounds like it's part of who that person is.

Susie Asli: 31:22

And it's so tempting. Like, oh, my God, it's tempting. And you know, you give, of course they pick up on if something if something bigger is up, and it's difficult, then, of course, they pick up on it. But they also hear the words you're using, and they you know, it's really important that we can be emotionally mature enough to not do that.

Rachel Richards: 31:42

Yes. Are you a single parent or just having to fly solo a lot of the time? What kind of stresses do you have to deal with? who's got your back when things are tough? Do you allow yourself time out in the week, we'd love to hear from you. Find us on Facebook, Instagram, or help at teenagers untangle.com. Now Simon is living with what some people might call a typical teenager. He says My son is mostly moody with the odd spell of thunder that brings everyone down, what can I do about it? And how do I know if it's just typical teenager, or something worse. Now, I've done some research on this, it's really interesting, because the changes that happen in the teenage brain start when the hypothalamus releases a protein called kisspeptin. And this triggers the pituitary gland to release testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone. And those hormones are the things that stimulate the changes we recognize in puberty. Now, these high levels of hormones make them Ultra responsive. So you know, there's no other time in your life where this quantity of hormones and on slightly unbalanced hormones are coming out. And so for example, if they hear a sad song, they're going to feel much more intensely about that. And I remember that the book high fidelity, where, obviously, I can't remember the author's name, but he was just saying, I don't know, if I'm sad, because the songs I'm listening to a sad, or whether I'm listening to sad songs, because I'm sad. And it sums up teenage years, listening to these really depressing lyrics, and I was impatient mode.

Susie Asli: 33:17

Yeah. And it feels a bit delicious, doesn't it to feel that horrible plastic that

Rachel Richards: 33:22

knife and a bit harder and fry a bit and what you know, it's just, it's very funny so that we this is something we all recognize, and almost all of us have gone through. And teenagers are also prone to high levels of anxiety. And they're not just being dramatic. There's the hormone and low pregnenolone, which is released in the brain, in times of stress, it calms us down. But this hormone changes during puberty mean that it can actually have the opposite effect in teenagers. That's interesting. Yeah. And the circadian rhythms which are being messed up because of the changes in the sleep pattern. And that, again, makes it harder for them to respond in a very level way. So we're asking a lot of our team. Yes. And the the advice, the main advice I got was, basically, educate your teen.

Susie Asli: 34:10

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great idea. I'm just definitely do you have moody teenager? Oh, yes. Really? Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 34:17

Totally might have thunderclouds to just pass Yeah. And then and then there's their tears and then it's gone.

Susie Asli: 34:24

Yeah, no, they've they've I mean, I have three and they're very different with their moods very different. And I think it's it's on different levels as most things you know, it's how do we respond to it? How does it trigger us, you know, that it's not personal mantras, I find helpful in that situation. If they're telling you to get lost and get out of your room, all of that kind of stuff, not personal, it's not personal. And then also helping them deal with it because it can be a bit overwhelming and frightening for them. I had one of my boys was, it was a while back now, but he'd get these waves of anger and he's not an angry kid at all. And It would be like I hit I don't know what's going on. I just don't know what's going on. And I found it helpful with minors to give the and it's, you know, part of my fondness as well, is the idea that everything's temporary. Nothing lasts forever, because we get fixed. And we always have this horrible feeling I'm going to have it for and this is who I am. Yes, yeah, this is who I am exactly. But it will pass. It's a phase, long phase, or it might last five minutes, but it will pass.

Rachel Richards: 35:25

And that's where the facts come in. So the facts about the hormones and then also, until about 15, or 20 years ago, it was assumed that teenage behavior was almost entirely down to those hormonal changes. It's not, it's because the brain when they've looked at the brain scans, they realize there's this massive rewiring that's going on in the brain. And this really impacts on so many areas of a teenager's life. So there's a fantastic YouTube video by Dan Siegel. It's called the adolescent brain, I really recommend. Everybody sits down with a teenager and just watches that because it's a really wonderful explanation.

Susie Asli: 36:00

That's brilliant advice. I think it's great to give them education about it. And I think it's also tuning into our own individual kids. I mean, it took me ages to me years to understand really understand that if they're in the middle of having a strop, just leave them alone.

Rachel Richards: 36:16

Yeah, absolutely.

Susie Asli: 36:17

I jump in and go What's up and tell me and I kind of help or whatever, or get triggered by myself. And you know, especially for one of my kids, she just needs to go away and be on her own. And then, and then I'll go to her or to come to me, and we talk about it then but not

Rachel Richards: 36:35

because they're surfing a wave, and you're and you're trying to crash the wave. They're kind of they need to just get through that that is our own needs to fix them. Yes. Because as parents is terrifying you want you look at your child, and I'm like, God, what's happening. But but everything I've read from psychotherapist is there's no harm is never a bad thing to say. Are you? Do you need any help? Yeah, I can see that things a little bit hard for you right now. Can I ask, did they push you away? You say that's okay. Yes. But I'm, I'm ready. You know, when you need to talk, I'm going to be around and maybe checking a zoo. So that will register you may get this really obnoxious response from them. But in their subconscious, they'll go, actually, my parents do care, someone cares, someone actually really notices and ask

Susie Asli: 37:20

them what do they need, they might not know, or leave them alone. And what I think I've done a few times, and I don't always ever, I fall in loads of times and get triggered and you know, but other times where I don't, you can leave them and you know, come up into their room, you know, maybe a few minutes later with a biscuit or a drink and just go you know, you're right. Do you what do you want to chat no fine, and then go away. And so that they really understand that you're not trying to pry you are just there. And you're

Rachel Richards: 37:47

not reacting you're not in don't get dragged into that. Because it's very easy to think, to panic and think I've got this, you know, moody, you stroppy and rude teenager and feel like you need to clamp down on it straightaway, because otherwise they're going to turn into the most awful adult and it's all a reflection. No, it's not

Susie Asli: 38:06

No, no, just just no can feel a bit shame. What have I done? Although I although setting boundaries is really good. And I actually did that yesterday with my eldest, you know, I get that you get annoyed when that happens. There's something that particularly triggers him and we talked about it before. And what you say I mean, he's the old announcer is unacceptable. It's not okay.

Rachel Richards: 38:26

Yes, absolutely. No, I love that, because it's important to couch it in that way. So yes, I understand. However, you need to find a better way of explaining it, yes. And encouraging your team to eat healthily for a mood boost. Because this has been an area that is really exciting in science, where they've started to understand that all those neurons that are in your brain, you've got the same thing going on in your gut. In fact, I think they say there are more, and which is extraordinary. So when they say your I just felt it in my gut, well, actually, that means that is meaningful, that's real. And the problem is that we've ignored our guts for you know, for millennia, probably, and what's been happening as you feed it food, thinking that that's just an evacuation tube, it's not. So talking to your child about healthy eating and how that can stabilize their hormones, it can stabilize their music, it can lift them, because you know, when we're feeling depressed, we reach for biscuit, you know, and it becomes a vicious cycle. There's an amazing podcast I've been listening to called gut ology, which really goes into the minutiae of what's going on in your gut in a really interesting way. And every one they give you top tips about how you can help your gut how you can feed it. So whilst this isn't a gut podcast, this is actually important that the whole nutrition thing is really important for teenagers because you are what you

Susie Asli: 39:48

eat. That's a brilliant tip. I'm gonna look that Picasa sounds

Rachel Richards: 39:51

good. Yeah. And then keeping calm is one of the best things so while your child is is right knows waves as you said, we somehow need to find ways where we can be the you know, we can be the beach. Yeah, that would that wave, we're the beach, okay, and we need to stay the beach, we can't get in the water too much, because it's just going to aggravate the situation really

Susie Asli: 40:15

ideally. And with the, you know, the caveat that we're not going to stay on as the beach or on the beach or no, we are going to jump in the water sometimes because we're human beings and to have compassion with that and then explain it afterwards. I've done that multiple times gone. That triggered me and I went crazy, or whatever happens. I'm sorry. And it's

Rachel Richards: 40:35

okay to do a video conversation. Yes. Okay. So in modeling it so content because look, I'm not perfect. I get things wrong. But you know what, I've come back in again, we're going to talk about this. And this mantra, you use. It's not personal. There's also this too shall pass. Yes. This is not going to be a permanent key, because it is that panic state of thinking, Oh, God, who is this? Who is this person? Yeah, they're turning into. It's not that's not the

Susie Asli: 41:02

person and also the idea of transition from mindfulness that, you know, our thoughts aren't always true. In fact, quite often, they're not. And we jump to the worst case scenario, because we have that negative bias in our minds. And we particularly with our children, because it's so triggering, it's so important to us, we jump to worst case scenario, and we have, you know, a catastrophe on our hands. And it's maybe not even that. So it's, you're just reminding ourselves, okay, is this actually true? Or did I just make all of that up?

Rachel Richards: 41:30

Yes. I love that and saying to the teenager, you know, because sometimes I they say what, and what's wrong with me? You say you're a teenager, it's okay. It's okay. stopping them from panicking about it. You know, what kind of person are they turning into? Parents desperately want their kids to be happy. So the big question is, at what point do we literally have to step in? Do we actually have to do something? You know, is it depressed? Is it is it moodiness or is it depression? Yeah, so you could call there's a fantastic on it's healthcare. I'll put all these links in the podcast at health care. utah.edu. I looked up. And there's a Dr. Thomas Conover, who's a child and adolescent psychiatrist who's taking care of teens with them without depression. And so he was asked, well, what, how do you know? And he said, there are key questions I will ask on nebulous assume anything when they come to me, because there are lots of cover up behavior. But he said, first of all, how long has this moodiness been going on? So my kid is coming home and they're solid, and they go and sit in their room? They didn't come down? You know, what's going on? How long? Had they been like this? Has it been consistent day after day after day? How severe is it? So is it just moodiness and irritability? Are we talking about something that looks much darker? Where they just don't want to talk about things at all? Because we get we'll get those waves of misery and Happy Days and everything but, you know, it's any when you're going interseeded them and you're saying Are you okay? You know, do you want to talk? No, no, I don't want to talk you know, keep keep out that because at some point they may be ready to talk. And is that use functioning? So are they were they normally someone who liked going out playing cricket? Were they somebody who used to meet up with their mates? And then none of that is happening? Are they eating? What has have they changed their normal functioning so knowing what your teenagers normal is, can be helpful here, but it's an it's those three are, you know, a little bit of a flag. It's very, very important to keep an eye on that and we don't don't hesitate to get professional help if you're genuinely worried. Contact the GP early.

Susie Asli: 43:42

Yeah, I think social media can also be helpful in that and the respect that you can kind of hear what your kids are doing and that's the plus of it. And I found my eldest had a horrible backache in lockdown and I thought well Korea hope is your right because that's horrible to have chronic pain every day and not be able to go out and all of those things and but then I could hear you know, on social media or gaming what he was doing he was having a great time so a

Rachel Richards: 44:08

lot of his friends it's just me it's just

Susie Asli: 44:10

me which is fine. Yeah, so yeah, because I'm making him do physio every day but he's okay and yeah and though their window of what their what their norm is, but that does change doesn't it for teenagers anyway but and also I don't know we can we can change our energy and if they respond to that they usually do don't they like if you I don't know can be bit silly in our house. Like if you put on music and mucking about they usually they'll they'll either join in and I kind of Mom You're so lame what you're doing kind of giggling and if they don't respond to any of that, then maybe there's you know, just keep an eye on it. Because they do they will fluctuate with you. You set the tone and they usually rise with it or fool with it.

Rachel Richards: 44:56

Yes, key emergencies are any threats of acts of sell. POM take it seriously. I mean, you may think, Oh, they're playing me. But really do you want to take that risk? No threats of acts of suicidal nature or serious aggression as well, this isn't you know, when, when there's a fine line isn't there when you're trying to give your test dose testosterone filled? Child A means of and it's not just boys girls can feel this where they need to express it. And I've got a stepdaughter who does crafts because she gets angry and she wants to be able to channel it, which is really super healthy way of channeling it. So if they are expressing a lot of aggression, you need to find with them a way of dealing with that, or get help, because they they have to these of these are things that can then end up being a real problem.

Susie Asli: 45:46

Yeah, because aggression is usually a reaction to something else. It's something else. Exactly,

Rachel Richards: 45:50

exactly. There are lots of places to get information. There's the American Academy of Pediatrics, I get these all American American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, these are websites that you can go on to you can pick through there lots of lots of information about you know what to look out for, what your child is doing, we will on another podcast, talk about self harm. And another one we'll talk about anxiety. These are all really big topics. So we didn't want to sort of

Susie Asli: 46:16

the next five hours, really, and they have lost information. Really brilliant. As long as we're not then sort of going Oh, my God, they've got everything.

Rachel Richards: 46:25

Yeah, exactly. You know, rather than the the teenager just going through teenage

Susie Asli: 46:30

you know, clinically depressed. symptoms. Yes, yeah. But yeah, the information is brilliant.

Rachel Richards: 46:36

Yes, and books, books, food for managing do to sort of unpick how you do these things if you can't, because not everyone has the money or the access in the local health center can't give you help. There are ways and actually, what's been amazing about COVID is that these problems have now become much more talked about. And there are lots of people you can reach out to online who do online therapy, not simply one July thing. Yeah. Which is very, very helpful. I would also say if they are miserable, depressed, whatever. People feel like this is intrusive, but you really need to see what they're accessing online. It's very important, because there's been a lot of talk about this. So I'm sure a lot of parents are aware, but there are and they haven't all been shut down. There are groups and sites on various social media, which are encouraged, yes, encourage people's depression, and they encouraged and they'll they may feel like they see need to self medicate. So they may started trying to turn to drugs to lift their mood. So stepping in and saying there are ways you can help your you know, if you're feeling depressed, there are things that we can do. Yeah. And I'm with you, and I want to help you if you feel that you want some help.

Susie Asli: 47:56

Yeah, absolutely. And trying to judge how to talk to our specific kids. I know we're just with my three, I mean, I can as I've said before, I can only talk about my own three, but I would approach it in a very different way with all of them. Because you know, some of them you to them are really private. So if I was to go right now, so you sit down with me. There's nothing wrong nothing. So we have to learn how to listen to our where you can leave the emotion out. So you can say oh, just you know, in other areas are talking if you're always available to listen and tune into how do they talk? Then then you already have that channel.

Rachel Richards: 48:34

So true. And so on underside, it's so interesting that I realized, as my teenagers grew up my stepdaughters that you you kind of have to find the channel that they use to communicate. So one of them if I watsapp, I'll always get a response. Well, mostly, no, actually, that's not true Blakey, but it doesn't matter. And the other one is always Facebook, for example. And that's why I'm on these social media platforms. Why went originally because I thought oh, they're on I, you know, obviously there's a way they communicate as an adult, you can't be on Snapchat, they everybody thinks you're a pervert if you're on Snapchat, I don't know 1516 So you have to find the platform where they will respond. Because sometimes they don't want to talk to you they just want to find a different way

Susie Asli: 49:16

and times of day as well. Like one of mine it's bedtime when other one it's the morning, you know, another one is if there's food involved, and he'll come that would be me, do we go Do you want to go and get some junk foods if I think something's up? Okay.

Rachel Richards: 49:32

Yeah, it's just finding those ways in and it's hard work and self care. So as a parent, you know, you don't have to respond immediately Charles moody, you know, try and check in with them and then just go away and let you know see, am I feeling stressed by this? Am I panicking thinking what's going on? You know, look for information, look for support,

Susie Asli: 49:53

whether it's Cray responding to you, yeah, that's so true. Or subconsciously they're so smart. They if you're a bit too distracted or stressed or something's going on in your life, they're gonna be like, where's mom? Where's mom? And then they don't maybe not conscious about it. They didn't know how to get a response. So Will she normally responds if I am grumpy? Shout a bit. So I'm going to do that. So it's all of that.

Rachel Richards: 50:17

All it's so complicated, right? That's why we're here. We just get this could go on forever. We all ladies going and then the teenage. Anyway, so next week, we'll look at different parenting styles like the Ice King, the hot and cold tap, and how to be a true parent. Don't wait. Yeah, it's a really fun exercise. I used to do it in parenting. So I have them to thank for it. And I'm hot and cold tap. But we'll get

Susie Asli: 50:41

to that. I don't know all the category said no.

Rachel Richards: 50:45

And then there's dealing with bullying, this time focusing more on the boys perspective. We were going into this because our last podcast about dealing with mad at navigating friendship groups and helping your child and particularly focusing on the girls has gone nuts. It's obviously a massive thing for parents, and because it's very upsetting. And I relate to that. And I think we need to let's go at it from a different angle and look at how how boys fair because they struggle with just all their own stuff. So and you can help me with that because I didn't have any bullies. But I lost my husband because he's had lots of experience. We'd love to hear from you. We can be found on Facebook and Instagram. You can email us at help at teenagers untangled.com Don't forget to subscribe and review us on places like Spotify and audible so you don't miss an episode and tell your friends. Yeah, right. You've made it to the end of this episode. If you're still in the bath, that water has probably gone cold you could get out now or maybe a little top up with a hot tap and take five more minutes just for you. Goodbye. Bye bye for now.